[CS1] Carl Clover Combos: 2]D[ is 104% multiplier

[Isuyaru]

Yeah. Both can be done in the same situations, except this one does more damage (about 900 more) and most likely works on all characters (2C combo does not work on Hazama and has issues working on Arakune; I haven't tested this combo on all characters yet, but it works on those two).

Edit: I'll record it when I get a replacement AC adapter for my laptop, hopefully before the weekend.

[Zoogstin]

I'm having trouble deciding what do after after a 4D in a combo. I need to rant.

What I usually do is 5C j.B 214C into 8D. Its easy to do which is what I like but the height at which it sends the opponent towards the 8D makes the opponent susceptible to that stupid fast fall that 8D can sometimes cause. That and sometimes nirvana is too far and the opponent recovers before they hit the 8D. For the most part I have a lot of success with this but the aformentioned problems are annoying regardless.

The other option is the 5C sj.B jc.2C 214C into 8D. This is harder for me to do especially when I'm on the left side because everytime I super jump I can't help but do 2369 thus I risk doing a vivace instead of jump B. That and while on the left side my hand gets retarded and i can't do the jc. 2C properly. But the main problem is that no matter which side I do it on I often get the opponent too high and have them sore over the 8D. The only way to correct this is to properly monitor your opponent's height after the wall bounce and you want to hit them with 5C as low the ground as possible. I find this annoying because I don't want to have to put up with MORE places in a Carl's combo where I have to monitor spacing. The volante and 4D parts of his combos are annoying enough.

The good thing about this alternative is that it does a little bit more damage, will always send the opponent far enough to hit 8D, and it almost always puts the opponent in the right position so they won't fast fall from the 8D.

So in conclusion: 5C j.B 214C into 8D have situational problems that seem out of my control, while 5C sj.B jc.2C 214C into 8D has an annoying executional boundary.

What are your guy's preference?

[ZONG_one]

I like the second, but only if I know it's going to hit 8D.

I'm not so great at knowing yet, based on the wallbounce, so it's rare that I go for it.

I'll take safety & consistency > a couple hundred extra damage if I'm unsure.

[soujiro seta]

dio proves that combos arent important

LMAO, yeah Dio is 100% reset minded. He only goes for resets. He never does 2D loops, or volante/4D combos, and when he does air combos he ends them in allegretto for some reason. The only time he goes for optimal damage is during ground loops. There are times when, as a zong said, he could have gotten like 4.5K meterless had he done a 2D/volante/4D, but instead he opts for some measly 2.5 - 3k combo in the air o_O. I don't know if feels he doesn't need carl's air combos or what, but at times im like "you just hit confirmed with CH brio/2D, that's like an easy 4.5k-5.5k meterless what are you doing Dio". When he's in the corner he abuses the 5C 8D reset too much. People already know not to tech in the air and get hit by 8D anymore. I prefer style of the other carl player (the pink-carl who made that high-fired combo vid, kyaku, esuke (spelling?), carls from a-cho)----Reset minded, but they do the optimal combos when given the chance.

He's very good, but I prefer the other carls, as their style is more similar to mine. There are many times when he would have won had he done the more damaging combos.

New j.B FC summon combo:

j.B FC 22D IAD j.2C allecan 5C 623]D[ 236A (7jump 8doublejump) j.B allegretto 8]D[, IAD j.2C]D[ j.C (2D hits), j.2C allecan 5C 421]D[ j.2C allecan 5C 4]D[ j.B (4D hits), dash 5C sj.B dj.2C allegretto 8]D[, IAD j.2C]D[ j.B (2D hits), j.2C allegretto 8]D[

Alternatively:

j.B FC 22D IAD j.2C allecan 5C 623]D[ 236A (7jump 8doublejump) j.B allegretto 8]D[, IAD j.2C]D[ j.C (2D hits), j.2C allecan 5C 421]D[ j.2C allecan 5C 421]D[, j.2C allecan j.B j.C 8]D[, j.2C]D[ j.C (2D hits) j.2C]D[ j.B (2D hits), j.2C allegretto 8]D[

Both do about 5.9k meterless (optional fermata off of two-hit clap for 6.8k), 80 heat gain. Commas represent places where you can deactivate Nirvana before her next move.

