Slayer AC Combos

[Ross]

like you said urself 2K Linking -> 2D or 2H

even though i hear argument of it is a gattling too but watever it is, timing it is always better then mashing it.. trust me on that... you probably jsut timed it wrong

Mashing might get it to hit a few times, but mashing itself actually might delay the move from coming out :o

I looked at the frame data, and if I figured it out right on normal hit, it's a gatling with a two frame window to get it right, thanks to how long into kick you have to wait to gatling and such. It's like a very late cancel, not a link really but similar in how you time it.

Special combo for the day

cr.k (ch), cs.s xx pile bunker. Works well against waking up opponents since you have to be pretty close for this to work, pretty easy to rc and go into a nice fat combo. Just good to know its there.

Forgot to say this too, I found out two guaranteed two dhd setups off of ch c.hs, on sol just do st. hs, j.s(2-hit) xx dhd. On Axl, same thing except do jumping hs xx dhd. The timing will take a bit to get used to because you need to st.hs them at the right point (after they've falled a little) and you need to jump at them the right way, but it's pretty easy and gets you a big amount of damage. If you have full meter you can almost kill axl midscreen off of ch. cr.hs

[Zaido]

ok so its a gattling that kind of loooks like a link... fair enough :X so i guess its a timed gattling

[Wirya]

Hmm, I think if you happen to land a CH 2K (and Slayer is quite close to the opponent that you can land a S©), it's better to gatling it to 2H and continue to air combo. 2K-2H is one of Slayer's greatest arsenals, so we gotta learn it well ^__^

[femoral]

if you are close enough and land a 2K just do 2HS 5P air combo or BBU IMO

[Ross]

But that ain't fancy! Everyone does that shit, my combo much cooler cause it involves pilebunker. haah.

[Zaido]

there were times i did 2H, did liek i think delay 5K -> mappa punch combo, man, after able to do mappa punch, 5K mappa punch-> air combo, i felt good !

[Wirya]

there were times i did 2H, did liek i think delay 5K -> mappa punch combo, man, after able to do mappa punch, 5K mappa punch-> air combo, i felt good !

Oh I'm sure you really did!

[/jealous]

Hmm, it seems that Slayer's 2D isn't as good as in Slash. In AC it's harder to land an air combo after a CH 2D. Oh well....

[Zaido]

actually i think the 2D is better, because it feels liek it can HIT them earlier so you can hit them if they tend to do some block string and rush in again.. but this can also be a bad thing too if it hits too early if it was blocked !

[RoBoBOBR]

That's no surprise because start-up is faster (thus earlier hitting) and recovery is longer (harder combos off CH).

[Ross]

Also I don't think the old school standard combo c.p, c.s is a chain anymore, it's a link now so it's a lot harder, I miss that more than anything else.

[Wirya]

@Ross : Oh I think 2P-2S is still quite easy. You just have to delay the 2S a lil bit, that's all. The timing doesn't feel tight at all, well at least to me.

[CrimsonDisaster]

Jumping off of AKA's post, here's some corner combo variations off a mixup (like 5K or Undertow into whatever): 6K, 5K > 6P FRC 5H... Generic works on lots of people with different timings: JC [j2K, K], land, 5H SJC [sjH, D > 2K, K], land, 5P JC [jD] JC [j2K, K], land, 5H SJC (sjH, K JC djK/S > 2K, D > 2K, D] - a bit easier than trying to do jH, K links off the first bounce. - sjH, D version works on ABA! Also probably your best bet on lights if you can get the initial [j2K, K], land, H part on them. - sjH, K version works on plenty of people but I don't remember who So I'm trying to optimize this for specific characters but those 2 variations work on plenty of people. On Pot... shrug, I dunno what's the best for damage, I just do [H JC j2K, K, land]x2-3, H XX PB lol. Or after the first rep, 5H XX PB, 2P > 5P air combo. On lights... couple of variations for different characters since their hitboxes are all weird, but generally start with 5H SJC [sjH, D > 2K, K], land into whatever. On Dizzy- 5H SJC [sjH, D > 2K, K], land, 5P JC [jK > 2K, jK JC dj2K, D > 2K, D] is the most consistent version I've found for damage + knockdown (251 with no guardbar, ~265 off blocked 5K). There's a more damaging variation that I can't get a knockdown off of, but it only does like 15 more points of damage and it's way harder, so I'll mess with it more and see if anything comes of it. You can also j2K, K on her, it's just pretty weird... don't remember if you get more damage doing it, either. lol Undertow (blocked), 2D(hits) RC 5H JC [j2K, K], land, 5H XX FB PB, 5H XX FB PB, OTG whatever kills Chipp from full ;(

[Arvandor]

*sigh* His links are kind of annoying. I can land 5Ks in succession all day long, I can do 5S 5S 2K 2HS most of the time, getting 2D after 2K or 2P 2S is really easy, but if I try to do multiple 2Ks I ALWAYS misstime it... I don't understand =( And an actual question: What's the best followup for something like 5K 2K 2HS BBU? I've just been doing (walk forward) 5HS air dash j.D for the knockdown. Can you do any actual air combos, or is the pushout too much by that point? Would 5HS PB be better? Would it even work? o_O I've only just started playing AC.

