k4polo Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 I am not a huge Rachel player but I will probably play her some to challenge myself. I like bringing the best out of the worst. I play Zafina in Tekken. I actually will play her more.
Alex073088 Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 So how about that CS Carl matchup? Seriously. You can't rush him, you can't zone him, you can't wait for him to approach you. How does Rachel even have a shot in hell? if the loli bounces nirvanna zap him the second he moves in front of it, the loli bounces in front of carl and nirvanna so its more so zoning rather then mindless zapping. It's likely to be another 3:7... which is probably what her match up against Bang is going to look like too. Ragna and Taokaka maybe a 3.5. i think taokaka is gonna be a 7:2 honestly and seriously. rachel cannot doing anything at all what so ever to defeat her. Her against litchi is looking 7:2 also.
farranpoison Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 i think taokaka is gonna be a 7:2 honestly and seriously. rachel cannot doing anything at all what so ever to defeat her. Her against litchi is looking 7:2 also. Lrn 2 math
killionaire Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 Obviously the remaining 10% represent double downs...
choysauce Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 who's still midscreen froggable? i know i've seen taokaka get frogged in one of the nico vids. i tried against hakumen but it failed, dunno if i was just a tad bit too far.
Soniti Posted December 4, 2009 Author Posted December 4, 2009 As far as i know midscreen froggables didn't change. Tsubaki is froggable, i dunno about hazama.
Spirit Juice Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 Hazama is not froggable. Neither 2B-5B nor 3C work on him (midscreen).
Tari Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 Hazama is not froggable. Neither 2B-5B nor 3C work on him (midscreen). If any of you guys with access to the game have a chance, I was wondering if 5cdc 214a 66 3c 6d 236a would work on the midscreen non-froggable characters. Not really worth it, I don't think, but I was just curious.
kro_ Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 So I went to AI again and played about fifteen matches with Rachel. I also got to go through the majority of story mode before getting challenged. At full screen, you still have some options even though your zoning is slower. Since you can activate iris in midair, it's a little easier to retreat while keeping the opponent frightened of running into lightning. Old zoning tricks still work like shooting lobelias to chase air techs and making a pumpkin wall. The frog does not move backwards if you wind backwards. It was my mistake to jump to that conclusion since it was offscreen when it activated. Chair hits a little better horizontally. I pretty much had to rely on it much more often to get out of pressure. TK sword iris and TK pumpkin come out faster than grounded sword iris and grounded pumpkin. TK pumpkin is still significantly slower than CT pumpkin though. TK frog + wind down to recover faster still works. Escaping pressure often involved super jumping up out of the opponent's immediate reach, summoning pumpkin, and then winding 2d or 3d while double jumping to the other side of the opponent with j.b or completely away from the opponent. 5cc wallbounce is fairly useful for lengthening combos. Doing something like [5cc wallbounce > 236b > iris > frog] helps to create a defense. I find it worthless to rely on pumpkin defensively if you're right next to it. Many characters can force you to block something way too easily and make the pumpkin disappear before it actually reaches them. It moves too slow. However, it is still useful if you can manage to summon pumpkin, backdash once, and let it occupy that space between you and the opponent. I tried doing multiple 5cc wallbounces in the corner, but generally the opponent would fall too low to the ground to do another. Might need to use wind next time. Also, 5cc wallbounce seems to do forced knockdown early in a combo. I did a late 3c after they hit the ground and it still comboed. Might be useful for setting up a corner trap. I came up with this combo midscreen: [5b 5cdc frog 3c (1 hit) 236b 5cc 236b sword iris with 2 poles worth of damage] If you try to cancel the 3c otg into pumpkin and attempt to 3c the opponent again before the frog finishes hitting, the opponent will tech out. That is how slow it is to summon grounded pumpkin. When you have a pumpkin out, doing stuff like crossup j.3dc 236a is pretty effective. There is a gap between j.2c and 236a if you do not use wind. However, if you do use wind then it's nearly impossible to get punished directly for it unless you were at point blank range with the opponent. Pumpkin is useful here as soon as the blockstun from 236a wears off. Repeatedly doing crossup (or not) j.3dc 236a with pumpkin or iris to cover gaps works well for landing projectile damage quickly. The problem with this is that sometimes the pumpkin just randomly vanishes even if I didn't get hit or use it 3 times. I know the pumpkin vanishes after a set period of time. However, I do not know if that set period resets/shortens after using wind or if it is predetermined at the time of summon. This needs more testing. j.2c will combo into 236a on CH. You can wind the pumpkin forward after j.2c 236a hits and combo into it with a quick 5a or 5b. Tempest Dalia does not have startup invincibility. You must have at least 1 wind to activate it. It takes about as long as BBL to activate, but the bats move pretty fast. They seem to travel during the super freeze so it's faster than you think. It can be useful to punish opponents at a far range where you normally wouldn't be able to reach in time. You also get frame advantage on block if you have 2 or 3 winds at activation so you might be able to combo after it on hit. You can combo after it with 4 winds (king george shocks the opponent into a long untechable time similar to gold burst) very easily. Comboing after 6b CH is hard. At not even max range, I managed to combo into it by winding forward immediately and doing 5a 5b 5cdc. I had many failed attempts doing it with just 6d5b. This was against the computer. It's not something that most people can expect to hit-confirm in a real match. It might be possible to do tempest dalia after a 6b CH. I'd have to test this again. 3c9d 5b works if you activate the wind later or wind straight up. However, the damage is so bad and you leave yourself so close to the opponent after the combo that I'd generally suggest just setting down a frog after 3c instead. Random frog > BBL landing with Rachel + 3 poles did about 3500-4000 dmg. In lifebar terms, it did about as much as one of Litchi's better BnBs. Maybe some 5cc wallbounce followups will add more damage. I used lots of 236a and 6d236a to stuff approaches. Also used lots of chair to break pressure. Things that I generally avoided doing in CT because Rachel had better options are pretty important in this game. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I played a lot of Tsubaki in my remaining time at AI. I love using her. She's fast and she's both exciting to watch and play. I even managed to rack up a couple of decent win streaks toward the end of my time there. I'm fairly certain I'm going to main her in this game. I also never really felt totally outclassed against an opponent while using her. I can't say the same about Rachel. I'll keep up with Rachel stuff, but I'm not going to focus on using her anymore until Blazblue: Accent Core comes out. R.I.P.
