[CS1] Iron Tager Complete Guide

[huey253]

oh, well i mentioned it, because i KNOW bang can't backdash it.

and i thought it was a universal option for shutting down back dashes and jumps with a few exceptions

[DoomieJ]

oh, well i mentioned it, because i KNOW bang can't backdash it.

and i thought it was a universal option for shutting down back dashes and jumps with a few exceptions

Bangs backdash has always been LOL worthy though. better to IAD back.

[Leo7]

pretty sure every other character escapes 5a with a good reversal backdash.

[Master Bigode]

which characters can backdash tager's 5A?

I think everyone can do it except haku if you delay the backdash a little.

[Osuna]

So I'm just wondering. Why does this even work?

Gadget finger can only be used if they are in a combo that included some sort of knockdown like state.

Gadget finger leaves them in hit stun a couple frames after you recover from it. So you can use those frames to start a second gadget finger that won't combo because it doesn't come out in time. While it can't hit standing opponents gadget finger does have the ability to hit air opponents and has strong magnetism.

[whitevoid]

Just a few more thoughts. It beats back dashes that were formerly unbeatable and if nothing else the second gadget gets you another look at one of their reactions in gadget finger to further education your next one.

Also, getting 2k for 50 meter at the end of a combo ain't bad. I know it seems counter intuitive, but if I spent that meter mid combo instead I'd be getting like maybe 1k out of it and wouldn't get much meter back. And it resets your double gadget. In match ups where it catches the backdash and the jump if you hold it you now have an option twice as safe as collider or 6A was and we've all committed to those before.

So yeah collider beat noel's 2D and other options beat backdash. But collider didn't beat backdash. and 360 didn't beat jump. in fact if you did those she either got away or maybe even comboed you for up to 5.5K. In my opinion it improves the risk reward in gadget finger in several match ups quite a bit because it catches jumps. If it Just caught back dashes then we have a slightly better punish for backdashes.

It also, and I think this is perhaps the most important feature, give incentive to not mindlessly escape gadget and go for pokes which lose to 360B which as you all may recall is the one with Soviet Damage. Which also resets the double gadget option.

TL;DR double gadget combines options which statistically makes mix up out of more effective and it gives meterless ways to punish long backdashes.

To be honest, at the rate that I eat 720s, I'll eat that 2K damage any day. And you can't just think of it as "adding" damage, because you're actually risking getting CH so it's 2K versus whatever you lose if you guess wrong. Lastly, it seems kind of moot to reset it if Tager already blew his 50 meter on the combo. If he had 100 only doing 4K for 100 meter seems like spending way too much meter. It's definitely a strong option to have, but it doesn't change the amount of choices for the opponent just yours and the corresponding risk/rewards.

[Osuna]

To be honest, at the rate that I eat 720s, I'll eat that 2K damage any day. And you can't just think of it as "adding" damage, because you're actually risking getting CH so it's 2K versus whatever you lose if you guess wrong. Lastly, it seems kind of moot to reset it if Tager already blew his 50 meter on the combo. If he had 100 only doing 4K for 100 meter seems like spending way too much meter. It's definitely a strong option to have, but it doesn't change the amount of choices for the opponent just yours and the corresponding risk/rewards.

Yeah, I've been thinking about it a lot after I said that, but speaking about 4k for 100. Spinny plus terra is something like 4.4k. I just really want them to have a reason to be hit by 360B. other than 720's and Rc mix ups (Again not guaranteed) it's kinda hard to get damage out of meter. Or at least it feels that way to me sometimes. You're right it isn't really tacked onto the end of a combo, but I got all excited because, unless you have full meter or some really esoteric set ups, you don't get +2k off 50 meter. Ever. It is a real issue that it was +2k from 0, but normally you can't do that. With 100 meter you can add 2 or 3k onto a good combo starter so I was thinking in those weird terms.

You might want to do something about the rate you eat 720s though.

[IronTager]

Say, I'm not sure if this has ever been mentioned, but I think it should go on the guide (Unless I'm wrong or paranoid. Though, I'm pretty sure I'm not.)

When I do 4D, the magnetism lasts a shorter instance than the other Drive moves. This might be a "scrub" thing to say or some crap, but I think that people walking in should know that small detail.

[Maho]

4D indeed gives less magnetism than other D moves, IIRC 4 seconds instead of 6 for the other ones.

[t3h_mAsTarOth]

i can't connect gadget finger after 360A... is it character specific?

[Heavy_Mental]

Definitely not Carl. He has a tiny hitbox. 360A, Gadget Finger works on Makoto as well.

[natearistata]

Works on everyone if they're magnetized though, right?

[A.X.I.S.]

hmm 360A>gadget magnetized didn't work for me against ara.

[natearistata]

Just another reason on a long list of reasons to hate Arakune. =(

[Manta]

Gadget finger can be done on most characters after 360A unmagnetised. But a lot of it requires a short step (and I mean short) with some easier than others. There was a write up somewhere about it on this forum.

