[CS1] Rachel Info and Discussion

[Alex073088]

George...gave her best oki in the game

pumpkin... made her the safest

3c and j.2c gave her the best mixup

her dmg... Made you go FFFFFF UUUUUU occasionally

6A... lol self explanotory

Also her corner pressure can be xtremely long winded if you can get it right

it is'nt exactly the easiest thing to get out of

nuthin wrong with good oki rachel needs good oki and she gives up damage to place proper oki on her opponent, rachel is a character with short ranged slow normals, needs to manage a bar of 4 winds that only recharges every 3secs while shes on the ground, and a character who has the ruffest time getting out of pressure in the entire game.On top of other things like more damaging otg rachel specific combos, and the worst grab range in the whole game.

3c mix, plus 9d did like the amount of damage a grab would do(without the combo afterward), and the reset air combo need twos to keep the momentum for rachel.J.2c, is punishable after a 5b instant block, and can be somewhat seen on reaction. most rachels will go for this so why not block high like i always do in a situation where u think she might do it, then inorder to get the knockdown u also needed to winds for this combo also on some characters.Once j.2c is blocked once u can barrier rachel away and anything else she does will whiff completely, or u can jump away.

Nuthing wrong with having a good jump attack that has no priority and needs wind.Everyone else in the game has good jump attacks that doesnt need to be manage by wind, like bang's j.c, jin's j.b, litchi's j.b, ragna's j.c, nu's swords, arakune's shark, noels j.c, carl's j.2c j.c j.a, hakumen's unbeatable j.c,

Everyone in blazblue did alot of damage, rachel's most damage combo's were extremely situational...where the other characters in the game could do them off small pokes...if anything noel for the kinda character she is does too much damage with her bnb's.

And 6a....rachel has no dp or invunerable moves outside her astral heat while everyone else in the game does, and many many attacks come out much faster in the air to where u have to predict there airdash movement by doing the move before they get there inorder to meet there attack with 6a, the guard point might have been a bit much they should have just made it top invunerable like ragnas 6a at a certain point.6a is slower then the frames need to grab so more times then i can remember i been grabbed out of my 6a, and on the ground it does beat anything...against another rachel a poorly predicted 6a can net u a 6b counter.

And rachel corner pressure is good, i myself do LONG frog and pumpkin resets when my opponent is against the wall, i know if not spaced right u can be interepted and the opponent can escape just like anyones wall pressure, the funny thing is when rachels back is against the wall u dont hear us complaining we have the ruffest time getting out the corner, players go off on rachel when shes against the wall, infact when im mirrioring rachel and she reaches the corner and under my frog oki that she is the only character i do not fear finding away out and i go off on her and try so much shit on her that i never would do on other characters with dp's and decent long ranged attacks or teleportation. So i think its honestly fair that she can put down the pressure because she does the worst when put under it.

[Alex073088]

point im trying to make is that, it cant be broken if theres way around it, nu and arakune thers no way around there shit unless the player themselfs makes a mistake

[killionaire]

It's not broken, but still overpowered... I mean, you can still have something that can be stopped and all, but there might not be enough counters or maybe those ones have either some kind of negative consequence to them or rely on a guessing game.. Broken is the wrong term to put it... Nothing in that game was broken.. Hell yeah there were things that were overpowered...

[God_Of_Olympus]

