[CS1] Bang Discussion and Question Thread

[BigLeafyTree]

I was thinking about ways to land an astral and I was hoping someone with CS access could test them.

- Make them block a B nail off an air tech then astral

- Make them block a B nail standing then astral (lol Tager)

- C nail (CH?) then astral (air/ground)

- Air throw then astral before the kick (high/low and midscreen/wall)

- Ground throw then astral before the kick

- Ground throw then C nail then astral in the corner

Did gold burst > astral end up being legit?

[huey253]

ahhh good luck on 2D j4c, it probably possible but man its hard, i tried it a couple times.

if i had daily access i would grind it too but yeah thanks again and good luck :D

[Dacidbro]

The Cnail ones aren't going to work at all, Bnail to air tech probably works as a really hard to set up trap sometimes, making them block a Bnail standing might make it fuzzy guard, interesting point, and I don't know about the throw ones. Gold burst astral does not work, IIRC

[10stars]

Ground throw > astral before kick works as a tech trap - it will ONLY hit majority of the cast if they tech the crumble effect of the throw. Otherwise - they fall to the ground and the astral whiffs.

Tager however gets hit by it cause he's too damn big. However - he can tech and gold burst to get out of it.

In the corner ground throw > kick > astral off the wall bounce is a legit astral though.

[BigLeafyTree]

Delicious flashy astral combos and traps. First thing I do in training when CS comes out is figure out ways to land B nails so I can astral them.

[Zevali]

5A/j.C/j.4B 5B 2B 2C 632146D 5D j.D 2B 623B 5D

Is this a good combo to use if I FRKZ in the middle? I've been able to get to the last 5D in this combo and I haven't been able to do much afterward (due to my lack of experience with FRKZ, I think I can do more.). The damage was about 3.5k if I remember correctly. Does FRKZ increase untechable time for all the hits?

[huey253]

uhh, you could get 3.5k with an extremely similar combo and no heat,

if you want to combo into FRKZ, do it asap otherwise the damage increase won't matter that much.

i believe frkz adds one frame of untechable time..

[Reioumu]

honestly, you can use FRKZ in between any attack you want. I prefer to use it in neutral/wakeup.

Also, Ground throw -> Astral is legit. (as said awhile ago in the other topic and by the Japanese)

[Zevali]

honestly, you can use FRKZ in between any attack you want. I prefer to use it in neutral/wakeup.

Also, Ground throw -> Astral is legit. (as said awhile ago in the other topic and by the Japanese)

Do you have to cancel the astral into the throw kick like you had to cancel into the fire punch in CT? The timing, I mean. I can't seem to get it down. And... it only works in the corner or anywhere on the screen?

[kilabeep3]

Do you have to cancel the astral into the throw kick like you had to cancel into the fire punch in CT? The timing, I mean. I can't seem to get it down. And... it only works in the corner or anywhere on the screen?

just buffer a 720 (clockwise if facing right, counter clockwise if facing left) when you see the poof of clouds off his throw. just wait and watch for the very first frame the kick hits.

if you pulled it off right they will bounce off the wall into the astral.

timing is stricter than the throw into firepunch. so be careful.

just practice doing it in the corner.

and AFAIK you can delay a lil bit with tager since he is HUUGE.

[zeth07]

IMO this is probably THE combo to know for FRKZ.

n-d = number-dash

5B 2B 2C 6-d 5D 9-d j.4C 9-d j.4C 9-d j.4C 2B 623B 5D 9-d j.4C (6-d or 9-d cancels) j.D 2-d 5C 2C 6-d 236236D

Does 5578. This is guaranteed due to the startup before 236236D nets you 51 heat

Testing if you can do it with a j.C starter

the 2B 623B don't connect if you start with j.C so you need to omit one 9-d j.4C before hand and do 2-d 2B 623B for things to connect. j.C gives 2 meter while j.4C gives 3, so you'll still have 50 meter if you start with j.C and omit one of the j.4Cs.