Here it is:

How to get magnetism after un-magnetized 360A, from easy to hard:

22D: Tager, Bang

5B->4D: Ragna

Walk a few frames, 5B->4D: Litchi, Lambda, Jin, Bang (but use 22D instead)

262D: Noel (easy), Haku (HARD!), Ragna (but use 5B->4D instead)

Walk the most you can, 5B xx Spark: Carl

Not possible, use 3C: Hazama, Tsubaki, Arakune, Taokaka

On anyone you can 5B, you can do 5B xx Spark, 2C xx AC, 5D for 3796 and lots of magnetism.

[t3h_mAsTarOth]

thanks... that helps... also one more question... most of my friends play zoning characters and don't rush me down... but one of my friends plays a very very aggressive Ragna... like he wants to constantly be in my face the whole time... and i don't feel safe back dashing randomly whenever he gets close cause it can easily be countered... and he always air dashes in from far and does jump C... so if i try to 2A him i get counter hit... and he also does jump B or C constantly during block strings and to start strings... specially after a corner combo... and i always tend to just block and he keeps going... so my question is, is there ways around this? i know i can't Atomic Collider or 2A or back dash on wake up, specially in the corner... but even mid stage i eat counter hits for trying to do them... i just can't seem to be able to get him off my face... any tips?

[evilben]

if he is airdashing j.Cing you, you should be able to backdash 360 or just 360a the whole thing, the invuln should get you through it. also 2C is marvelous if he likes to jump in on you, just watch out for the block. if he is rushing you down on the ground 5a spam or a well timed 5b can stop that. if you has you in a block string, IB the 5C and have your way with him.

but really, if he is going to try to jump in on you, hit him with a 2C, that FC is great damage for you and it has some head invuln so his attack shouldnt hit you if timed right

(also this would have been better suited for the Tager v Ragna match-up thread)

[A.X.I.S.]

if he is IADing from far than 2C will work, also IB 360B works on IAD j.C too.

hell you can IB anything 5C and every other poke after it and 360A will beat it.

keep in mind once ragna throws out 5C he has to commit to being risky meaning GH and HF is possible and if he does 5D then IB 360/720 it.

[Heroic_Legacy]

hell you can IB anything 5C and every other poke after it and 360A will beat it.

keep in mind once ragna throws out 5C he has to commit to being risky meaning GH and HF is possible and if he does 5D then IB 360/720 it.

WRONG DO NOT PUNISH IB 5C ON A SMART RAGNA.

2C is coming next in the chain and it has a 1 frame gap. So your 3 frame startup introduces itself to Ragna's 2C....6C..Blood Kain...

[A.X.I.S.]

um that only works if ragna is close enough for it to work, you easily not hit anything and 2C could whiff and if you still block it he still has to commit.

hell you can honestly beat most of ragna's pressure by barrier blocking 5C.

[FlyingVe]

WRONG DO NOT PUNISH IB 5C ON A SMART RAGNA.

2C is coming next in the chain and it has a 1 frame gap. So your 3 frame startup introduces itself to Ragna's 2C....6C..Blood Kain...

This is so true, Ranga's 2C is so good in CS, that they will almost always use it in block strings after 5C. It's + on hit, and really deceptive on wiff (sine you can't stick anything into it). Either way he gets pressure. If you must do something after an IB 5C I'd pick 720(hard) or backdash. The back dash can be baited, but it's pretty hard for Rags. Also, IB the 2C and you're free to do most whatever.

Over all, your best waiting him out. Much like CT Ragna pressure is much less dangerous than it looks.

[Heroic_Legacy]

um that only works if ragna is close enough for it to work, you easily not hit anything and 2C could whiff and if you still block it he still has to commit.

hell you can honestly beat most of ragna's pressure by barrier blocking 5C.

Frame data trivia!

Which move recovers faster?

Ragna's: 5B?

Ragna's: 2C?

2C IS THE CORRECT ANSWER!

Which one is safer on block?

Ragna's 5B?

Ragna's 2C?

2C IS THE CORRECT ANSWER!

Ragna is completely safe after max range 2C and if he connect a far Fatal he can 6C GH double belial.

[A.X.I.S.]

I did say you don't have to hit anything, so how am I wrong? if ragna has a habbit of doing 2C then obviously your not gonna be mashing a 360 out on IB, and he still has to commit to something afterwards.

[t3h_mAsTarOth]

i was just playing my friend the other day... and after 22D pick up... my friend tried to jump away and i did 5A... he blocked it in the air... then i did 360A right after and he said he couldn't escape it... is this true?

[A.X.I.S.]

well if you IB the 5A they can double jump out easily...but FYI if your gonna do 5A>360 make sure its 360B, it grabs them automatic like 720.