mAc Chaos Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 Actually, there are some more changes. - Hotaru throws them full screen and can only be combo'd in the corner. - Renka wallbounces like Gurren. - Tsubaki can only be combo'd in the corner if at all. - Damage from C moves is probably the same, but they're faster. 6B damage is more. - Can't combo 3C into itself anymore. - Not sure if 3C > 2B > 214A > etc., works anymore. - Counters have no followups anymore. - Slower meter gain. - 6C causes slide. So... I wouldn't say he has the same comboability. But he still looks good.
Warhound Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 Ok, so those changes are still sticking? Just making sure none of it changed.
mAc Chaos Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 Well... who knows, really, but after those changes they never mentioned that they got changed.
psycofang2 Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 (edited) I was replying to this: "6D is a mugen tool. if jD could allow for mugen start up + actually landing a mugen combo jD would erase 6D all together." i was joking about that. i forgot to add "jk :v:" at the end...woops. because the idea of JD 7f from the ground to air to activation or 1f in the air beating a 1f ground mid/high counter is perposterous. now if haku somehow gained a 2f jump... Edited October 28, 2010 by psycofang2
banshee Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 - Hotaru throws them full screen and can only be combo'd in the corner. [...]. I've read this a few times now. any source for this? cause all I found for the last loketest was Hotaru seems to float diagonally, FC still presentwe know from earlier loketest that Hotaru wallbounces, so I can't quite follow your assumption that it's not comboable outside of corners. I think 66214B > land > 66 > followup may be possible *fingers crossed* edit: typos
Sophisticat Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 We don't know anything, so it's all speculation at this point.
mAc Chaos Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 I've read this a few times now. any source for this? cause all I found for the last loketest was we know from earlier loketest that Hotaru wallbounces, so I can't quite follow your assumption that it's not comboable outside of corners. I think 66214B > land > 66 > followup may be possible *fingers crossed* edit: typos Ah, you're right. I didn't think of those kinds of followups. That was my interpretation of what the change would mean. I can only assume it's going to impact the comboability in at least some way, if not only in the corner, but since they're already making that shift for everyone else... The way I'm imagining it is like Jin's 623B right now, where the CH sends them flying across the screen at a 45 degree angle, or in most cases, the corner. No way to tell until the game comes out and people start going into the lab with it though to find things out.
Spark Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 Where was it mentioned that you can't combo off 2D?
mAc Chaos Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 I looked here, and it looks like you're right: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?10272-BBCS-LokeTest-2-Oct.-8th-2010-Discussion-(NO-COMPLAINING)&p=787062&viewfull=1#post787062 You can't follow up 6D, j.D and 5D. I don't think any more changes to his counters were listed since then.
mjting Posted October 29, 2010 Posted October 29, 2010 At LEAST they gave him back the enma stuff. Also, renka combos on wall are still possible? 5c, renka, 2c to stuff?
Tofu Warrior Posted October 29, 2010 Posted October 29, 2010 Yeah, the only video from the loketests featuring Hakumen showed that corner Renka combos are still possible. You guys also forgot twos buff; he can cancel the Enma (623A command dash) animation in the middle of the move. That's a huge buff, that could really help with pressure. And all of his normal moves has less proration, it was in the loke test 2 thread.
psycofang2 Posted October 29, 2010 Posted October 29, 2010 through speculations on how fast his guage even rises i dont think we will be using it fir pressure too often. also how was the cancel specified? is it jcable? special cancel? SUPER CANCELABLE!?1
WolfCrimson Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 (edited) Hey guys, I think I discovered something! I didn't see it posted anywhere, and it's something that is currently available, not something from the loketests: Haku can use as much Rapid Cancels in Mugen as he wants, as long as Mugen lasts. It doesn't use up 4 magatama in Mugen, so it's like using a special move during mugen. It's pretty neat. EDIT: Ok, this is kinda weird. I tried doing it in Training, but it didn't work, but it worked in Challenge mode, where I first found out about it. Gonna test it out more. EDIT: Ok forget about it, it doesn't work in Versus either, which automatically means that it's a glitch in Challenge mode. Damn, and I got all excited about it too. Edited October 30, 2010 by WolfCrimson
Sophisticat Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 lol, yeah, it's challenge mode only. I think they put it in there because it helps reset the situation faster and doesn't affect anything else. Would've been hella broke if Mugen could use RC. Would be the best unreactable mixup in the game, bar none.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 Same thing with akumetsu, it can be done while in mugen (looks fucking badass), but only in challenge mode sadly.
