[CS1] Hakumen Information Thread

[Sophisticat]

Replying to both Wolf and Blade here.

Nah man, I like the current difficulty level in executing this combo, makes me feel special when I do it

There's more to it than that. Easier f.C combo like that and 5c -> 5c is no longer a link.

Wouldn't that mean they'd have to revert j.2C's start up back to CT status?

Yes please, my timing for air throw -> j.2c was f'ed up because of the startup. It's now more ambiguous to combo since it's more reliant on height.

This is a MUST. I think it's actually a bug that's never been fixed or detected, because honestly, it says in fumajin's description "sword attacks", and 2C most certainly isn't a groin kick, it's a sword attack.

What's a Fumajin?

I want to agree with you, but that means they'd have to revert it back to CT status, with 12 activeframes and 20 recovery, otherwise a huge window + special cancel is kinda too OP.

Meh, 5D is fine. Use j.D instead.

You can already do 3C (ch?), 2b>gurren, so it's fine as it is right now.

If you 3c too far, 2b does not combo. Since they removed 3c -> 3c, it would be good to have.

I don't mind this, but it's ok-ish as it is now.

Just give us CT 6a. ;_;

A quick overhead that bounces on CH? That's s-tier stuff man. I mean, ok they can revert 6b back to what it was in CT, but then that's losing an overhead that didn't cost any magatama.

6b is not overhead, it's a taunt.

Nah man, it's good as it is,as most of Zantetsu's damage is in the first hit, not the second hit, and it adds extra proration.

No, it's there for a reason. Mugen combos would become retarded to watch.

--Remove 4c.

The stench! Begone, bridge dweller!

*4c's into a bath*

[SimpleKiss]

EDITED, nevermind. I can't read.

[WolfCrimson]

There's more to it than that. Easier f.C combo like that and 5c -> 5c is no longer a link

How so? If j.2C was made like CT's J.C, then all you had to do to do that link was delay your j.2C a bit more.

Yes please, my timing for air throw -> j.2c was f'ed up because of the startup. It's now more ambiguous to combo since it's more reliant on height.

If you can't airthrow ->j.2C at a specific height, then you can use j.B. It's height-reliant, so you have to train yourself to visually make out what move to use.

What's a Fumajin?

Fumajin = the black void when you hit a projectile with your sword. For some reason 2C doesn't produce those, even though it's a sword attack.

If you 3c too far, 2b does not combo. Since they removed 3c -> 3c, it would be good to have.

It's no big deal if we lost 3C>3C anyways. If you 3C too far, then move closer. Applicable before 3C and after 3C.

6b is not overhead, it's a taunt.

It's an overhead. And it was quick. You could play mindgames with it. Like me

No, it's there for a reason. Mugen combos would become retarded to watch.

Well, yeah, there's that too.

The stench! Begone, bridge dweller!

*4c's into a bath*

Pfft, you kids and your brand new 4C's. Back in my day, we 6Ced our way in.

*6C's into a bath*

[Blade]

6B is an overhead, but it's not very rewarding when it lands.

As for 4C to me it only has so many uses

--Gurren on CH

--Easy mode Fumajin (especially versus Mu-12)

--A reason to piss Tager off (lol)

[BladeOfJustice7]

6B is an overhead, but it's not very rewarding when it lands.

As for 4C to me it only has so many uses

--Gurren on CH

--Easy mode Fumajin (especially versus Mu-12)

--A reason to piss Tager off (lol)

4c isn't as effective as jc low to the ground.

jc does:

more damage

activates 5 frames faster than 4c

less prone to being iad'ed over it

And when done close to the ground recovers faster than 4c (correct me if I'm wrong)

There's a reason why it's not really used in high level player, a good iad over it and you're eating a solid ch combo.

4c for me is used against projectiles (pending on the character) and against tager as you put it, unless I'm magnetized then it's used sparingly.

[WolfCrimson]

Well, the damage off of it is weak, but the most important thing is the mindgame aspect of it. Say you land it once, the opponent is knocked down, you hop a bit closer, he neutral techs (or was it emergency tech?), you do it again (because usually they get up blocking low), same thing, they get annoyed, they neutral tech and block high- OH NO YOU 3Ced! And you're close enough to 2b>gurren after it because you hopped closer after both 6Bs.

It just annoys the hell out of them, and you didn't use any magatama for it.

