Tofu Warrior Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 nope u cud do a rising regular jump c and then do either an airdash or another double jump the timing is kinda tight tho cuz its so close to the ground :/ I find it really inconsistent though, if they make it easier that'd be awesome.
WallJumpMan Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 I find it really inconsistent though, if they make it easier that'd be awesome. ya that wud be pretty awesome
BladeOfJustice7 Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 Theoretically speaking, if nothing changed with 2d and hakumens slashes are faster, there should be enough time after a 2d to hop and 5c into kishuu/enma combo no? Meaning we might be able to get more damage off 2d then our current one since combo execution on 2d I find personally very tight.
Spark Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 5C would have to be 10 frames or less for dash 5C to connect after 2D as 2D dash 5B barely connects now.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 Hmmm, well 5c is currently 14 on startup, so there's a chance that it'll come down to 10. However, I wouldn't bet on it, my guess is 11-12 frame start up as a buff.
WallJumpMan Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 Hmmm, well 5c is currently 14 on startup, so there's a chance that it'll come down to 10. However, I wouldn't bet on it, my guess is 11-12 frame start up as a buff. or maybe it cud be fast enough that 2d would combo straight into 5c without having to walk forward at all
BladeOfJustice7 Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 or maybe it cud be fast enough that 2d would combo straight into 5c without having to walk forward at all The only thing that keeps that form working is that 5c has a smaller hit box still, meaning, you still have to move forward in order to connect 5c with 2d. BUT maybe with a start up buff there would be more time to walk forward meaning less tight execution on a 2d kishuu/enma combo. But this is me hoping, cus I'm c.s's 2d >_>
Sophisticat Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 Lol, a 10f 5c would be so broken. There's no way it'd be that good. Buffed to 11-12f at most like Eb says, imo. The whole point I was making was that having amazing counters =! Defensive character Just curious, how do Baiken's counters work for them to be "amazing"?
Ronin Jinobi Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 Just curious, how do Baiken's counters work for them to be "amazing"? They dazzle you to death!*jazz hands* honestly they're just guard cancels that can be frc'd/lead into big damage combos. as opposed to a parry and catch type of move...if that makes any sense?
Blade Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 They're not "free" free...obviously you can bait her counter with a quick poke and punish whatever she might bring out as a counter. Baiken had like 3 offense counters and 1 evasive counter (not counting forcebreaks). Her main one flipped her behind the opponent with an overhead I think. Her other one had a back thrust with low invincibility and an FRC to it. Her "old" one was kindof an anti-air multi-hit grab (she kept it in her EX form though). Her evasive one was like Noel's dash behind but for Free... For Forcebreak it was pretty much a big fat hitbox to start, and then maybe some random high low mixup followup, but usually if you hit with it, it didn't matter what you followed up with, IMO, unless you were going for Damage. At least with Haku-men, you have more control on some counters on what you can physically do. I hate the idea of turning them into counter-throws though, I like having some optional followups to them, or at least a special cancel from them.
qwerty Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 hakumen's counters don't have to be buffered or option selected to be THAT good, either.
mAc Chaos Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 qwerty post your guideeeeeeeeee it doesn't even have to be complete :P by the time you post it, Hakumen won't even be the same character :P
SimpleKiss Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 I I didn't mean to take this discussion in this direction. I was just saying that Hakumen is a defensive character for a whole bunch of reasions irrelevent to having counters, and I used Baiken as an example of a character who has good counters but has a whole lot of other things going on to make her more offensive.