5.9k meterless o_O form FC j.B?????? I'll try those myself but i'm not sure how it will turn out. My execution is so sloppy right now and I haven't played in a while. I def look forward to seeing on video if you get the chance to record it.

So in conclusion: 5C j.B 214C into 8D have situational problems that seem out of my control, while 5C sj.B jc.2C 214C into 8D has an annoying executional boundary.

What are your guy's preference?

To make the 5C j.B 214C 8D always work, what I do is 5C (7)j.B]D[ j.214C. This way 7D(8D) comes out after j.B and your opponent will get hit with the shockwave from the clap after allegretto. With this method they will always slowly fall after 8D, rather than fast fall. Hope that helps.

For me it depends on the distance. I use 5C (7)j.B]D[ j.allegretto when nirvana is close, like after a counter hit brio. But in most 4D incorporated combos, assuming you aren't in the corner, you have to do 5C sjc j.B dj.2C 8D allegretto cause if you don't 2D will whiff when you IAD in for the 2D loop. I was having trouble with the 5C sjc....at first and wanted to cheat my way by just simply doing the first one in 4D loops, but I realized that 2D would always whiff after the IAD j.2C j.C part, so I had no choice but to learn the 5C sjc... one. The only way you can get away with this is if you're close to the corner and you want to do a 4D combo. You can use the first option cause nirvana will be closer, but at like midscreen you have to use the second one.

At least we don't have to do the 44 j.2C j.C dj.2C 8D allegretto version all the time. Jesus that one frustrates me.

[soujiro seta]

I like the second, but only if I know it's going to hit 8D.

I'm not so great at knowing yet, based on the wallbounce, so it's rare that I go for it.

I'll take safety & consistency > a couple hundred extra damage if I'm unsure.

All 4D combos from midscreen require the 2nd one. If you're closer to the corner and do a 4D combo you can use the first one cause the 2nd one will push them too far.

EDIT

Although sometimes there are some exceptions at midscreen. Sometimes the 2nd one, every now and then, might push them a bit too far and the first one would have been the better choice. It happens everynow and then, but when in doubt

Midscreen 4D combo - 2nd

Corner 4D combo - 1st

[soujiro seta]

^^^the edited part usually happens if you do the midscreen 4D combo with nirvana being really close to you. Since she is so close the 4D doesn't push your opponent too far off screen, so the first one will work and the second one might push them a bit too far.

If she isn't too close then the 2nd one is the way too go. This has happened to me a few times. After practicing a bit you'll kinda know when she's too close, but when in doubt always use those up top ^^

[Zoogstin]

thanks for the info soujiro.

the thing is I've never had a problem with 2D being too far, just 8D. 8D being too far is usually my reason needed to do the 2nd combo. =/

[Angel]

5.9k meterless o_O form FC j.B?????? I'll try those myself but i'm not sure how it will turn out. My execution is so sloppy right now and I haven't played in a while. I def look forward to seeing on video if you get the chance to record it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE3ATxHr1O0

I don't think it's the same combo, but here's 5.9K meterless from FC j.B.

Edit: I watched that video before but I can't right now. If he uses Fermata at the end of those I apologize.

Double Edit: Just watched it again, and it does end with Fermata. Oops. :shy:

[Isuyaru]

Here's the 5.9k meterless j.B FC video.

[soujiro seta]

Here's the 5.9k meterless j.B FC video.

Thank you so much. Wow, that's crazy.

Question: after the FC j.B and you IAD in, when do you summon nirvana exactly? As you're IADing in?

[Zeero]

I think its more of a jB 22D iad looking at the timing but im not sure.

The only thing I don't like about that combo is the fact that I never really have Nirvana sitting around doing nothing (free to summon) whenever I'm actually jumping in, but thats just me.

Awesome combo though.

[ZONG_one]

I don't think it's super viable/practical, but good combos = good combos.

Good to have on film for reference, anyway.

Also, even if it's not THAT practical, it could still be done in a match, if you're ready for it.

[Kyle]

Good point, there's got to be a few guaranteed punishes which only apply in the air. Midscreen Reversal Hazama (Jaik-something) comes to mind.