Konton Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 TD not having invincibility is stupid as fuck.
Brotrr Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 Thanks for the detailed write up. It's like Arc Sys had a team of Rachel testers and each person said one part of her (and nothing else) needed nerfing for her to be balanced. The head guy then misunderstood the part about nerfing just one part, and nerfed it all.
Tari Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 Every summary of Rachel in the new game is 90% negative and 10% "at least this is sorta okay." :/ Thanks for the observations, though, kro.
IronTager Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 I gotta say... After watching some matches of Rachel in Continuum Shift, I must give you my sympathy... Even as a Tager player, I think what happened to Rachel is very unjust. I'm quite sure the LokeTests are Done and I'm not quite sure who didn't point out the obvious... She was obviously destroyed instead of balanced. I mean, she still has a chance of winning, but... Well, I'm very much sure you guys know what happened considering... But anyhow, I just want to point out that I'm a Tager player, and even I think what happened to Rachel was really bad, even if she does harass me with that damned frog. Anyhow, I really must sympathize with you Rachel players, people state "She's not bad, she's just not good." Well, not good is pretty much bad in Blazblue, because everyone else is pretty much good, making Rachel kind of bad now. Is it impossible to win with her? No, but is it hard as fuck now? From what I've seen, she looks like the hardest character to play now and with the least benefits. There's nerfing, and then there's rape... And Aksys has turned into a pedophile now
choysauce Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 Man, even kro is feelin the weakness comin on. I'm so sad they did this to rachel. even I'm losing all hope of sticking with her. I wish I knew who I'd wanna try out to main next. I feel so lost @.o
Soniti Posted December 4, 2009 Author Posted December 4, 2009 I think I'm just gonna try to make Tsubaki work for me or give up on BBCS entirely. Despite how much they buffed my color #4 in CS, I just can't do Rachel anymore. R.I.P. for me too =(
killionaire Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 I'm thinking of gathering up all the remaining voltaic frogs we have then sending them in a box to Arcsys.. Hopefully, the resulting electrical therapy will get into their heads how NOT to completely destroy a character.. Just gotta be sure to keep the box sealed tight. You don't wanna have one of those Snakes on a Plane situations now..
choysauce Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 I think I'm just gonna try to make Tsubaki work for me or give up on BBCS entirely. Despite how much they buffed my color #4 in CS, I just can't do Rachel anymore. R.I.P. for me too =( what would you play if you gave up on CS?
GenoWhirl Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 It's gonna feel terrible being a Litchi main with all those freaking buffs, I feel like an Arakune now Hazama and Rachel will compensate, I don't plan on giving up on that loli
KaiAskari Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 snip SJ, Soniti, kro_ ... lol. Do we have any of the higher Rachel players left on DL that intend to keep trying to main her? Methinks this forum section is gonna get pretty quiet once CS is out and about on consoles. No more combo list, no more detailed guides? ;_; e_e;;; Oh well. I guess it seems right to follow suit and go the Tsubaki route... but I'm also thinking about picking up the kitty for CS. Though I simply can't abandon Rachel on principle. =B There are quite a few live players, at least, that are gonna enjoy turning it all back around on me come CS. Haha. On a different note, I had another Rachel player trying to argue that ArkSys "can't do this to Rachel based on her power level in the story" ... -_-; I was like, you're pretty much preaching to the choir (in a sense), bro, but, uh... that argument doesn't matter two cents, and it is, ya know, kinda already done, so....
Kuuhaku Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 Uh... wuku attempts to keep trying. I'm not high level, but I want to try to sub her even if she does suck. Hazama or Carl will be my main though, and I want to mess around with Arakune.
Tari Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 Not high-level, either, but I'll try to keep maining her.... It's weird, though. Does it count as a main if you're much more likely to win matches with your sub? Not that Tsubaka has great matchups, either (yet), but still. >.>
Kuuhaku Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 She does still have more potential to get better than Rachel though. It seems like for her birthday, Arcsys gave her cancer.
choysauce Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 ima try to for a while, but i can tell i'll be switching at some point. it seems like alot of the rachel players are goin to tsubaki, wonder why that is. is it cuz she's a rushdown char? i'm considering hazama because i wear a hat like his.
Alzarath Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 *jumped ship, currently swimming towards tsubaki boat* RIP Rachel :/
Soniti Posted December 4, 2009 Author Posted December 4, 2009 ima try to for a while, but i can tell i'll be switching at some point. it seems like alot of the rachel players are goin to tsubaki, wonder why that is. is it cuz she's a rushdown char? i'm considering hazama because i wear a hat like his. Rushdown char is my main reason. Also her followups look like melty whiff cancels As far as what game I'd play instead? Probably other genres :P
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