GG:AC Official Tier List Thread

[GreasyGyro718]

lol Johnny's 60% combos are more damaging than Sol's 60% combos?? D:

definitely. what is this johnny fan boy shieetttt. not gonna lie though, johnny gets all the bitches he wants. I think it's his abs. :X

[4r5]

Johnny-Sol: 5-5, in Johnny's favor.

[Henaki]

poscrub translate that character you used to play :[

[Harem]

Johnny-Sol: 5-5, in Johnny's favor.

orz

*hops on bandwagon*

anji pl0x

[低姿勢]

Just read the stuff... Yea .. the maximum damage reasoning is lost on me. Some of the stuff doesnt make sence ethier... ky certainly does more then 40% off "maximum" damage to say as well. Oh well... Again I dont see how unblocakbles count for max, but if thats how they want to say... Anywho nothing of to much paticular intrest... Oh and ill never understand how one character can be good vs another, but then that character isnt bad vs the character that is good vs him shrug. Oh well I just read the character stuff, maybe theres more reasoning in the rest of the thread... Though then again that isnt just the first thing of course so why someone would take this as 100% fact I dunno. EDIT: Oops forgot... SHRUG.

[CrimsonDisaster]

Johnny-Sol: 5-5, in Johnny's favor.

The real difference between Sol and Johnny is that sometimes you block Sol's mixup and sometimes you get hit by Johnny's.

Also consider yourself sigged.

I'm really curious about these discussions now... if only I could read moonspeak. I'd really like to contribute some of the American scene's thoughts on AC... what's Japanese for "money match ft10 for $100 bet it BET IT BET IT?"

[Spirit Juice]

lol Johnny's 60% combos are more damaging than Sol's 60% combos?? D:

I think their point was that with tension Johnny's combo does more damage (i.e. it'd do shit damage without KJ FRC), as opposed to Sol where his max damage doesn't really go up even if you use tension to try to add damage (you can use meter to set up his CLSW loop, but they don't necessarily add damage to them).

At least that's the way I interpretted it. @_@

[Chomite]

orz

*hops on bandwagon*

anji pl0x

Hey, Anji moved up a tier list @_@/ Horray

[Harem]

The real difference between Sol and Johnny is that sometimes you block Sol's mixup and sometimes you get hit by Johnny's.

Also consider yourself sigged.

I'm really curious about these discussions now... if only I could read moonspeak. I'd really like to contribute some of the American scene's thoughts on AC... what's Japanese for "money match ft10 for $100 bet it BET IT BET IT?"

They'd just end up calling you a KEYBOARD CRUSHER. : (

[CrimsonDisaster]

I think their point was that with tension Johnny's combo does more damage (i.e. it'd do shit damage without KJ FRC), as opposed to Sol where his max damage doesn't really go up even if you use tension to try to add damage (you can use meter to set up his CLSW loop, but they don't necessarily add damage to them).

At least that's the way I interpretted it. @_@

That's what I thought, too... even though that makes absolutely no sense, since Sol still does as much/more than Johnny off non-prorated setups, not counting bad "1-hit Ensenga -> mist FRC -> lol all my tension gone to do 70% if I was lucky" setups. So obviously Sol's "maximum" damage is fairly similar.

If it meant "lol damage goes up a lot when you have tension" then the list is still kinda suspect. I mean technically Zappa can insta-stun with CH 2H RC combos on most of the cast (might not even need the CH on some characters) but you don't see that coming up in the discussion (and that's a pretty drastic damage increase lol)

[koogy]

slayer plz

[RoBoBOBR]

+1 for slayer plz

[POscrub]

I agree with Final Showdown. Dont' expect anything new or ground breaking here. Sol Average damage B: Combos involving CL Sidewinders can do around 40-50%, Grand Viper leads into an air combo for no tension. More opportunities to land air combos. Max damage C: Not even taking into account forced proration, CL Sidewinder loop does about 60%. Pokes C: 2D, K, j.P, j. HS, and lots of good stuff up close. Gunflame nerfed. (less active frames, startup slower by 1F). Breaking out of pressure A: Volcanic Viper, Grand Viper, Riot Stomp (is airborne, flies faster?, can lead into CL Sidewinder followup) Mixup C: Wild Throw. Gunflame startup/active frames nerfed. Pressure D: I think Sol as a character is better suited going for the mixup as soon as possible. Okizeme C： Gunflame nerf hurts. FB Fafnir being invincible throws is useful from time to time. Against ground B: j. HS is all around excellent. Against shorter/low profile opponents, use j.S which has a better downwards hitbox. Against air S: Volcanic Viper, j.P, 5K. Nothing controls as much vertical space as Sol's HS VV. Although there is a large gap. [goes up forwards, can get around it] Defense C: Average, middle of the road. Damage modifier x1.0. Gravity/Weight x1.0 In general situations C: Doesn't have much reach, but 2D is fast and gets down low, 5K, and random grand viper for biiiig damage. Overall B： Damage has improved in general, but VV lost some power with increased recovery, Gunflame has been nerfed, and no tension Fafnir is gone. [People actually used that move?] Sol is no longer the all rounded character he was in Slash。Not as noob friendly, Sol is more specialized now。 Good matchups: I-no (Sol is good at AA, bad matchup)、Anji(weak to Sol's fast and low 2D) Bad matchups: Potemkin (although based on [slash] experience, Sol has trouble with early Pot 5H, and a lot of his moves are PB bait.)

