Warhound Posted October 10, 2010 Posted October 10, 2010 ^ Exactly, he's a punish character. If he becomes Lambda with a big-ass sword, I might as well make him a sub.
FullAutoDeath Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 I don't like it. Personally, Hakumen is already somewhat boring to play in BBCS and making him primarily a poke & zone character sounds less interesting. The idea of him having a predominantly weaker close range game designed to push back opponents doesn't sit well with me either. That said, while I don't like it, I'll deal with it since he is really the only character I bothered to learn (largely thanks to the amount of time and effort it took to play him in BBCT). ^ Exactly, he's a punish character. If he becomes Lambda with a big-ass sword, I might as well make him a sub. This and this. CT Haku definitely had problems but in all honesty it was my favorite version of him. It's still a little too early to jump to conclusions though. Is there going to be another loke test after this one?
Shin ATproof Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Two more locations this month and an unknown number prior to 12/9...or whenever BBCS2 is scheduled to drop.
soujiro seta Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 ^ 2 more loketest. EDIT lol beat me by a couple seconds
BladeOfJustice7 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 I love cs hakumen, but if they turn him into a zoner with shit damage (ky was my main and I hated his shit damage) valk is gonna be my main then. Haku is known for his wicked damage off punishes such as ib and counters. If they take that away (counters and damage) he's not longer the character he was developed to be in the cast. Thus he wouldn't match my playing style anymore and I would might as well switch mains... Stupid counter nerfs are stupid>_>
Re4L14124c Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 [lol] But I rely on D to get into combos! [/lol] Seriously, though, if they're going to do that, why even put D in there? People already avoid using D usually; doing this will pretty much just get Hakumen a huge handicap. I can't imagine Tsubaki sliding....it's a downward slam; maybe if it bounced, but it knocks the opponent away?
FullAutoDeath Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 I can't imagine Tsubaki sliding....it's a downward slam; maybe if it bounced, but it knocks the opponent away? Makes about as much sense as Hotaru wallbouncing.
psycofang2 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 this is making me sad. if haku is becoming what mac was pointing to...i dont know if i can still main him. i liked CT haku, close game was beyond awesome. CS he got a bit worse but JC gave me more room to do what i want to ppl. now...oi...i dont know anymore. even if its a loketest, if this stays then damn im out of a main. he was the only one that fits me.
Blade Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 I said this before, I'll say it again, if you don't like the changes, stick with version 1.02/1.03. But even then...I don't know how many loke-tests are left, but so far, any major nerfs I've seen have turned into potential buffs depending on the character in question. Ragna and Rachel got alot better from their last nerfing, that I saw. And Ragna was hit with the nerf bat pretty hard.
psycofang2 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 yeah but if we want to play other players we pretty much need to keep with the updates. also the DLC characters will only work on said updates.
Zeru Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 I agree with the general sentiment here, I really don't want to see Hakumen turn into an all out zoning character. I hope future loctest's revert some/most of those changes. I thought Hakumen was perfect the way he was, except for some input changes and 6B being buffed a bit.
Tofu Warrior Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 I won't pass judgment until I actually get my hands on CS2 Hakumen. Everything we see here is subject to change over 2 loke tests, and maybe there's something we're missing too, having seen no footage yet. If he really can't combo off any drive counters, then I'd be happy if successfully landing a drive gave you 2 stars, or did a static 2k or something. If 6B does more damage, that would definitely help him early in a round. But it's like people said, if "more zoning, fewer rush down options" is the direction they're taking him, I'll just play Platinum or something. She has a long air dash and long range pokes, maybe she's the new Hakumen.
Divine_prophet Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 maybe she's the new Hakumen. ... what? What does it mean that you can't combo off of 6D? Can we still use Mugen after 6D connects and combo off that or is that not possible anymore?
Warhound Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 ... what? What does it mean that you can't combo off of 6D? Can we still use Mugen after 6D connects and combo off that or is that not possible anymore? I don't think I've heard a very definite explanation for 6D yet. Can we really not combo it off of anything at all? Or just certain things like lvl 3 6C? Even still, why would it matter if we could combo into Mugen or not? They actually went and made Mugen worse, and I didn't even think that was possible.
qwerty Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 If that's the case then I like it yukikaze even more. how much better does yukikaze really need to be? it was already easy as piss to land in ct, and then they buffed it by making it catch lows (which is dumb as hell, lol) and now you don't even get superflash until it's already connected? that's a free reversal unless they add some SERIOUS recovery to it (like three seconds or some shit). and combined with all of the other D nerfs, it just doesn't make much sense to randomly buff an already buffed counter. on the other hand, i like the D nerfs a lot, actually; maybe now hakumen players will learn to block mixups.
mAc Chaos Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Hakumen players are already better than blocking than most players, or at least they should be. >_> His D's already got nerfed (unnecessarily, imo) when CS came around... I don't think it'll make the kind of players thinking of start blocking though.
qwerty Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Hakumen players are already better than blocking than most players ever wonder why even though hakumen rose to A tier, he received the same representation at sbo as he did in ct? simple; hakumen players don't fucking block anymore. even the good ones like A-92 and tenchi can be found mashing 2D/j.D when they SHOULD be blocking, and then they eat a counter hit cmndgrab from bang and then they die. the biggest reason (i think) this is is because j.D is actually good now; it's a shame so few people know how to use it correctly. well, what about ib'ing into a counter? that's good, right? actually, not so much anymore. it was a guessing game in ct, but at least it was in your favor. now though, other characters have much scarier frametraps and punishes than they used to (using the above example, eating a bang cmndgrab didn't used to be so bad! but now...), which makes even ib'ing into D not that good anymore.
