General Gameplay Questions Thread - POST YOUR GAMEPLAY QUESTIONS HERE

[beatsofdevil]

Uh, no, turtling is used extensively by a large part of the cast. Turtling is the act of making attacking a mistake... it baits the other person into trying to come to you, but punishes them for doing so. Sitting still and blocking all day isn't turtling, that's asking to lose.

Good examples are Sol doing Run Forward > Jump > Back Dash > j.H. Enemies who try to follow after him find it very difficult because of the j.H's hit box.

Baiken turtles similarly, by moving forward and then moving back quickly with a Tatami. If the other person tries to move in, the Tatami stops them. Proper turtling knows when and where to throw them out to make it as difficult as possible for the other person to get in.

Axl also frequently turtles because his pokes reach across the whole screen. Venom turtles against some characters because it can be easier to play keep away than get in himself. RoboKy turtles because he can build meter without attacking. Slayer can turtle because he's totally invincible. Potemkin can turtle because his pokes are insane and will stuff things from all angles. He also can BD through half of anything, and his PB is the fastest, longest reaching, and most powerful command throw in the game.

Examples of Turtling in history would be Guile. He can sit back and throw Sonic Booms at you, thus still having an offense, while still charging in preperation for a Flash Kick. Meaning that if you try to jump at him, he hits you. If you stay away, you have to contend with his projectiles. Hence the effectiveness of the turtling stratagy.

Cable is one of the most effective turtles ever, as his attacks hit from full screen, lead into big damage, and are safe. There is no reason for him to attack you directly because it's nowhere near as safe or effective.

It's obviously not a good idea to rely entirely on it, because often a direct mixup has better damage output and a more effective mixup, but it's not always feasable to be able to get into that situation (such as when your character has no decent way to 'get in'). That's why typically in GG you see situations where characters are at neutral (nobody is really attacking) and instead just throwing random pokes or projectiles that are totally safe. When someone actually does connect something, the match swings into full Offense VS Defense as long as the attacker can maintain his momentum. It can switch quickly back and forth between the two, or return back to neutral.

For the most part, I would say trying to rush someone down from neutral is far worse than turtling. If both players are at neutral and you attack the other person, he can often just pick his move that approprietly beats yours. It's like playing P>R>S but one player can see the other's move ahead of time.

actually you're starting to mention more of keepaway and zoning than actual turtling....turtling is much more defensive than that....cable is throwing out a lot of shit to keepaway and zone, that's not turtling.

turling does have some keepaway and zoning, but like originally said...is much more defensive and involves more blocking.

[MacArthur Blunts]

I define turtling as when you use your advantage to re-posistion yourself instead of using your advantage to pressure. A turtles goal is to simply keep their lifebar higher than yours and winning by the time going out is the best way to win by turtling.

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

actually you're starting to mention more of keepaway and zoning than actual turtling....turtling is much more defensive than that....cable is throwing out a lot of shit to keepaway and zone, that's not turtling.

turling does have some keepaway and zoning, but like originally said...is much more defensive and involves more blocking.

Well that was an ancient post but yeah I agree with you now anyway. I would see Turtling more as the 'just chill and block' type and 'zoning' and 'keepaway' as more the Guile or Venom type.

[040488]

I know that Instant blocking reduces guard stun, but by how much? Does FD increase it? If so buy how much? Edit: Roman cancel has been dead for awhile. Is the material stored away anywhere? I couldnt find anything on the way back machine.

[rtl42]

Level                1          2          3          4          5 

Standing Hit        10         12         14         17         19

Crouching Hit       10         13         15         18         20 

Ground CH           +0         +2         +4         +8        +12

Ground IB            7          8         10         12         15

Ground Block         9         11         13         16         18

Ground FD           11         13         16         19         21

Air IB               4          6          8         10         12

Air Block           10         12         14         17         23 

Air FD              12         15         18         24         27

Air CH              +6         +9        +16        +18        +??

Got this from history21.client.jp/actuujou.html , except for the Air CH row (which is missing for some reason); the Air CH row is from GameCombos. GameCombos data is off by one frame for blockstun values, I think.

[040488]

Am I looking at a chart that tells how many frames an attack puts a char. in blockstun/hitstun based of

its level and what sort of block the char used, and that also tells how many more frames of stun a base "vanilla" attack will stun for if a char. is counter-hit? If, so, thanks man! Good find.

What did you look for to find something like this? I didnt know the games stuns where based of level and not individual attacks attributes.

[Caer-caveral]

Level                1          2          3          4          5 

Standing Hit        10         12         14         17         19

Crouching Hit       10         13         15         18         20 

Ground CH           +0         +2         +4         +8        +12

Ground IB            7          8         10         12         15

Ground Block         9         11         13         16         18

Ground FD           11         13         15         18         20

Air IB               3          5          7         9          11

Air Block            9         11         13         16         19 

Air FD              11         14         17         20         23


(Air CH              20         26        32        40        48)

Some of them were a bit off, but this should be correct. It's straight from the Slash guide.