[Sophisticat]

4c CH is awesome for the stagger. Free in vs. zoners, mixup if it's close, or you can push into the corner with either:

4c CH -> 3c -> 2b -> gurren -> [x]

[1] hop 5b -> j.a - b -> dj.2a -> j.C

or

[2] kishuu -> 2c -> sj.C -> falling.C

4c is great. It's like j.C, but on the ground!

How so? If j.2C was made like CT's J.C, then all you had to do to do that link was delay your j.2C a bit more.

To make Enma -> f.2c -> 2c easier, you would have to increase the hitstun on enma. This means, in turn, that j.2c can be done lower. Since the 5c -> 5c link is height-dependent, it's now easier to adjust your j.2c to the right timing. It also means that it's easier to do [whatever] -> Enma -> j.2c -> 5c -> enma than it is right now (which is harder than it used to be in CT).

Whatever the case, making this combo easier also makes it easier to dish it out.

If you can't airthrow ->j.2C at a specific height, then you can use j.B. It's height-reliant, so you have to train yourself to visually make out what move to use.

Yeah, it's just stupid that j.2c doesn't work when it should.

Pfft, you kids and your brand new 4C's. Back in my day, we 6Ced our way in.

*6C's into a bath*

Sir, you are talking to none other than the pioneer of CT 6c CH combos. I claim copyrights on those.

I do mourn their loss with you, however.

[Tofu Warrior]

Freshly posted in the loke test 2 thread:

Hakumen

- Added same-move proration to 6C, but less normal proration.

- Can no longer combo from CA.

So literally every drive except for his super are worse haha. Why would they give 6C same-move proration, wtf did they do to that move? Less normal proration = combos do more damage?

[SimpleKiss]

IMO, 4C is a good move. It's just situational. I equate 4C to a scalpal. If you're wild with it and wave it around, you're going to do more harm than good. but once you have a steady hand and apply some intelligence, you can get surgical with it.

I dont think these loctest changes are *too* terrible. I can understand the enma change, so that you can't relaunch them into it again with 5C-> whatever. That shit was pretty insane damage. So Not *too* big of a deal. I like the renka wall bounce, that just means you dont have to add guren anymore to follow up from mid screen.

I want to know if you can dash forward 5A/5B, j.a -> j.b -> j2.a -> J.C afterwards. It doesn't look like it'll be a great herpaderpa 2.star 4.5k damage launcher in the corner anymore though, which sucks.

Slower meter gain, again, sucks. I honestly don't like the "no follows up after counter"

It looks to me like they're trying to make 6C more important than a combo component normal.

Overall I could possibly live with the changes, but I honestly want to follow up counters with something. Prorate the shit out of them if they must, it's just fun to combo after them.

[Blade]

4C CH is a potential setup for a 6C FC in some situations, but I really find using 6C awkward in combos with Haku....once it lands there's a chance you'll screw something up and get countered for it.

I'm hoping those D nerfs go soon. Meter won't matter too much so long as you get Magatama for your Ds.

[mjting]

Hey guys new here. I'm curious as to how high the enma floats the opp. I just hope it doen't launch as high as a ch enma as it'll suck (for me lol).

another thing, as I am not yet that well versed in loketest stuff, in your experiences before, do all the changes get implemented? like for example, LT1= nerf a, then LT2=nerf b AND nerf a? just curious. Thanks.

[Sophisticat]

I have just had an inspired vision of our new Haku: He plays ping-pong in the corner with his opponents. Like, his sword and specials now act like a bat and all he does is play Squash with the poor soul on the receiving end, albeit with some pretty hefty arm strength behind the smashes. Sounds like fun to me.

Hey guys new here. I'm curious as to how high the enma floats the opp. I just hope it doen't launch as high as a ch enma as it'll suck (for me lol).

another thing, as I am not yet that well versed in loketest stuff, in your experiences before, do all the changes get implemented? like for example, LT1= nerf a, then LT2=nerf b AND nerf a? just curious. Thanks.

No idea how high it floats. All we have is a couple descriptive sentences. You can't take lokes seriously either, since changes aren't final until the patch actually comes out.

On 6c, all they need to do is let it link into stuff like it did in CT, and it's good to go. It would give him the ability to deal damage at mid-range, which he just can't do atm, but is the direction in which he's going. Currently, there is a serious dichotomy between his close- and mid-range game unlike in CT.