[Zeero]

yea its more of a punishment sorta thing...

jump the 720 and do a reverse 5.9k on tager instead?! oh yeaaaaaa.

edit: oh man, i was trying out that combo for like 30 minutes and there was all sorts of fail. Only tried getting the first part down as the rest are like any other combo sorta...

jB FC, summon, iad j2c allecan, 5c, brio, vivace, sjc jB allegretto 8d

Heres all the fails i got.

1. If i did the summon too early (jB 22D instantly when jB hits), Nirvana is too far away for Brio to hit as she teleports halfway through Carl's iad

2. If i did the summon too late (jB, land, 22d, iad), Nirvana hasn't recovered from the teleport for 5C Brio to hit.

3. I had all sorts of fail trying to do 5C brio because im an execution scrub, kept on getting 6C. If i left too much of a delay they tech.

4. 5C 623]D[ 236A (executed that way) is too slow for superjump B to connect afterwards. You need to do 5C 6236]D[ A which was hard on my fingers/hands

5. superjump jB whiffs because brio knocked them too high or the initial j2C was done when they are too high

6. Sometimes allegretto -> 8D is techable, probably because nirvana was badly positioned starting from the beginning

yea =(

IMO, not a confirmable combo.

[ioKain]

Question/Suggestion. Last night I was working on some throw combos. I was trying to do a 5B+C, 22D, IAD, J.2C to start and I couldn't ever get the J.2C to land. The IAD would always go too far for the J.2C to land. I was just watching LaetabilisCantata's throw combo vid and it looks like he actually jumps back then air dashes forward. Is this the only way to make the J.2C hit? If so, I thought maybe you could update the first post to save some confusion in the future.

[ZONG_one]

Zeero, I was working on that too.

And it is HELLA hard to confirm. Not just midscreen, but anywhere.

I doubt I'd go for it in a match, because I'm unsure how to even tell if it's guaranteed at any given FCH j.B.

Question/Suggestion. Last night I was working on some throw combos. I was trying to do a 5B+C, 22D, IAD, J.2C to start and I couldn't ever get the J.2C to land. The IAD would always go too far for the J.2C to land. I was just watching LaetabilisCantata's throw combo vid and it looks like he actually jumps back then air dashes forward. Is this the only way to make the J.2C hit? If so, I thought maybe you could update the first post to save some confusion in the future.

Yes, 7jump, then airdash.

Also, for an easier variant.

B+C > 22D > release 2D > j.2C allecan > 2D hit > vivace A works great.

[ioKain]

Nice, thanks I'll give that a shot. I'd like to give a quick shout out to you guys. This is the third character I've undertaken since CT and Carl's forum is by far the most organized/informative I've seen. It's made the daunting process of learning Carl a whole lot easier. Just wanted to say thanks.

[ZONG_one]

You can thank Kyle for the organization, as I'm lacking in that dept.

I just try to provide any info I have on stuff, and hope it helps somewhat.

We could always use more Carl players.

[The Noble Clap]

So there's like, more than 12 now?

Awesome

[Zeero]

theres also

B+C > 22D > vivace A > 7 iad j2c jc 2d

or even

B+C > 22D > vivace A > walk towards opponent a bit > 9j2c jc 2d

I don't know what maximizes damage.

[ZONG_one]

Essentially, they're all the same.

Throw > j.2C > 2D is the end result.

[The Noble Clap]

I just made the laziest unblockable ever.

You can do at the start of a match vs Hakumen 4C or a mid poke

Drill Breaker and B Vivace at the same time.

6C Full Charge.

If you do it right you get around them and start the wind up for 6C a little before Drill hits/Blocked.

If drill hits OR Blocks it works and can begin a sammich or loop.

[ZONG_one]

This isn't a true unblockable.

Drill would be over long before your 6C would be fully charged.

[The Noble Clap]

Really?

It worked before.

Maybe I let go of it too early?

Will go check later

Playing Reach

EDIT: Rephrase time.

They do a poke at start/close enough for B vivace.

Then you B Vivace.

Or A, if they do it even closer

Now the way I said it before was wrong, its more of an unblockable punishy thing

For it to work horse need to be all leik "neigh" and starts moving its legs before Focuo Connects.

It should work that way, if not, I blame lag for making work the first time.

[Kyle]

Too risky, Carl is open for CH's until/if fuoco connects. =/