lets go over every point you made -Rachel needs good oki- true but it doesnt change the fct that george is retardedly over powered -Rachel's wind- if you know how to play rachel right wind running out is no issue i usually have enough pretty much always -barrier blocking j2C- this move can cancel into damn anything, i've yet to be pushed out of attacking range through a barrier blocked j2c j2C is almost like having a move that comes to the ground extremely fast and you can RC it without using meter, it cancels into haever the hell you want it to making it a pain in the ass to react to anything that comes after it it prorates like nothig and is safe as hell -3C- 3C is +3 on block however it is pretty easy to iB, it's i7 and is undeniably a good mixup tool which can lead into VERY damaging combos such as a simple 3C 9D 6C j.c land BBL which will lead into her stupidly strong oki even a random 3C can just as well be canceled into oki -Rachel's most damaging combos were situational? did you even play blazblue? if 4K on average or being able to realisticly kill a character in 2 combos wasnt strong damage then you've been playing hnk too much. Rachel not having strong damage is maybe the funniest thing i've heard yet -Rachel's 6A may not be the strongest anti air but it's incredibly over powered if not on the verge of broken -also hakumen's unbeatable j.C, that's funny, you can iB that sheet and punish him BEFORE HE LANDS -Rachel's entire point of being horrid under pressure is becuase of her amazing pressure, so it does make sense that she has good pressure, but it's too good, Rachel has to iB to get out of pressure and 8 frames is a bit much also Nu has the worst defense in the game not rachel She also better than Nu if seriously fkin haven't known so if you think nu is such a whore just imagine what rachel is, -in my opinion Nu is over powered> Rachel is broken> Arakune is the most retarded thing to ever come from a fighting game i well know Rachel's over powered and pretty much broken, do i go around constantly saying it? no, mostly cause that sheets pretty well known, it's really a pain explaining his to someone who probably wont ever get it

[killionaire]

Hmm. You seem to understand quite well.. Thanks for summing up that....

[God_Of_Olympus]

Anything for you baby ~Ride the bewb

[kro_]

Rachel's 6a still has guardpoint. Check here @0:15 you can clearly hear the sound Jin's j.b makes with 6a before he gets beat out.

However, it still loses out or trades to more attacks than in CT. Might have something to do with the level of the attack and the clashing system. When the frame data gets translated, then we can be sure.

[exiled98]

i am playing CT on psp but still i gota ask , is sword of iris (air) exist in CT ? sorry if i ask at the wrong place and thx in advance

[Alex073088]

the answer is no, it doesn exist till cs, and u coulda posted your question in the discussion thread

[GenoWhirl]

Why did you burst matsu...why

[Alex073088]

lets go over every point you made

-Rachel needs good oki- true but it doesnt change the fct that george is retardedly over powered

-Rachel's wind- if you know how to play rachel right wind running out is no issue i usually have enough pretty much always

-barrier blocking j2C- this move can cancel into damn anything, i've yet to be pushed out of attacking range through a barrier blocked j2c

j2C is almost like having a move that comes to the ground extremely fast and you can RC it without using meter, it cancels into haever the hell you want it to making it a pain in the ass to react to anything that comes after it

it prorates like nothig and is safe as hell

-3C- 3C is +3 on block however it is pretty easy to iB, it's i7 and is undeniably a good mixup tool which can lead into VERY damaging combos such as a simple 3C 9D 6C j.c land BBL which will lead into her stupidly strong oki

even a random 3C can just as well be canceled into oki

-Rachel's most damaging combos were situational?

did you even play blazblue? if 4K on average or being able to realisticly kill a character in 2 combos wasnt strong damage then you've been playing hnk too much.

Rachel not having strong damage is maybe the funniest thing i've heard yet

-Rachel's 6A may not be the strongest anti air but it's incredibly over powered if not on the verge of broken

-also hakumen's unbeatable j.C, that's funny, you can iB that sheet and punish him BEFORE HE LANDS

-Rachel's entire point of being horrid under pressure is becuase of her amazing pressure, so it does make sense that she has good pressure, but it's too good,

Rachel has to iB to get out of pressure and 8 frames is a bit much

also Nu has the worst defense in the game not rachel

She also better than Nu if seriously fkin haven't known

so if you think nu is such a whore just imagine what rachel is,

-in my opinion Nu is over powered> Rachel is broken> Arakune is the most retarded thing to ever come from a fighting game

i well know Rachel's over powered and pretty much broken, do i go around constantly saying it? no, mostly cause that sheets pretty well known,

it's really a pain explaining his to someone who probably wont ever get it

Rachel's 6a still has guardpoint. Check here @0:15 you can clearly hear the sound Jin's j.b makes with 6a before he gets beat out.