[Spirit Juice]

Fafnir had more uses as a normal move than it does as a FB now, unfortunately.

[unsmart]

Fafnir > Tyrant Rave does damn good chip damage. I think spending 50% to use it like a rushing Captain Corridor AA that can cross-up is a better idea than 25% as a dumb ground poke that gets beat by everything. I have yet to see its strike invincibility actually work. On topic, yeah, all that reasoning is suspect while worded that way.

[CrimsonDisaster]

The followup to Fafnir does pretty good damage. Enough to justify using 50% tension on it? Well... let's say on Eddie, corner- K(1 hit) > 6P XX CLGV(2 hits), jD XX CLSW, land, dash c.S > 2H JC jS XX CLSW, land, 2H XX BR = ~235 K(1 hit) > 6P XX CLGV(2 hits), whiff Fafnir > Tyrant Rave, jump back jS XX CLSW, straight up jS XX CLSW... dunno how to end in knockdown because I'm too lazy to mess with it more at 5am, but it's 250+ damage as it stands. So at most it's adding like... 30-40ish damage if you finish the combo. 50% tension for 30 damage? AWESOME.

[EasyModeNub]

+2 for slayer plz

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

unsmart: Fafnir is throw invincible, not strike invincible. I didn't realize that Gun Flame was toned down from Slash. That seems pretty silly.

[AKA]

its not that great

I would put slayer or venom in there instead of her or maybe even sol

All I know is that it fucking hurts when it hits me, but that's Jam for you. Her close S or parry would be better AA I guess, so my bad.

While we're on the subject, this isn't exactly true. It doesn't lead to anything aerial ordinarily, since there are very few moves you'll actually catch in the air with it (17F startup, dammit). There are only exceptions like Sol's riot stomp and whatever. Most air attacks will have landed before the hit, and then your only chance for a combo is that the opponent is so confused by their attack whiffing that you'll get a hit in anyway. Doesn't help that the range is terrible so you can only even try if the opponent is right on top of you, meaning you risk that their attack hits anyway if it's directed downwards.

To sum up, it is still not much of an antiair. For some special cases it's nice, but still just no.

It only beats Jams DP safely, and with her a 6P oki means huuuge risk of parry into death. With Ky there is precise timing for 6P to beat his DP (which can be learned pretty well for rise ups though). All the other DPs eat 6P for lunch.

It only wins over very few dead angles. I can only think of Eddie's and Potemkin's at the moment, but I think there was one more. Almost all DAA win cleanly.

So yeah, still a great move what with the mixups and all, but it didn't suddenly become MOVE OF THE CENTURY because of the invuln.

Just sayin'. This is just going for utility, even if it doesn't beat out a lot of things (I could've sworn close S -> 6P was delayable, allowing you to go through DAA's more easily, but that's speculation). Meaning, in what it does for the character compared to other character's 6P's. Since his is an overhead, I'd rank it in top 3 regardless, but that's my criteria. I won't argue with a Testament specialist though, so thanks for the clarification.

Tierlist: Maybe I'm oversimplifying things, but I'd think the reason Johnny's damage is ranked so much higher is because it's easier for him to hit with a poke into big damage by playing off of space control. Sol does comparable damage, but he needs specific moves or mixups to hit. Johnny can literally hitconfirm into low MF from just poking, and he essentially controls the ground with that threat in ways Sol does not (safely). Of course other parts of that list don't make sense, as the rules for its interpretation are entirely arbitrary. But we play an arbitrary game, so this will go in circles for a while.

[koogy]

johnny's damage is high because he hits you and he's a god damn cheater

[Doren2k]

Translate awesome Jam. Woot woot.

[Mike Z]

+2 for Pot, although we pretty much all know what makes him good anyway. Mike Z

[Spirit Juice]

The followup to Fafnir does pretty good damage. Enough to justify using 50% tension on it?

Well... let's say on Eddie, corner-

K(1 hit) > 6P XX CLGV(2 hits), jD XX CLSW, land, dash c.S > 2H JC jS XX CLSW, land, 2H XX BR = ~235

K(1 hit) > 6P XX CLGV(2 hits), whiff Fafnir > Tyrant Rave, jump back jS XX CLSW, straight up jS XX CLSW... dunno how to end in knockdown because I'm too lazy to mess with it more at 5am, but it's 250+ damage as it stands.

So at most it's adding like... 30-40ish damage if you finish the combo. 50% tension for 30 damage? AWESOME.

lulz definitely not worth it D:

Makes for some cool looking combos though.

unsmart: Fafnir is throw invincible, not strike invincible.

I didn't realize that Gun Flame was toned down from Slash. That seems pretty silly.

Yeah... I didn't know that GF was toned down from Slash. It seems like it was an unnecessary nerf on ASW's part. Slash Sol wasn't broken per say, except maybe his uppercut was a bit OP, but he happened to be really good because a lot of other top characters lost their bullshit from #R. Oh well. Guess I'll update the change list in my guide. D:

[koogy]

lulz definitely not worth it D:

Makes for some cool looking combos though.

Yeah... I didn't know that GF was toned down from Slash. It seems like it was an unnecessary nerf on ASW's part. Slash Sol wasn't broken per say, except maybe his uppercut was a bit OP, but he happened to be really good because a lot of other top characters lost their bullshit from #R. Oh well. Guess I'll update the change list in my guide. D:

I think Slash Sol without 2K -> 6P gatling would be pretty dope still. :o

[Dr. Stormlocke]

+ 10101 for Robo please.