Warhound Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 Unlimited Rapids in Mugen? It would shoot Mugen from useless to fucking broken in an instant.
WolfCrimson Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 ^Dude, if it were actually true in actual gameplay, I'd do a f*cking Omnislash. Too bad it ain't true. PS. Mugen is not useless, it's just extremely situational.
Warhound Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 I know it isn't useless, but "useless" is just easier to say.
Sophisticat Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 Haku's bit is the closest you'll get to Omnislash. And Mugen is useless. It's far too situational to be functional, just like [6c]. There are better uses for 8 stars.
Warhound Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 Oh yeah, I saw that PC CT vid before. Crazy japs are crazy. Just thought about unlimited rapids in Mugen as far as it would sound. 15(rapi- rap- rap- rapi- rapi- rap) = SHUT UP!!!!
Spark Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 Since people brought up the trouble with 2C cutting projectiles, I've given it some more thought. It's because the hit box that determines whether it will cut a projectile or not is different from the sword attacks "active" hit box. The frame data supports this because it lists j.2A projectile cutting frames as 5-18 even though it's active from frame 11-12, so it can't possibly work off the red hit box for the sword attacks shown in the hit box viewer. So for the most part the hit box for cutting projectiles are close enough to where the sword is that it looks correct. But, for some reason 2C's projectile cutting hit box is a lot closer to where Hakumen is and not where his sword is at all. This is why it can clash with Hazama's chains instead of just cutting them because they are hitting the swords active hit box, but not the projectile cutting hit box. This also explains why it will lose to Arakune's bell bug because when you look at 2C in the hit box viewer it shows the active hit box covering Hakumen completely, but because that isn't the hit box that cuts projectiles it does nothing to the bell bug then after wards it becomes a part of Hakumen's hit box so the bell bug will hit him.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted November 2, 2010 Posted November 2, 2010 Can you tk hotaru a meaty physical attack?
Spark Posted November 2, 2010 Posted November 2, 2010 No, because it will hit you out of the jump start up frames.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted November 3, 2010 Posted November 3, 2010 (edited) Thought so, thanks once again spark. EDIT: Since people brought up the trouble with 2C cutting projectiles, I've given it some more thought. It's because the hit box that determines whether it will cut a projectile or not is different from the sword attacks "active" hit box. The frame data supports this because it lists j.2A projectile cutting frames as 5-18 even though it's active from frame 11-12, so it can't possibly work off the red hit box for the sword attacks shown in the hit box viewer. So for the most part the hit box for cutting projectiles are close enough to where the sword is that it looks correct. But, for some reason 2C's projectile cutting hit box is a lot closer to where Hakumen is and not where his sword is at all. This is why it can clash with Hazama's chains instead of just cutting them because they are hitting the swords active hit box, but not the projectile cutting hit box. This also explains why it will lose to Arakune's bell bug because when you look at 2C in the hit box viewer it shows the active hit box covering Hakumen completely, but because that isn't the hit box that cuts projectiles it does nothing to the bell bug then after wards it becomes a part of Hakumen's hit box so the bell bug will hit him. Nice write up, my reading comprehension is terribad though. SO what you're saying is, so that I understand completely, is that not only are the autoguard active frames for hakumen's slashes later on than what is written in the frame data. Not only that but, 2c's area to cut projectiles is not actually where the sword is but rather closer towards hakumen's own hitbox during the move. Correct? If this is the case then does this mean that 2c will always lose to some projectiles, are the frames that actually cut projectiles cut properly as hakumen's other slashes, and will the cutting frames still clash with moves like hazama's 5d? It sounds like they messed around with the autoguard frames of hakumen's 2c because before, when I screwed around in training mode in ct properly timed 2d could block all of nu's sword portal super, and the area where the autoguard was active is not the same from what it sounds like in cs. Edited November 3, 2010 by BladeOfJustice7
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