However, it still loses out or trades to more attacks than in CT. Might have something to do with the level of the attack and the clashing system. When the frame data gets translated, then we can be sure.

Lets go over every point you just made, because your still not saying justifying how rachel is broken, there's nuthing wrong with having good tools, and the tools are only good with proper wind managment

Frog-i love this guy, i swear im going to hate him in cs i want him to hop around to create panic in my opponent without having to freakin wind him to make him any good...frog was good, it hit enough times on guard to help u regen atleast one bar of wind or close to it on block, and on hit u can reset him on top of your opponent for oki. however the frog certainly isnt no where near as overpowered as arakunes curse bullshit, and litchi's dp. The frog was only good for pressure/zoning/oki/regen wind/ in no way could u just set a frog out when being attack and all of a sudden u end up becoming so powerful you as the player had to make the frog once u were allowed to set it out and when placing down a frog u need a pumpkin to make sure your opponent did not gain any ground to pressure you for free. It doesnt even activate zapping right away when it reaches the opponent and u can just grab rachel and it will go away.Its one of the safest and most reliable ways of getting in without having to worry about running into bullshit, or your opponent just running away from your pressure, the frog means nuthing to nu.....

Wind-u need it for everything to get in, to combo, to zone, make the pumpkin useful, one of the greatest and funniest things about playing rachel is finding ways to restore your wind, as well as keeping the pressure on your opponent once you get momentum going if allowed. all the tools they gave her meaning pumpkin/frog/cannons/oki/her super all help in restoring her wind and u have to find a way to get all these out before your opponent gets to.If your constantly doing j.2c which why i win nearly all of my rachel mirrors and its getting blocked or punished your not regenerating a damn thing your just blowing it, and its so easy to rushdown a windless rachel.

For some reason, people dont barrier rachel midscreen thats on them, i never had an issue with rachels j2.c pressure u can clearly see when her body leaves the ground via jump cancel and block on reaction, i have been barrier to far away as well as ib and punished by dp's and hakumens drive super...so i rarely use this mix-up now and instead go for long pressure to break my opponents guard or to push them into the corner or get them to make a mistake...j.2c is not as good as you say a friend of mine(matt coma) also agrue saying that once its block u can be barrier way or punished for jump canceling j2.c into something...once again inorder to make it useful u need wind.

I cant count how many times i have baited a rachel to do j.2c so i can make them whiff and punish them after doing an air combo on them theres so many ways to deal with it when its used like that, the best is to properly space and make her whiff the landing which many high level players do and punish her. to boot u can easly dp it, cat chair it, guard point it(bang), hakumen drive counter,jin 5d, ragna can 6a it, noel is very quick on her feet to make it whiff, tager can "fist of steel it" or even spark bolt it. Though i admit it comes down pretty fast at the cost of one of four or however remaining winds and can be made safe its still very punishable, its definitley not fuckin with i-no's air special-move similar to rachels j.2c winded directly toward your opponent.

3c, is it wrong, that at the cost of another wind ur at frame advantage on block?espically when every character in the game execpt maybe for carl has moves that are plus on block that they can do without needing to use a bar? and inorder to make this combo u mentioned do-able u need 50 percentage heat and one wind bar,making the big damage u mentioned situational like i said, ur not always gonna have 50 percentage heat.And if you are doing a super on someone i would hope it would hurt, everyone elses super in the game hurts when it makes contact why is unfair that rachels does damage too?(the extra rods are also situtional u will not catch your opponent with two or three rods plus rachel in every super situation)

Her damage, let me first say that every character in that game can kill you in two combos period, is it broken that rachel can do the same but has to need wind inorder to match there damage? while everyone else in the game just needs to land a hit on you? and please tell me a combo that i can do without meter that will do 4k of damage on noel, jin,and tager that i can do whenever i land a hit and need nuthing else...i really would appreciate that

6a, im done with this, you said so your self its not the strongest anti-air...im gonna leave it at. theres nuthing wrong with something being good and theres a ton of ways around her 6a.

when i said on defense i wasnt talking about health, i was talking about under pressure when it came to rachel underpressure versus nu under pressure...;it is much easier for nu to get out the corner then it is for rachel, nu's attacks come out way to fast and she can backdash mid screen out of alot of shit where rachel is stuck there,electric chair can be grabbed baited, or even clash and then your fucked. nu can just throw swords once your backed out to far and dash cancel to saftey or even pressure.she also has an invincble super, where as rachel does not...health wise rachel wins, under pressure wise nu has it better, to top that off rachel is so damn floaty u can react to her jumps so easyly.