Blade Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 Having good offense isn't going to stop noobs from spamming D.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 Fuck I hate baiken, it was my most irritating match ups with my friends (ky has a pretty bad match-up with her). But yea that flipping slash counter was terrible, it made you second guess firing stun edge. It covered a good portion of the screen and FAST. I had to completely change my fighting style against baiken in order to beat her which zoning like crazy in order to minimize her counters on me if I fired stun edge. She could play aggressive AND she had her counters, making you second guess your block strings and wake up attacks. Hakumen does the same with his counters, nothing wrong with him having offensive options, I liked hakumen's defensive orientation in ct, but incase everyone forgot that's why he was second worst in the game. He had minimal offensive options, which was a piss off.
qwerty Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 qwerty post your guideeeeeeeeee it doesn't even have to be complete :P by the time you post it, Hakumen won't even be the same character :P i was unexpectedly swamped with school maybe tonight :p
mAc Chaos Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 I liked hakumen's defensive orientation in ct, but incase everyone forgot that's why he was second worst in the game. Well, I personally will take a character whose play style I enjoy at the price of being low tier over a character that's high tier but boring or a style I don't like. i was unexpectedly swamped with school maybe tonight :p Excellent. I wonder if we should have a "Hakumen general" thread like the Bang forums...
Sophisticat Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 I I didn't mean to take this discussion in this direction. I was just saying that Hakumen is a defensive character for a whole bunch of reasions irrelevent to having counters, and I used Baiken as an example of a character who has good counters but has a whole lot of other things going on to make her more offensive. Agreed, though offensive counters like those were designed to go with an offensive style. Haku has defensive counters with a defensive style. ... So the question is: why are they going in a direction where Haku is offensive, but his counters are defensive? They no longer complement each other. Let's hope this weekend's loke gives us some answers. Fuck I hate baiken, [...] Sounds like someone is salty. :P Hakumen does the same with his counters, nothing wrong with him having offensive options, I liked hakumen's defensive orientation in ct, but incase everyone forgot that's why he was second worst in the game. He had minimal offensive options, which was a piss off. I digress, actually. I think he was fine in CT, he just needed a better j.D, the new j.C, 4c, the faster C's and meter gain, and the extra bit of overall damage. And maybe keep 6c non-charged at 17f, but add in the full charge 6c. Just like that, he instantly would have jumped a tier. In fact, I'd be curious as to his placement if they'd given him j.C and 4c from the beginning. But it should be noticed that his tier placement was because of the recovery on his moves, the fact he got zoned, and his performance vs. the top 3. The above corrects this, though he's perhaps too strong like that. >_> I wonder if we should have a "Hakumen general" thread like the Bang forums... I wouldn't mind since we actually discuss relevant stuff which kind of overflows from on-topic stuff. EDIT: Also, I think we can open the Valk matchup thread. Wolf hype died last week, and I've met some pretty good ones already... Not that I'd have anything to input other than "Valk rapes Haku". >_>
SimpleKiss Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 I dont understand what makes a counter "offensive" or "defensive" they're counters. Baiken's worked differently, but a counter is always defensive in nature.
mAc Chaos Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 I think what they meant is that it would make more sense for Hakumen to be defensive in nature than offensive since his entire drive is oriented around defense (counters), rather than having an offensive character and then giving him a defensive drive.
SimpleKiss Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 I think what they meant is that it would make more sense for Hakumen to be defensive in nature than offensive since his entire drive is oriented around defense (counters), rather than having an offensive character and then giving him a defensive drive. His drive isn't the focal point of his game though. The focal point is meter management, imo.
Sophisticat Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 I thought his game was about picking apart another's offense, then laying down the hurt. Counters do their part in making the opponent wary, so you get psychological advantage. Imo, there isn't much meter management going on. Once you get 2 stars, you're good to go.
Warhound Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 I digress, actually. I think he was fine in CT, he just needed a better j.D, the new j.C, 4c, the faster C's and meter gain, and the extra bit of overall damage. And maybe keep 6c non-charged at 17f, but add in the full charge 6c. Just like that, he instantly would have jumped a tier. In fact, I'd be curious as to his placement if they'd given him j.C and 4c from the beginning. But it should be noticed that his tier placement was because of the recovery on his moves, the fact he got zoned, and his performance vs. the top 3. The above corrects this, though he's perhaps too strong like that. >_> Hm, I dunno. That may be too many buffs for CT Haku. Especially considering the fact that he still has old 6A. Dude would be a goddamn fortress. Nu would still be a bitch to fight tho.
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