shad0whiei Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 I'm also a Jin main but I have to say Tsubaki's really fun ^^; I need to try and go again soon to practice the BnB but I think I'm getting the rest of it down decently.
Nov Ganon Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 I'm also a Jin main but I have to say Tsubaki's really fun ^^; I need to try and go again soon to practice the BnB but I think I'm getting the rest of it down decently. yea man i feel u ima try some cc combos later today see if i can throw them off a bit keep those win streaks coming... pressure is the key man like the CT jin lol
Scamp Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 Alright, how in the world am I supposed to beat Tager? On the ground I get outranged, outprioritized, and outdamaged. In the air I still get outranged but my priority is better. It's just that to use air moves I have to get close to Tager and I don't want to do that. Also apparently Tsubaki is helpless against sledge traps as all of her reversals are considered to be projectiles. Not sure about Astral Finish, but that's kind of silly to consider. The only thing I can think of to do is try and run away and charge then spam D moves. Can anyone recommend some things/strats for me to try or is this matchup really as bad as I think it is?
kro_ Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 First thing that comes to mind is to fill up that charge meter like you said. Don't get in there unless you have a few charges to make the damage worth the risk. 22d during footsies also works well. Anytime you think Tager is going to stick out a limb, 22d it. You can punish his limbs, but he can't really punish 22d without a psychic spark bolt. I've managed to combo after it even during trades, and it usually beats most attacks with proper spacing. Just be ready to jump or backdash B sledge. 236d works as a full-screen punish anytime Tager tries to shorten the distance with a sledge or 2d, but you have to time it well. Mess up and he can 720 you right out of it. 22d unblockable is always strong especially with Tager's hitbox. Sometimes, you can still reach him if you hold it when he tries to backdash. By far, the biggest threat to using 22d during blockstrings is reversal 360a/720. The best way to avert that is to set up the expectation that he's gonna need to block. Jump cancel your normals and abuse aerial jab pressure on the way up to get him out of that habit of mashing 360 during blockstun. Mix up when you jump cancel and when you decide to 22d. j.cc and j.236c can be used to alter your falling speed. You've got 5a, 5b, and 3c for jump cancels and 22d can come out anywhere. Early release 22d can also beat Tager players that try to mash 5a or 2c out of blockstrings. Get him defensive enough and you can even go for overheads and kara throws, though simpler and safer is usually better from my experience.
Prototype-03 Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 Tager matchup is one of the few matchups that I usually play with distance, ESPECIALLY if I'm magnetized. I also play it VERY safe since one of his throws or combos usually means 3k damage. So instead of charge canceling and going back in, I usually back off and see what the Tager does. If he always does grab, then I keep backing off until he does something else. I've lost to a Tager who was churning butter ALL day because a lot of times, I'd either run back in there or whiff the second hit of 5BB. I haven't really had a lot of Tagers try the sledge trap on me, but what I usually ended up doing is wait for the grab and tick throw to reset.
Scamp Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 Apparently Tagers say they can punish 236D with 720 or 360A on normal block. Can anyone test this out?
STenSatsu Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Also apparently Tsubaki is helpless against sledge traps as all of her reversals are considered to be projectiles. Not sure about Astral Finish, but that's kind of silly to consider. Try to dp before the sledge if they are using similar strings a lot. Could also probably IB the hit before sledge and 5b it. Just speaking from CT Litchi xp, she had the same problem.
Ginseng Posted January 12, 2010 Author Posted January 12, 2010 Apparently Tagers say they can punish 236D with 720 or 360A on normal block. Can anyone test this out? No need to test this out, it's been proven lol. So if you do a 236D or something, you're going to be in a similar mixup to post-gadget finger shenanigans. Try to dp before the sledge if they are using similar strings a lot. Could also probably IB the hit before sledge and 5b it. Just speaking from CT Litchi xp, she had the same problem. Not reliable, you would probably rather just try to anticipate what he's going to do (it's in his favor though). Also, if all else fails, gold burst lol.
lxMetalSonicxl Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 What do you guys think her matchups are?
kro_ Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 What do you guys think her matchups are? Um, disadvantage against top 3 and Hakumen. Advantage against Rachel. Fairly even with the rest of the cast. Can't really get more detailed than that with limited experience.
choysauce Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Dunno from experience but Mike Z says Tager is 7/3 against Tsubaki, since her moves are projectile based and 360's between blockstrings
shad0whiei Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 I duno really... Tager's are one of the characters I have least trouble with... but maybe cus I play with a very avid tager player quite often so... ^^; If you wanna play far away, thats fine just anticipate the sparkbolt and 236B into BnB or wallbounce set up. You have alot of ground speed against Tager and can get in real quick and throw them off with Pressure as long as you mix it up. Just don't get predictable or you'll eat a 360/720 quite abit. I have a bad habit of using 236D when far away and my friend just 360s me outta it most of the time >>;
Hawka Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Hey, I've been wanting to ask this for awhile and since people have brought it up I figured I should add, but is Tsubaki going to ever get some match-up threads at some point, even Hazma has them by now. Oh, and when are we going to get some Tsubaki and Hazma icons while we're at it?
shad0whiei Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Oh, and when are we going to get some Tsubaki and Hazma icons while we're at it? I second this xD I can try to make them... but I haven't had much time to play with sprites lately like I used to so it would be awhile... and I'd have to get some practice in for quite awhile first xD EDIT: Ok on a better note I would like to say that her special (236236C/D) does have at least some invincibility frames to it. I'm sure it's just startup but maybe just after the initial hit I'm not completely sure. I've been hit outta it before, but at the same time I've hit them and then didnt get hit out. Need more time to play with it, but i do have a video of me hitting an Arakune with it and his bee's not hitting me outta it at start up. I'll try to get it posted pretty soon >< still haven't uploaded many videos.