The only thing I'm not sure of is air Ch. I took the values from the AC Break encyclopedia, but they've got a weird format there so I'm not 100% sure on how to read it.

[rtl42]

huh, weird, ground stun frames match up but the air stun frames don't... plus, that Air CH row is totally different from the XX stuff we had back at GameCombos... by the way, what does the AC guide say -- same as the Slash guide?

this is another thing that we should definitely have in the DustLoop frame data section (if we haven't already planned to include it).

[Vyze]

this is another thing that we should definitely have in the DustLoop frame data section (if we haven't already planned to include it).

Someone could always just start a Guilty Gear Wiki that could be instantly updated whenever any kind folk finds new information.

[Hatred Edge]

Question: Stagger

...I suck at getting out of stagger. Is the input 4 6 only or can I just shake in whatever direction?

Let's say I-no does Stroke the Big Tree, it's causes stagger then she does her OD. Can I mash out stagger DURING super freeze?

[4r5]

you can mash during super freeze.

dunno if the game will accept other directions

[fragile]

after how many frames can I throw wake up someone

e.g knockdown-> HF break -> potbuster

how many frames should I wait before I execute the potbuster?

[POscrub]

Rtl42 found it on history 21.

After blocking, getting hit, or after getting up, opponent is invincible to throws for the first x frames they can be hit.

As follows:

On block: 5 frames.

On hit: 6 frames.

Getting up: 9 frames.

Tick buster leaves a smaller gap than straight up wakeup buster. But hey, you can catch people cheating sometimes

[EnvyHax]

I've got a question. How the hell do you guys IAD to the right (going from left to right...) with a jap stick? I just seem to do it unless I do 3696 but it leaves me superjumping and it just retarded.

I can IAD to the left (right to left...) easily by just using my thumb.But I can't get the IAD from right to left...

Any pointers? SUch as what fingers do you use? I have my stick setup so that it's shaft is between my middle and ring finger.

[fragile]

Tick buster leaves a smaller gap than straight up wakeup buster. But hey, you can catch people cheating sometimes

Do you mean that by doing for example p->buster is easier and they have less frames they cannot be thrown? or maybe I misunderstood ya?

[rtl42]

I've got a question. How the hell do you guys IAD to the right (going from left to right...) with a jap stick? I just seem to do it unless I do 3696 but it leaves me superjumping and it just retarded.

I can IAD to the left (right to left...) easily by just using my thumb.But I can't get the IAD from right to left...

Any pointers? SUch as what fingers do you use? I have my stick setup so that it's shaft is between my middle and ring finger.

676 works with some characters (definitely Baiken, I think Millia and Jam, too; others with similarly short enough jump activation frames); in my experience, i can only do 956 with other characters. it takes some getting used to, but it's quite slick, once you get it (imho).

[freelander]

what does mean option select airthrow?

thx in advance

[Hellmonkey]

what does mean option select airthrow?

thx in advance

you press and hold 4HS and then immediately press S in reload/XX and it will try to throw with HS but then cancel into faultless defense, it's called option select because it will either do one or the other.

[freelander]

it seems very safe

thx

[040488]

Is there a such thing as a hittable only area? There is a character during burst, in which they can only be thrown. There is the normal state, in which a char can be hit/thrown. Are there any states where a char can only be hit?

[Teyah]

During bursts, you shouldn't think of it as 'they can only be thrown', but more like they have invincibility to strikes.

Same goes for what you're asking about - which is commonly referred to as 'throw invincibility'. Examples of this include when leaving blockstun, hitstun, and when getting up. Various normals/specials/supers also have invincibility to throws. (See framedata to find out which)

[CJay]

Anything that is throw invincible but not strike invincible.

[Slavi]

How can i air dash forward with Ky after 236HS,RC?

How do people air dash twice(backwards and than forward)while in the air?

I am trying to do it in XX#R. Is there any particular difference?

[rtl42]

1) you can't RC stun edge. do you mean Vapour Thrust (623H)? To do that, you need to perform a jump install, either by jump installing a move that preceds VT in a combo, or by self-JIing VT.

2) Justice, Millia and Dizzy can inherently airdash twice (Justice can do it thrice!). Other characters can only do it while in the first ... 30-ish (someone help me out here...) frames of the homing jump following a dust. There are some really funky combos that you can do with that, you see some of that stuff in old #R combo vids.

[Teyah]

1) I think he means air H Stun Edge - in AC, the FRC point has shifted to just after its release, so you can airdash right after it to keep up the pressure.

In #R and Slash, you can still airdash after air Stun Edges.. you just have to wait until the animation is over. By that time you'll be very close to the ground though, so it's not nearly as useful.

Edit: nvm, he probably did mean VT