[CS1] Carl Clover Tactical Discussion/Questions/Help

[soujiro seta]

Is there any way that the combo threads could be formatted differently? I am looking for combos to try out to try and find what works best for me but it is literally reading through walls and walls of unformatted, unbolded, unseparated text. It's REALLY hard to find anything, and I assume it would be hard for other people who want to pick up Carl as well. I mean, the first post of the Carl Combos thread is basically just a few solo Carl combos and then a dissertation about the 2D loop, which, while useful, doesn't really consolidate combos, and the thought of having to read through pages upon pages of threads to find combos is really daunting.

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this, but I didn't want to make a new thread for it and it seemed relevant (since this thread itself is over 100 pages long, and some of it is CS speculation/loketest info.)

It's very hard, if not impossible, to do a carl combo thread. That's why till this day we still don't have one, but rather we just post combos everynow and then. There are many factors that go into his combos. What was your combo starter (CH Brio, anima, fuoco, 2b, 3C, 4D,.....), what do you want to include in your combo (volante, brio, 4D, 2D), the vertical spacing from ground and horizontal spacing from nirvana, how much meter nirvana has left, is nirvana recovering from a move while you're comboing with carl, the combo count which will determine what will connect, the position (NOC, OCN, wall-CON, wall-NOC, wall-OCN) etc. Add that to the fact that you can also link his combos into resets, drop a combo to put you in a better spot for an unblockable on your opponents wakeup, etc

You see all these things have to be taken into consideration. You could create so many combos from all those possiblities, and it's very tough to do. There is no absolute combo that you must do when something connects. Thats the thing about carl, his entire gameplan (combos/strats/reset) are really freestyled. It's easier to post strategies and resets, cause those are more straight forward so to speak, but even then there is no absolute strat/reset that you'll use when a certan scenario happens. You could have always done something else. Like when I created the reset/strat thread I didn't expect there to be so much, but it's insane how many resets and strats he has. I mean there are a lot of strats and resets that have been posted in this thread as well that aren't in that thread, and I even have some stuff that I haven't posted yet due to lazyness. A combo thread would take far much longer than the reset/strat thread or any thread in this forum so far cause you can branch out into so much stuff.

I would suggest just watching videos, playing and practicing carl, and better understanding how he works. Eventually you'll know what combos will work and what you want to get out of every situation, more damage/better oki/unblockable/attempt a reset/crossup/etc.

[soujiro seta]

Here's my current to-do list:

-List all of the character specific ground loops in the combo thread and the match-up threads.

-Make character specific ground comb video

-Make set-up video for mix-ups/UB's

-Make tech trap videos for KD's. (Still needs contribution)

-Break down launched combo section detailing max dmg & 8]D[, Fermata enders.

I should have the first (3) done within a week. The next few things, will come afterward.

^^^^lol, see what I mean Ike, or any other new comer wondering why we don't have a combo thread, It takes so long to create these things cause there are so many possibilities. We're having enough trouble trying to update what we currently have, talk less of a creating a combo thread. Are they crouching or standing, character's vertical/horizontal hitbox, etc.

[Kyle]

A very solid point I did not mention. Soujira resets! The best oki/resets come from a grounded opponent. Crouching & standing. A launched opponent is much harder to get consistent dmg mix-up as they have more options.

Something else I have been working on is midscreen BnB's which end in corner Cantata UB resets. This is far superior to a 8]D[ KD with a shitty BB oki.

[Isuyaru]

Corner meterless oki idea

8D knockdown, CNO positioning

Wait to see if the opponent emergency techs (this is the immediate neutral tech upon hitting the ground). If they don't, do 3]D[-3C-tap 9. If they neutral teched, 3D hits meaty and you can start pressure (you don't jump since 3C whiffed). If they did anything else (quick getup, forward/backward roll, or nothing at all), combo into j.B dj.2C j.214C 8D j.2C j.214C 8D for over 3k and back into the same situation.

Basically, this is a meterless way to force the opponent to stay in the corner or take a nice chunk of damage for trying to get out. I did the testing with the training dummy as another Carl, I'll try on more characters some time later and try to put a video up if there's interest.

Edit: 3D doesn't hit twice on all characters, which makes j.B whiff. Followup combo should start with j.2C j.C dj.2C allecan 8D (this was only tested on Hazama so far).

3C 3D j.2C j.C dj.2C allecan 8D j.2C j.C 2D j.2C allegretto 8D cantata 8D = 5.1k

[ZONG_one]

Sounds like a decent idea.

[TGS]

j.2C may not be an overhead, but j.2C RC j.A is!

[ZONG_one]

You may be right about that.