Tofu Warrior Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Hakumen - 6C slides on standing opponents. Why would they do this. lol.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 ever wonder why even though hakumen rose to A tier, he received the same representation at sbo as he did in ct? simple; hakumen players don't fucking block anymore. even the good ones like A-92 and tenchi can be found mashing 2D/j.D when they SHOULD be blocking, and then they eat a counter hit cmndgrab from bang and then they die. the biggest reason (i think) this is is because j.D is actually good now; it's a shame so few people know how to use it correctly. well, what about ib'ing into a counter? that's good, right? actually, not so much anymore. it was a guessing game in ct, but at least it was in your favor. now though, other characters have much scarier frametraps and punishes than they used to (using the above example, eating a bang cmndgrab didn't used to be so bad! but now...), which makes even ib'ing into D not that good anymore. I thought he still had the same representation because "it's not easy to win with hakumen" compared to s tier characters like bang and litchi:psyduck: are you saying that didn't play a role in his representation at sbo qwerty? Or simply because the counter buffs is the sole reason for this? Hakumen - 6C slides on standing opponents. Why would they do this. Can it cancel into enma?
Blade Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 My overall sentiment with Haku-men (aka my wishlist): --Make Enma>falling j.2C>2C easier. --Give falling j.2C higher "pick up" after Airthrows. --Keep j.D followups --Give 5D a followup or at least a Special Cancel --Give 6D better timing for charged 6C --Keep TK Tsubaki ground pick-up combos --Make j.B easier to air combo with. --Give 2C a "Fumajin" --3C>Gurren pickup --Make 6A "safer" --Give old 6B floor bounce Counterhit back --Make "mugen" Zantetsu less techable on the 2nd hit. --All Ds should give 1 Magatama (or at least 5D 1 Magatama and 6D/j.D/2D 1 half a Magatama) Ah...but if wishes were horses....sigh.
mAc Chaos Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Yeah qwerty, I did wonder that, but I figured it was because Japan just hates Hakumen or something, or that he's not as good as people think he is. And yeah I know what you mean about the counters... on top of that they do less damage too so there's less reward. But... I still like doing them They're my favorite part of playing, when you completely read through someone's moves and place just the right counter, or just know what they're going to do. For some people that makes people salty, more than usual. :P
Sophisticat Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Eh, Mac said exactly what I thought after reading the new changes. Maybe they're trying to turn him into the "Corner King"? I don't like this new Haku at all. But! If he gets Mist Finer, count me sold. Not going to happen though, so we'll see how he turns out. EDIT: Yes! I agree with Qwerty that j.D needs more abuse. That thing is one of the bigger parts of my gameplay now, with Hotaru. Those two moves alone net me half the damage I get in matches. Nolan, you're STILL salty bro? ... Damn... Salt water will run in my veins if these changes are implemented. Might switch to Valk or Jin after all.
WolfCrimson Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 My overall sentiment with Haku-men (aka my wishlist): --Make Enma>falling j.2C>2C easier. Nah man, I like the current difficulty level in executing this combo, makes me feel special when I do it --Give falling j.2C higher "pick up" after Airthrows. Wouldn't that mean they'd have to revert j.2C's start up back to CT status? --Give 2C a "Fumajin" This is a MUST. I think it's actually a bug that's never been fixed or detected, because honestly, it says in fumajin's description "sword attacks", and 2C most certainly isn't a groin kick, it's a sword attack. --Give 5D a followup or at least a Special Cancel I want to agree with you, but that means they'd have to revert it back to CT status, with 12 activeframes and 20 recovery, otherwise a huge window + special cancel is kinda too OP. --5D gives 1 Magatama and 6D/j.D/2D 1 half a Magatama. Except 5d is like CT 5D. Fixed for you. I reaaaally missed this from CT, I want it!!! --Give 6D better timing for charged 6C What? It's good as it is, man, makes you feel good when you do it. --Make j.B easier to air combo with. I don't get it, it's fine as it is. --3C>Gurren pickup You can already do 3C (ch?), 2b>gurren, so it's fine as it is right now. --Make 6A "safer" I don't mind this, but it's ok-ish as it is now. --Give old 6B floor bounce Counterhit back A quick overhead that bounces on CH? That's s-tier stuff man. I mean, ok they can revert 6b back to what it was in CT, but then that's losing an overhead that didn't cost any magatama. --Make "mugen" Zantetsu less techable on the 2nd hit. Nah man, it's good as it is,as most of Zantetsu's damage is in the first hit, not the second hit, and it adds extra proration. --Keep TK Tsubaki ground pick-up combos --Keep j.D followups Yes please! Oh, and one more thing --Remove 4c. This is my wishlist i.e. in addition to what I said about Blade's changes.
mAc Chaos Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 I'd take the old counters and old 6B over the new ones any day of the week.
WolfCrimson Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 ^Same, but they'd have to remove j.5C and 4c. Because High damage + good counters + range/zoning is just too much man.
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