In my opinion, you havent really proved that rachel is so broken that shes undefeatable to the point where you can get around any of the things you have mentioned, i will say the frog is good, but lets take away the frog entirely.....how do u expect to keep momentum? How would u expect to by time to regen the wind you used already doing damage, we all know at neutral game rachel gets her ass whipped.

Kro, i dont know, but it looks as though 6a just hit him before his attack came out, i was being told the guard point was removed making 6a totally hard to use now. If its still there well just have to wait and see when data does comeout

[Celcius]

Blocking 5b, j.3dc on reaction. Are you god?

[God_Of_Olympus]

Blocking 5b, j.3dc on reaction. Are you god?

apparently, and no, i didnt mean health when i was talking about defense either, Nu has the worst ->Defense<- in the game, also, eveyone in the game can win in two combo? no, Litchi is a character who needs to hit with 4 or 5 Haku-men is meter dependant, it's really like you're downplaying her too damn much, using 50% heat with rachel is HARDLY impractical are fudging serious, ifthe move is i7 AND A LOW does it really need HUGE FKIN DAMAGE, themove is mainly a mixup tool, and having both 3C and j2C makes her mixup quite retarded.

Throwinggeorge out for the sake of argument is pretty stupid, becuase she's F TIER without him, and george is unsafe for a very good reason, any good rachel will alost always get a pumpkin out at some point in her block strings or better yet already have one, which makes him entirely safe.

and also, arakune mmaybe retardedly broken but rachel is under him and above Nu, who you also seem to think is better than her, when nu is obviously not.

There's a reson people say Rachel is only broken in the hands of a good player,

And that's the same reason why everyone who doesn't know what the hell they're saying thinks Nu's the biggest whore of them all, you downplay rachel to the point where it sounds like she's not even S tier

~Ride the bewb

[Tari]

Kro, i dont know, but it looks as though 6a just hit him before his attack came out, i was being told the guard point was removed making 6a totally hard to use now. If its still there well just have to wait and see when data does comeout

Ignoring everything else.

6a still has a guardpoint or superarmor or whatever. It's only during the early part of the move.

If I'm not mistaken, this has been stated a number of times already.

[Alex073088]

apparently, and no, i didnt mean health when i was talking about defense either, Nu has the worst ->Defense<- in the game, also, eveyone in the game can win in two combo? no, Litchi is a character who needs to hit with 4 or 5 Haku-men is meter dependant, it's really like you're downplaying her too damn much, using 50% heat with rachel is HARDLY impractical are fudging serious, ifthe move is i7 AND A LOW does it really need HUGE FKIN DAMAGE, themove is mainly a mixup tool, and having both 3C and j2C makes her mixup quite retarded.

Throwinggeorge out for the sake of argument is pretty stupid, becuase she's F TIER without him, and george is unsafe for a very good reason, any good rachel will alost always get a pumpkin out at some point in her block strings or better yet already have one, which makes him entirely safe.

and also, arakune mmaybe retardedly broken but rachel is under him and above Nu, who you also seem to think is better than her, when nu is obviously not.