Could have been a lot worse than just omitting one j4C, 5A prorates a good bit worse than 5B

Also, is the reasoning behind using Ashura really sound? You burn 50 heat that could be used for epic mixup or in the next combo a massive damage daifunka, or if CA can be used with barrier, there's CERTAINLY reason not to; Just to add 500ish damage and put yourself at negative frames instead of oki!

I dunno, personally it doesn't sit well with me. If I'm missing something hook it up, yo

My thoughts:

Considering that is a FRKZ combo you have to take some things into consideration-

1) How many combos did it take you to get 4 Seals + 50% Heat for FRKZ?

2) How much health do they still have left?

1 - Even if you manage a 4 seal early, you probably aren't close to 50% heat. So let's just say hypothetical you will get 4 seals + 50% heat at 2 combos. That is easily 6k in damage already.

2 - Considering #1, if you hit them with said combo, the majority of the cast will probably be dead or borderline dead after it. So why not end with a combo that is flashy as hell and probably demoralizing.

*3 - I thought someone mentioned something about Bang being invincible during the recovery of Ashura landing for at least a few frames. So even though you might not get oki, I don't necessarily think you are in danger. Especially if they are practically dead and scared at that point.

At least that is my thought process when considering that combo.

[Dacidbro]

2 - Considering #1, if you hit them with said combo, the majority of the cast will probably be dead or borderline dead after it. So why not end with a combo that is flashy as hell and probably demoralizing.

*3 - I thought someone mentioned something about Bang being invincible during the recovery of Ashura landing for at least a few frames. So even though you might not get oki, I don't necessarily think you are in danger. Especially if they are practically dead and scared at that point.

At least that is my thought process when considering that combo.

First one makes sense;

2 - If they're borderline dead, take the oki, because;

3 - When you use Ashura, you are put negative enough for any opponent to hit you the very first frame you become active. You can counteract this by reversal supering or perfect 6Ding, but otherwise you're stuck blocking since FRKZ Bang has no invincibility on BD. And getting stuck blocking instead of walking all over them with speed and mobility is a horrible choice to make.

[BigLeafyTree]

This came up in the General forum and I wanted to talk it out here.

How could FRKZ be made better?

Right now I think it's clear that it's a high risk move, with a medium reward at best. One change I could see happening is taking away the Counter Hit status of the dash. Right now if you are hit during your dash at any time, it's a CH. Taking it away lowers the risk part of using it somewhat.

[Reioumu]

First one makes sense;

2 - If they're borderline dead, take the oki, because;

3 - When you use Ashura, you are put negative enough for any opponent to hit you the very first frame you become active. You can counteract this by reversal supering or perfect 6Ding, but otherwise you're stuck blocking since FRKZ Bang has no invincibility on BD. And getting stuck blocking instead of walking all over them with speed and mobility is a horrible choice to make.

Hold 1AB and then do 4 really quickly. IB 4-dash out = out of jail free card. If they delay you still get out, if they do it instantly, you get IB 4-dash.

[Dacidbro]

BLT, as is, it's perfect. The reward really is pretty gigantic, but the risk is of course massive. Using FRKZ right now has just the right amount of risk for how much damage you can do, especially since it's without meter. Also, it's fast, and most people are unprepared for it.

Rei, I would rather be on advantage than be stuck in block hoping their move doesn't have blockstun, just for 500 damage, that's my point. o:

[BigLeafyTree]

I'm more interested in how it could be made better, rather than if it should.

Bang is arguably the strongest character in CS and it's reasonable to assume that in the next version of BB (whether it's a balance patch or next game) he'll be toned down. One of the ways they could do this is make him weaker outside of FRKZ and make FRKZ stronger so he depends on using it. I want to know how FRKZ could be made better.

Some changes they could make off the top of my head:

• Make 6B and 3C dash cancellable
  
• Remove CH status from his dashes
  
• Give him a way to stop his dash without throwing out an attack
  
• Allow more air dashes
  
• Allow him to throw nails while dashing (like in CT)
  
• Make the dash require an input so he can run & jump as usual and block in FRKZ
  
• Give him FRKZ-only attacks
  

[DaiAndOh]

I'm more interested in how it could be made better, rather than if it should.