[Honnou]

Why would you ever want multiple 2k's anyways...I haven't seen a good combo with them. Unless we're just talking about 2k 2k 2d instead of 2k 2d lol. Also, what you can do after BBU in a combo is distance-dependent, but on every character, you can do something like...2k->2hs, BBU, 2d, 5k/5p/5s (sometimes you have to do 2 5ks or 2 5ps or 5s, 5s), jk j2k jk jc jk j2k jd. And if the height ends up weird for some characters it may not work, but this is the basic combo.

[CrimsonDisaster]

For ABA, best corner combo for damage:tension I've got is- 6K, K > 6P FRC H JC [j2K, K], land, H JC [j2K, K], land, H XX 214P > P (196) 2D RC leads into the same followup (from the first H). Does about the same damage, go figure. On Johnny, best I've found is: 6K, K > 6P FRC H JC [j2K, K], land, H XX 214P > P, 2P > P JC [jD] (213) You can do the same followup off 2D RC, again. Easier, less damaging, still knockdown version off 2D RC: 2D RC, H JC [j2K, K], land, H XX 214P > S, P JC [jK JC djD] (204)

[Arvandor]

Wouldn't 2K 2K into anything do more than just one 2K? Or is there extra proration that makes it worthless? I found out why I was having problems though. 2K 2K is a link (kind of like 5K spam), whereas 2K 2HS is more like a timed gattling of some kind =/ Either way, the timing is quite a bit different, and that's why I'd always fail =) Man, any of the 5HS xx PB stuff I can't do at all. I was trying to do this on Sol in training mode. 6K 5K 6P FRC HS j.K j.2K j.K 5HS xx PB, and even when I landed the 5HS at the very height of its ability to catch Sol, I STILL couldn't get the PB in before he bounced too high for it to hit. Yet, I can do 5S xx PB just fine... What gives?

[Zaido]

think of it this way... bounce property has this much of un tech property, and so, if you hit them really high up to bounce, they fly higher, and yet easier to tech... so.. if you hit them lower, they have lesser chance to tech, and yet you can hit them much easier... and 5S xx PB is not the same as 5H bounce -> PIle bunker...

[EclipsingBinary]

How is it possible to combo 5K -> 6P? According to the frame data, 5K leaves you with +7 on standing hit, and the start-up of 6P is 18F.

Please pardon my ignorance if I'm overlooking something simple. =X

Furthermore, when it says in the frame data that a move is gatling cancelable from frame X to frame Y, is that the input window or the actual cancel window?

For example, the frame data says 2K is "11-14F gatling cancelable." Let's say that I want do a simple 2K 2D combo. Can I input 2D on 10F and have its start-up animation begin on what was supposed to be 11F of 2K, or must I actually wait until 11F to input 2D?

[Hellmonkey]

Wouldn't 2K 2K into anything do more than just one 2K? Or is there extra proration that makes it worthless?

Proration is only at the beginning of a combo. Forced proration is on a few moves, and that will happen any time you use it, even in the middle of a combo. Proration scales down the damage of everything you do in the combo afterwards by whatever percent proration there is- the lower % of proration the less damage the combo will do afterwards.

Combo damage is decided by taking the normal damage of the move you are hitting them with and modifying it by the other character's defense multiplier, along with taking into account Guts if the other character is lower on life, and guard balance. The way to get the highest damage combos is to use the highest damage moves which take the least amount of guard balance away (GB-) early in the combo. As the combo goes on, each hit you do does less and less damage because their guard balance starts to get so low. Slayer's 2K does 18 damage and has a GB- of 7. Throwing another 2K in a combo, as opposed to going straight to 2HS, which does 52 damage and only has a GB- of 6, will lower combo damage a lot as it will not only cause the 52 damage to do less than it would have after just one, but also the following bbu or however you follow up.

As a general rule of thumb, in big combos you want to get your highest damage moves that have a low GB- in as early as possible, but for short 3-4 hit combos or whatever GB- does not play nearly as big a role so you should try to get as many hits in as possible.