I don't know if i'd use 50 meter for like 2.3k max damage though.

[Mascarpone]

Worth noting:

wide NOC positioning CH 623]D[ is a lovely juggle starter.

if you're closer you can just jump up and get them with a j.2c allegreto, farther a 5C j.B allegreto 8D seems to work..

and if it hits them lower to the ground it looks like u need the IAD j.2C alle~can 5C blah blah launch.

lots of editing for accuracy and stuff...

[Mr Oso]

^^^^Agreez

How in fucks name do you beat score attack with lil ole carl..........Hakumen is just a pain in the ass to fight.

[ZONG_one]

Worth noting:

wide NOC positioning CH 623]D[ is a lovely juggle starter.

if you're closer you can just jump up and get them, father a 5C j.B allegreto 8D seems to work..

and if it hits them lower to the ground it looks like u need the IAD j.2C alle~can 5C blah blah launch.

Indeed it is good, I'll look for this Kyaku vid I saw a while back. He got like 6k from it or something.

^^^^Agreez

How in fucks name do you beat score attack with lil ole carl..........Hakumen is just a pain in the ass to fight.

Score attack is FRAAAYYYYY. Especially hakumen. He likes to IAD at you all day. Just 6A that shit. Your offense is going to make you kill yourself, given how broken Score Attack yomi is.

[Kyle]

We need to finishing updating all this shit before CS2.0 is announced/released. >_>

[ZONG_one]

Let's not even think about 2.0 yet.

[Akira-Shiro]

Score attack is FRAAAYYYYY. Especially hakumen. He likes to IAD at you all day. Just 6A that shit. Your offense is going to make you kill yourself, given how broken Score Attack yomi is.

When i try this he some how manages to counter at the right time every time -.- & if i try to jump an grab he uses Tsubaki to F-me up. I dont even wana think about hazama i hope the update fixes the score attack difficulty

[ZONG_one]

Haha. Score attack will always be hard, in comparison to Arcade mode. :]

[Mr Oso]

^^^^

Sadly this is true

(Thats why they have unlim. chars for purchase)

[ikeTATARI]

I didn't mean to sound accusatory or impatient with my previous post, it just felt like the current threads (until some edits =D) were really unfriendly to people just picking up Carl. Case in point: I saw someone mention a "summon combo", spent almost an hour browsing the threads trying to find the full notation for one, and couldn't, so I gave up. Even just a few simple combos that you can use as starting points until you're more comfortable with how Carl's moves link would be nice.

And I am completely willing to contribute, but since my execution isn't really up to snuff all I'd be able to help with would be compiling things that are already posted - and since I can't test them, unless damage/etc was posted with them I wouldn't even be able to help with that.

[dgowen]

I feel like score attack is a lot harder in CS then it was in CT... I beat score attack with Bang in CT, haha.

Right now I'm completely stuck on Litchi... but I won't flood the board trying to discuss how to beat the psychic computer :-P

I am trying to prep my Carl skills by playing through Score Attack first before heading online. Is this a good idea?

After 5 days (for ~1hr each day of playing) I finally got Challenge 8 done, which I think it holds a key concept for understanding how to play Carl in this game... so I'm proud of advancing my skills...

Right now the combo I use most is: 2A, 5B, 2B, 5C, 6D, 5B, 6B, 623C, 5B, 2D hits... and then I screw up the rest generally, but I'd like to hit a 2C, 8D, j.2C, j.5C, 2D etc etc

I really respect you guys with the extreme dexterity to pull off these combos... it's most impressive. I'll keep working and hopefully at least be competent with Carl one of these days.

[Akira-Shiro]

Haha. Score attack will always be hard, in comparison to Arcade mode. :]

Lol its only cause as soon as we press the button the game recognizes this then choses how to counter-act it....... thats why is u spam 5a Jin will do Gale from across the field.

[TGS]

You may be right about that.

I don't know if i'd use 50 meter for like 2.3k max damage though.

Just for shits and giggles, I messed around with j.2C RC shenanigans in training mode and found some interesting things.

- j.2C RC j.A is his fastest overhead off of a blocked j.2C RC, but the damage gets prorated if the j.A is the first hit of the combo and you go straight into basic ground sandwich loop, which nets you about 2.3k or so. However, if you transition into Clap/Volante/Ground Pound loop instead (i.e. j.2C RC (blocked) j.A, 5B, 2B, 3C, Teleport Nirvana, IAD j.2C Allecan blah blah blah), you can easily reach 3k damage or so. If the j.2C was the first hit instead, you can get close to 4k or so. Also, in order to get the j.A to hit, you need to hit the j.2C close to directly on top of the opponent.