There's a reson people say Rachel is only broken in the hands of a good player,

And that's the same reason why everyone who doesn't know what the hell they're saying thinks Nu's the biggest whore of them all, you downplay rachel to the point where it sounds like she's not even S tier

~Ride the bewb

your right bout litchi,she does need more then one combo to kill someone, her and possibly bang...but i think they do the damage they need in cs now, which is why there s tier.You have your opinion and i have mine, i validated all my points...with them nerfing every single aspect of rachel she is now unplayable in cs, blazblue pressure and damage can be overwhelming sometimes and with a character who doesnt excel at anything at all but sucking its going to be to frustrating using her.AS well as hakumen however, his meter refills regardless of where he his rachels doesnt. and to me nu is the broken, arakuna is plain stupid while rachel is jsut a falt out good character in good hands(such as mine lol)

[God_Of_Olympus]

Since when was C tier unplayable? If thats true (which it's not) Dora must be a damn god You act like it's hard to pressure with out wind, yea you need a bar or two here and ther but no rachel constantly uses wind during block strings, not to mention i ardly ever use j2C with wind in my blockstrings, if you block confirm (did they iB Barrier or normal) then rushing seriously isnt a problem becuase i have a block string and get away for every situation i encounter for how they block Haku is much more dependant on meter than rachel, imagine if his meter filled only while on the ground, when he relies on air travel, honestly could you use you braain please? yea, that is the case in cs with rachel, she does air combos that also use wind and do crappy damage in comparison to other characters but she's not unplayable The fact that you're saying pretty much all the CT tier lists are wrong tells me you haven't reached a decency with her where you realize rachel is over powered, saying she's flat out good? No, hardly, i can't and won't let you get away with saying she's just an averagely good character and that Nu is broken let alone better than her, Rachel is better than nu has been always will be and still is If you dont think that rachel's at the least mildy over powered then most likely you aren't very good with her You're lucky i'm not as blunt as circ ~Ride the bewb

[killionaire]

Do you even know what I mean when I said that he was "blunt"? Anyway, that aside, Nu can still be played in a way that make her even more ridiculous than a highly skilled Rachel, IMO.. Not like my opinion matters. Anyway, I'd advise you to look up words used in that context before using them.. Just because it's kind of awkward when you use words like that in this fashion.. Either way, this thread is going to hell real fast.. And since SJ is lazy and Zinac probably doesn't even bother coming here anymore, if I were the guy who instigated the whole thing, I'd cool things down a bit. I might just wake them up if I get pissed off enough..

[feri]

Broke ass mixup If you block she guard crushes for FREE Can dominate and dictate the flow of a match against everyone that isnt Nu. Pumpkin makes whiffing anything absolutely safe. Moderately high damage. Long combos into baden making your wind spent practically FREE. Has guaranteed okizeme (yes it matters in this game). One of the best anti airs in the game. Can use pumpkin to force her way in with relative eaze (from the other side of the screen mind you). Edit: If you dont think Rachel isn't broken then your local Rachels are bad. Or you are judging Rachel from online experiences. For further proof just go watch (and analyze) some Jap CT matches and they'll show you how its done.

[God_Of_Olympus]

i think we can all agree rachel is broke

also Edit:

–adjective

1.having an obtuse, thick, or dull edge or point; rounded; not sharp: a blunt pencil.

2.abrupt in address or manner: a blunt, ill-timed question.

3.slow in perception or understanding; obtuse: His isolation has made him blunt about the feelings of others.

sorry, i hate when people call me out on my wordz

i meant he can be a dick about how he approaches people alot

~Ride the bewb

[Alex073088]

Since when was C tier unplayable?

If thats true (which it's not) Dora must be a damn god

You act like it's hard to pressure with out wind, yea you need a bar or two here and ther but no rachel constantly uses wind during block strings, not to mention i ardly ever use j2C with wind in my blockstrings, if you block confirm (did they iB Barrier or normal) then rushing seriously isnt a problem becuase i have a block string and get away for every situation i encounter for how they block

Haku is much more dependant on meter than rachel, imagine if his meter filled only while on the ground, when he relies on air travel, honestly could you use you braain please?

yea, that is the case in cs with rachel, she does air combos that also use wind and do crappy damage in comparison to other characters but she's not unplayable

The fact that you're saying pretty much all the CT tier lists are wrong tells me you haven't reached a decency with her where you realize rachel is over powered, saying she's flat out good? No, hardly,

i can't and won't let you get away with saying she's just an averagely good character and that Nu is broken let alone better than her, Rachel is better than nu has been always will be and still is