Bang is arguably the strongest character in CS and it's reasonable to assume that in the next version of BB (whether it's a balance patch or next game) he'll be toned down. One of the ways they could do this is make him weaker outside of FRKZ and make FRKZ stronger so he depends on using it. I want to know how FRKZ could be made better.

Some changes they could make off the top of my head:

• Make 6B and 3C dash cancellable
  
• Remove CH status from his dashes
  
• Give him a way to stop his dash without throwing out an attack
  
• Allow more air dashes
  
• Allow him to throw nails while dashing (like in CT)
  
• Make the dash require an input so he can run & jump as usual and block in FRKZ
  
• Give him FRKZ-only attacks
  

You can stop the dash with a FD I'm pretty sure.

[TOKiMONSTA]

I'm more interested in how it could be made better, rather than if it should.

Bang is arguably the strongest character in CS and it's reasonable to assume that in the next version of BB (whether it's a balance patch or next game) he'll be toned down. One of the ways they could do this is make him weaker outside of FRKZ and make FRKZ stronger so he depends on using it. I want to know how FRKZ could be made better.

Some changes they could make off the top of my head:

• Make 6B and 3C dash cancellable
  
• Remove CH status from his dashes
  
• Give him a way to stop his dash without throwing out an attack
  
• Allow more air dashes
  
• Allow him to throw nails while dashing (like in CT)
  
• Make the dash require an input so he can run & jump as usual and block in FRKZ
  
• Give him FRKZ-only attacks
  

Your list just makes FRKZ even stronger than it already is. Right now FRKZ is situational, as it should be. The wrong way to rebalance Bang would be to force FRKZ on every Bang player, which is essentially what you are suggesting.

As a side-topic I don't think ArcSys is doing any serious re-balancing. At most expect some damage/frame tweaking (fix some things, they might get rid of Taokaka taunt loop, Hakumen infinite, buff Rachel, etc etc). I don't think they would tweak Bang the way you are suggesting and as much as I'd like to play the game of "what if's" it's better to just to play the "wait and see."

[Dacidbro]

I'm more interested in how it could be made better, rather than if it should.

Bang is arguably the strongest character in CS and it's reasonable to assume that in the next version of BB (whether it's a balance patch or next game) he'll be toned down. One of the ways they could do this is make him weaker outside of FRKZ and make FRKZ stronger so he depends on using it. I want to know how FRKZ could be made better.

Some changes they could make off the top of my head:

• Make 6B and 3C dash cancellable
  
• Remove CH status from his dashes
  
• Give him a way to stop his dash without throwing out an attack
  
• Allow more air dashes
  
• Allow him to throw nails while dashing (like in CT)
  
• Make the dash require an input so he can run & jump as usual and block in FRKZ
  
• Give him FRKZ-only attacks
  

Oh, I thought you were actually trying to get to a better future game with your suggestions initially

If it's just "I wish that X were the case because it would be good for me", carry on

[huey253]

FRKZ SHOULD totally stay the way it is, maybe minus CH dashes.

frkz is supposed to be difficult and highrisk but your overall damage increases, your mixup explodes, etc..

more air dashes would be broke, its already 3.

and the nail dash thing was removed for a reason(prevent poor tager and hakumen players from being victimized to an auto lose button)

[Dacidbro]

CH dashes is legit. If not, Tager and Hakumen would be even more free for FRKZ.

[huey253]

FRKZ was a bit OP in CT but seems pretty balanced now.

dash invinicibilty rapes hardcore

[Reioumu]

IMO they should nerf his 5B or 5A...

[10stars]

IMO they should nerf his 5B or 5A...

His 5a is fine, his 5b needs to be toned down. 5bs just too good.

[faultydefense]

after playing a little more, i'm convinced that j.A is bang's best anti-air