- If you want a double overhead after a j.2C, you can do j.2C RC AD j.B, j.C, land, blah blah blah. You just need to learn the timing for the airdash after you RC the j.2C so you won't go sailing over your opponent's head if they were crouching, but still fast enough so that the AD j.B combos even if the j.2C hits (yes, it does work). The spacing for this, however, is nothing like the one for j.2C RC j.A, as you will need to hit the outer edge of the opponent's sprite as much as possible so your AD will be low to the ground pushing against the opponent as opposed to sailing over the top.

[Akira-Shiro]

Hey when is the best time to input volante during 2D loop ?.? iv been hearing it does more damage then j.2C J.C

[Zoogstin]

Generally its good to do it when the combo is around 11 hits or less. This completely depends on what move you started with when you began the combo. Forget about using volante if you've already used an A attack (especially if that was your first move) due to hitstun proration. You would do a volante combo after an 8D or 2D as the opponent is coming down. If nirvana has recovered from either one of those moves you can do 5C - volante. If Nirvana is still recovering from her last move you'll wanna do j.2C allecan - 5C - volante.

[Zoogstin]

I didn't mean to sound accusatory or impatient with my previous post, it just felt like the current threads (until some edits =D) were really unfriendly to people just picking up Carl. Case in point: I saw someone mention a "summon combo", spent almost an hour browsing the threads trying to find the full notation for one, and couldn't, so I gave up. Even just a few simple combos that you can use as starting points until you're more comfortable with how Carl's moves link would be nice.

And I am completely willing to contribute, but since my execution isn't really up to snuff all I'd be able to help with would be compiling things that are already posted - and since I can't test them, unless damage/etc was posted with them I wouldn't even be able to help with that.

Well if anything, you're right that he summon combo should clearly be labeled in the combo thread. The combo (albeit no ender) actually is posted in the first post of the combo thread but I understand that it may not be easily seen. In case you or anybody else wants to know it what I do is:

2A 2B 3C 22D IAD j.2C allecan j.B j.C 8D j.2C/D j.C *2D hits* j.2C 2147C/D

Kyle or Zong, if you would be so kind as to put this in bold near the beginning of the first post of the combo thread I think this would help people out a lot. (in bold i think)

[Akira-Shiro]

Lol if i were to try J.2C>5C>volante when do i input volante ?.?

[njmamm]

hey what're the benefits of charging 6C in a combo, if any (besides damage, I think?)? Better proration? Increased untechable time? I'm curious cuz I saw it used in a juggle combo.

[soujiro seta]

Lol if i were to try J.2C>5C>volante when do i input volante ?.?

You have to do the j.2C allecan when your opponent it really low to the ground, like right before they hit the floor. It's pretty much an instanct j.2C allecan. Once the instant j.2C connects and you land, press 5C. Before 5C comes out and connects input volante. Don't rush it too fast or you'll most likely get 2C Volante. Do not do volante after 5C hit, it won't connect. When you press 5C, input volante a fraction of a second later. It will almost feel like you did both of them at the same time. You want to do 5C and volante so close to each other. If not 5C will connect but your opponent will be able to tech before volante hits. You also have to get the instant j.2C allecan when your opponent is about to hit the ground, this is the most crucial part.

Hope that helps

hey what're the benefits of charging 6C in a combo, if any (besides damage, I think?)? Better proration? Increased untechable time? I'm curious cuz I saw it used in a juggle combo.

6C fully charged is unblockable, and has a base damage of 1000. 6C not fully charge is 550, iirc. No matter how long you charge 6C as long as it's not fully charged then it will always deal 550 damage. The only way you'll get 1000 is if it's fully charged.

The untechable time for a fully charged 6c is slightly longer than a normal 6c iirc, someone plz correct me if I'm wrong.

It depends on what you want. You can use 6c to help nirvana recover faster from a move, such as after your opponent gets hit by fuoco. If you don't want to use 5a/2a to help her recover after fuoco connect because of proration, 6c 5b 2b 5c 6d can work as a replacement and net you better damage.

Or during a blockstring you can use 6c RC 2b. So your opponent has to block high and then instantly block low. Since j.2C allecan isn't an overhead anymore, this works as a substitute.

Or you can use 6C as reset. In the NOC position after a hit confirm, you can 6C, walk up, instant j.2C]D[ j.C. Your opponent gets crossed up by the j.C, which combos into the 2D.

Those are just examples of what you can use 6c for. Now if you're talking about a fully charged 6C. Those are usually only used like during rhapsody of memories, or when you have your opponent in the corner you can do gear super RC dash 6C fully charged. To hit someone with a fully charge 6C they'll have to have something keeping them still, so to speak.