[mjting]

Thanks man. I hope they do reconsider some of the nerfs. I know the rest of the top tier chars are getting lots too, but hey, why ditch the reward for any D landed? lol. 3c>3c is not big, but hey that's still guaranteed 1700 damage lawl.

[WallJumpMan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8epnY0-CLjc

the only match i cud find from the loke test vids with Hakumen

i cud see that his meter gain is slower

and even tho 3c>3c is out

3>2b gurren is aye okay (not quite ct 3c status)

[mjting]

UGH. the part where he does enma was blocked from sight. UGH.

good thing 2b after 3c is still possible lol.

[Tofu Warrior]

J. 2C and 3C both look insanely fast, and 3C was a quick move to begin with. It looks like the entire animation has been shortened. Our herpderp 2 star 4.5K Renka corner combos look like they still work, he managed to follow up with 2C; it didn't wallbounce like a Gurren in the corner does. I wanted to see a 6C though.

[DioBrando]

What did I tell you Tofu..

[Tofu Warrior]

What did I tell you Tofu..

Haha hey now, I posted in this thread before saying I'd reserve judgment for when I see footage or actually play the game. All in all, I think he'll turn out all right. I just want to see how his damage is affected.

[DioBrando]

lol my bad. A bit out of it from studying lol.

Honestly, Haku will stay and strong despite all of these nerfs if they stayed the same. Everyone else is getting nerfed as well, balance things out. Just wait for the final product. The only real new problem is tsubaki and hotaru.

[SimpleKiss]

lol my bad. A bit out of it from studying lol.

Honestly, Haku will stay and strong despite all of these nerfs if they stayed the same. Everyone else is getting nerfed as well, balance things out. Just wait for the final product. The only real new problem is tsubaki and hotaru.

I think if they buffed up zantetsu and its startup by 3-4 frames, I wouldn't miss TK tsubaki. I've already seen some recent japanese Hakumen vids of people taking it in CS1.

Edited because I'm terrible at writing what I want to say

EDITED AGAIN: I wonder if they'll add some follow ups to 6B, too. They've already buffed it's damage. If 6B becomes more viable, the Tsubaki nerf doesn't hurt as much, either.

EDIT EDIT EDIT: It would seem to me, they're giving hakumen more things to do without meter, but nerfing his meter gain, since he can do more things without it. If that makes sense.

[DioBrando]

yeah it does. He can poke faster and there's the possibility of 2C being a legitimate good anti-air. 2C into j.2A combo or j.2C combo depending on the change they make to it. There's still the possibility of changes in frame data that can make a difference. If there's more hit stun, less recovery or something of the like, his nerfs can justify his buffs. The real problem with loke test is that only obvious changes are seen. The nitty gritty still have to be found out later on.

Doing something after 6B would be a blessing. 6A block strings would be fearsome.

[WallJumpMan]

holy shit

i noticed in the vid that when the hakumen did a 3c around the beginning of the match it was a counter hit and it still could not combo into another 3c

o well

[SimpleKiss]

holy shit

i noticed in the vid that when the hakumen did a 3c around the beginning of the match it was a counter hit and it still could not combo into another 3c

o well

But 2b could combo.

This is interesting. in CS, both moves have the same startup (9 frames)

This means frame data is being messed with or they are hard coding 3c to never ever combo into itself for whatever reason (I'm guessing they're making it purposely whiff on grounded opponents for whatever reason?)

[Re4L14124c]

did they make dash cancel on ground (even) harder? The guy kept dropping it (3C>2B>236A>66), and normally I'd think he's just being shitty, but then again I thought the Hazama in the loketests was just scrubby until I realize they lol dropped his BnB; this could be the same case.

[BladeOfJustice7]

EDIT EDIT EDIT: It would seem to me, they're giving hakumen more things to do without meter, but nerfing his meter gain, since he can do more things without it. If that makes sense.

Makes sense to me, it's just slower meter gain is gonna play a bigger role in nail biting matches, since you need those stars to deal out damage. It'll get harder to do so if you don't have enough stars and need to play keep away till you do. Unless they have/will further increase his meter gain upon dealing ad receiving damage.

Stupid drive nerfs are stupid though, I would need to hear an amazing justification for doing this to zanshin in order for me to not bitch and complain.