Once you get to the end of a big combo and their guard balance is extremely low you should also just try to get as many hits in as possible, especially if they're very close to dying so their guts is in full effect, since your moves will all be doing so little damage.

Also, when you are making them block, it's usually your best idea to use moves that have the highest GB+, so afterwards if you are able to start a combo before the guard balance has time to return to 0, their gaurd balance will be higher so more hits in your combo will do full damage than they normally would. After a combo which leaves their guard balance negative, it returns to 0. All of these values can be found here

How is it possible to combo 5K -> 6P? According to the frame data, 5K leaves you with +7 on standing hit, and the start-up of 6P is 18F.

Please pardon my ignorance if I'm overlooking something simple. =X

Furthermore, when it says in the frame data that a move is gatling cancelable from frame X to frame Y, is that the input window or the actual cancel window?

For example, the frame data says 2K is "11-14F gatling cancelable." Let's say that I want do a simple 2K 2D combo. Can I input 2D on 10F and have its start-up animation begin on what was supposed to be 11F of 2K, or must I actually wait until 11F to input 2D?

I'm not completely sure about inherent input lag in guilty gear, but if the game receieves your input on the 10th frame it will not come out.

[Zaido]

How is it possible to combo 5K -> 6P? According to the frame data, 5K leaves you with +7 on standing hit, and the start-up of 6P is 18F.

Please pardon my ignorance if I'm overlooking something simple. =X

Furthermore, when it says in the frame data that a move is gatling cancelable from frame X to frame Y, is that the input window or the actual cancel window?

For example, the frame data says 2K is "11-14F gatling cancelable." Let's say that I want do a simple 2K 2D combo. Can I input 2D on 10F and have its start-up animation begin on what was supposed to be 11F of 2K, or must I actually wait until 11F to input 2D?

not to sure how to answer you on this other then what i think might be the answer? and is that frame data say +7 on standing hit right? so... lets say crouching hit is like more + Frames then just 7, so you the moves gives + this much as the 5K recovers completely if i am not mistaken?? so... you can cancel it early into 6P which over all makes the 6P hit.. so if you cancel and against crouchers wouldn't the frame be enough for 6P to hit crouchers? and the 5k->6P only works against crouchers... so the combo woudl be soemthign like 6K->5K->6P (against crouchers)

i dunno how to really do this frame data chat blah blah, but i think that is how it goes??? people shoudl tell me if i am hitting somethign here or am i only hitting air

[CrimsonDisaster]

I thought I implied by 6K, K > 6P that it was on crouchers

[EclipsingBinary]

I know that you suffer additional hitstun if you're crouching, but that much? As far as I know, 5K cannot be canceled into 6P. If 5K causes 17F hitstun on standing hit and leaves you at +7, then wouldn't it have to cause 28F hitstun on crouching hit in order to fully cover the 18F of start-up that 6P has?

That is the nature of my question. A regular level 2 attack inflicts only one more frame of hitstun on crouching hit than on standing hit. I know that Slayer's attacks frequently have their own rules as far as stun frames are concerned, but I just find it a little difficult to believe that his 5K can inflict 28F hitstun on crouching hit when regular level 2 moves inflict only 13F.

Please do not misconstrue my posts. I am not trying to argue about whether the combo works or not, I am merely trying to understand how/why it works. I am fairly new to the game and would appreciate any efforts to further my understanding of it.

[CrimsonDisaster]

K gatlings into 6P.

[EclipsingBinary]

...Oh.

[Zaido]

well, i think i said, K recovers from the hit and has a +7 on hit stun... so... ok since i dunno how much hit stun it actually gives, lets just go withur 13F on lvl 2 move so K gatlings into 6P so by all means the K did not recover yet, so it has +7 Frames from the hit stun + whatever extra frames it has left from the gatling into 6P which starts up 18 frames... so because you hit them and they are stun on contact, is 13 F so during that time it takes 6 Frames to recover so you get the +7 so if it didn't recove ryet and you gattling into 6P which is 18 frames so... lets say + the modification fo hit stun from crouchers, you add the +7 with the crouch in so its more then +7 frames there, you then add the frame in which you gattlinged into 6P so you get more frames from that... so all in all it shoudl add up to about either = or more frames then 18 frames so 6P will hit... so if they are not crouchign maybe that little bit less stun frames will cause the moev to be less then 18 frames so it wont combo.. but because they are crouchgin adding to the fact that crouchign gives more hit stun, thus it can combo... so.. i dunno if i answered ur question with LACK of knowledge of frame data... but i am tryign my best to explain hopefully i said anythign right... if i am wrong?? o well i am srry, i am only human :V...