If you dont think that rachel's at the least mildy over powered then most likely you aren't very good with her

You're lucky i'm not as blunt as circ

~Ride the bewb

that right there still me its a waste of timing even taking anything that you write with even a bit of recognition, nu is broken dude, if there a thread posted saying who do you think the most broken character nu would get way more votes then rachel. And i dont count rachel being c tier meaning anything, shes bottom tier and shares her tier spot with no other character. Shes has no favorable match-ups, and only two even matches with arakune and hazama, the rest of the cast own her. Unplayable theres way to many matches up that shes not going to even come close to winning.

[God_Of_Olympus]

low tier isnt unplayable, and the reason nu would get the most votes is becuase all the fucking idiots and noobs who cant play bb (and we all know how many of those joined) dont know how the hell to get past her shit. i may as well post that poll on gamefaqs and i seriously hope your basing rachel in your imaginary tier based on relativity rather than the troubles you yourself have using her i'm done arguing about this ~Ride the bewb

[Alex073088]

Broke ass mixup

If you block she guard crushes for FREE

Can dominate and dictate the flow of a match against everyone that isnt Nu.

Pumpkin makes whiffing anything absolutely safe.

Moderately high damage. Long combos into baden making your wind spent practically FREE.

Has guaranteed okizeme (yes it matters in this game).

One of the best anti airs in the game.

Can use pumpkin to force her way in with relative eaze (from the other side of the screen mind you).

Edit: If you dont think Rachel isn't broken then your local Rachels are bad. Or you are judging Rachel from online experiences. For further proof just go watch (and analyze) some Jap CT matches and they'll show you how its done.

I watched jap videos of rachel players, and i have seen all the players have trouble with winning there matches, though i did see a whole bunch of rachel winning and rarely losing. i see that u mentioned what makes rachel good, i really dont feel like mention what makes the other characters in the game good and what a few characters can abuse on her*cough jin litchi nu arakune* but i wont, becuase it seems as though when u a character is good there broken.SO ill let u guys thing nu isnt broken, and that rachel is this easy godess tier of blazblue and that every character in the game has such a horrible time dealing with her. And that she never loses

Do you even know what I mean when I said that he was "blunt"?

Anyway, that aside, Nu can still be played in a way that make her even more ridiculous than a highly skilled Rachel, IMO.. Not like my opinion matters.

Anyway, I'd advise you to look up words used in that context before using them.. Just because it's kind of awkward when you use words like that in this fashion..

Either way, this thread is going to hell real fast..

And since SJ is lazy and Zinac probably doesn't even bother coming here anymore, if I were the guy who instigated the whole thing, I'd cool things down a bit.

I might just wake them up if I get pissed off enough..

well this is a rachel disscussion thread we are only discussing our opinions on rachel. We shouldnt have to fear the moderators. Also i like to think of rachel as blazblue's testament ^.^ btw the person who started was the one who claimed rachel was quite broken after i felt a though she wasnt

[God_Of_Olympus]

easy? no, i guess we are just discussing opinions, i said it before and i said it again, rachel is only broken in the hands of someone good ok so lets go from what you were going to do, LITCHI HAS ZOMG OKI, yes but rachel's it better, TAGER HAS ZOMG DAMAGE, yea but evryone can keep him out HAKU MANZ METER REFILLZ ALL THE TIME yes but withoutmany stars his damge is complete ass, and he needs them bad i really dont feel like arguing this anymore, anyone with a half functioning brain knows why she's broken

[XvKissBlade]

low tier isnt unplayable, and the reason nu would get the most votes is becuase all the fucking idiots and noobs who cant play bb (and we all know how many of those joined) dont know how the hell to get past her shit.

~Ride the bewb

You're really underestimating Nu's prowess in CT.

[God_Of_Olympus]

she's not the best character, she the worst of the top 3, and anyone who thinks she's lol hax needs to gtfo out of this forum now ~Ride the bewb