Ginseng Posted January 13, 2010 Author Posted January 13, 2010 How do you guys feel about the Tsubaki vs Bang matchup? I personally feel it's the hardest matchup out of the top three.
Hellmonkey Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 bang mashes buttons, tsubaki gets outdamaged.
Zaido Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 its a match up of how to get around bang's mashing
Hawka Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 I feel, from what videos I have seen, that Tsubaki has the speed to keep up with Bang, and the directional attacks to counter any angles he comes from, even with the damage disadvantage. Personally I feel Ragna is a lot worse, out of all the 'big three+Hakumen" I second this xD I can try to make them... but I haven't had much time to play with sprites lately like I used to so it would be awhile... and I'd have to get some practice in for quite awhile first xD Well, it's not like we don't all have time to kill until the counsel release. Btw, who made the original icons? Can't we ask them?
shad0whiei Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Bang is scary... no lie xD. From my experience so far I have to agree that Ragna is of more threat. Bang really depends on how the other player plays. I've only seen Ragna played one way xD and that definately keeps you from having time to charge. Bang's drive can be a pain but with Tsubakis many multi-hit normals and such it should be fairly easy to hit them out of but... on the other hand if the teleport to the other side of you, youre still in animation and will get hit. I think Bang is hard for everyone in the game ^^ He's just too good. Match up wise I've had problems with Bangs and Ragnas. Everyone else isn't so bad. Tsubaki's weakness from what matches I've been in (granted not many) is other rush/beat down characters that don't give her room or out prioratize her.
Hawka Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Wait, I thought Tsubaki could change sides and redirect her attacks to the otherside mid-combo, shouldn't that help against Bang? I'm fairly certain I saw a Tsubaki player (Inoue perhaps) do that once against a Bang player, of course this wasn't where her attack got caught or anything, I doubt many characters can cancel out Bang in that regard. Yeah, that's basically been my assessment, though I think Ragna's anti-air REALLY sticks a fork in Tsubaki's air game, which wasn't such a problem versus Bang from what I saw, in fact it seemed to help given how many air-dashes Bang does. (DAMN YOU INFERNO DIVIDER!)
Zaido Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 the fact that Ragna is so hard for tsubaki, isn't because he got an Anti Air and you can't do anything to him... its the fact that he has better moves then you in general. He just does everythign Better then you... Tsubaki moves has Auto Turn around, but the thing is if Bang does a guard point where you did the wrong move, you gona get killed. besides bang doesnt' need gaurd points to beat Tsubaki... he just hit "A" and almost all ur stuff is shut down.. And reason why you feel you can jump in on bang or whatever is cause he doesn't have a proper anti air while ragna does.
Hawka Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Minus the charge time I've noticed, wish akys would patch in a full meter every time a round starts or something like that, hell, I'll take even half the gauge <_< Good points, I still feel Bang, while certainly annoying (though to be fair he's the same with everyone) is still not quite as bad as Ragna is. Then again, they are in the Top Tiers for a reason, so I guess we shouldn't feel TOO Bad
Ginseng Posted January 13, 2010 Author Posted January 13, 2010 bang mashes buttons, tsubaki gets outdamaged. its a match up of how to get around bang's mashing Bang presses 5A, Tsubaki loses the fact that Ragna is so hard for tsubaki, isn't because he got an Anti Air and you can't do anything to him... its the fact that he has better moves then you in general. He just does everythign Better then you... Tsubaki moves has Auto Turn around, but the thing is if Bang does a guard point where you did the wrong move, you gona get killed. besides bang doesnt' need gaurd points to beat Tsubaki... he just hit "A" and almost all ur stuff is shut down.. And reason why you feel you can jump in on bang or whatever is cause he doesn't have a proper anti air while ragna does. I totally agree with all of this :/
Dacidbro Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Figured I'd drop by and see if I could help, this matchup suuuucks. Unfortunately I can't really help you out with answers, but I can list some of Bang's more dangerous options in hope that you guys can see them coming before it hits. First off, and most clearly, Bang's 5A is absurd. With meter, it's 4k off an easy combo, so unless you like to lose you have to find some way to not take the 7-or-so frame poke. I know, this is an impossible note, but it has to be mentioned. This is going to be the most common way to lose quickly. I don't really know what to say here. Second, Bang seems to win in air to air too. Tsubaki's aerials seem to be too slow to beat out Bang's jA and j4C, and his spaced jB is going to beat any of your aerial pokes too. If he's in the air and you're in the air, probably your best bet is to try to land and use your AA move, Ginseng was hitting me with that with pretty solid consistency, it seems to at the very least force Bang to block in most cases, as it's pretty quick; there's one thing that beats it though, Dnails is going to beat it clean, so be careful. Thirdly, Bang has scary as all hell airunblockable resets, and they tend to be really hard to see coming. If the combo did ~3k damage and finished with a j623B at moderate height, if you tech before hitting the ground be sure to barrier, because that's a free 6C reset if the Bang knows that particular reset. I would generally recommend teching off the ground or after he takes an extra 5A or 5B for negligible damage, as if you tech on the ground a Bang trying to 6C you will whiff and you'll get a free combo. I don't really know what to say, this matchup is horrid. Respect Bang's Dnails, try to be patient, and pray to god you guess right a lot. Ginseng, if you want I could try to bounce back and forth a couple thoughts if you think you have any answers to what I was talking about above.
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