BB:CS Match-Up Chart

[feri]

SD is relevant, cause nobody here is going to manually test it.

Edit: also knowing for sure, random things like AA invul is head property rather than above body. Or x move is invul to lows from frame 2 rather than frame one...

Sure you can find it out from manually testing it but I can guarantee you'll miss stuff.

[Lord Knight]

Let people play Mu for at least a month or so

So far she feels all right, she has some good tools, just gotta wait to see what people do with them.

[A.X.I.S.]

she has just been released a few days ago and people want to talk match ups...what the hell.

[Black Onslaught]

pre-CS release

Mu-12 match ups

10-0 vs everyone, Mu's favor

CS-release

0-10 vs everyone but rachel, everyone's favor

10-0 Mu vs Rachel, Mu's favor

there.

[smooshman]

the only thing that can be said about Mu's matchups at this moment is that she has them.

[currentlemon]

What can you guys say about Rachel vs Arakune and Hazama?

[A.X.I.S.]

rachel's "zoning" still works on them.

[worldjem7]

Getting ready for new characters. http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa108/worldjem7/bbcsmatchup3a.png

I'm guessing the time new match-up data will be ready is when the Japanese are ready to give it.

Tweaked the first post a bit.

[Jason D.]

What can you guys say about Rachel vs Arakune and Hazama?

Ah, yes, her "even" match-ups. I've been wondering about these too, and I'd love to hear another Rachel player's opinions on them. Personally, I think the information is just old. Like, before they discovered a lot of Arakune's 100% curse and 10k+ damage stuff, and before Hazama players learned how to use him properly. But okay, here's my take on it.

First off, Arakune. 50-50 doesn't seem too far off, considering that he can't do much before he has her cursed. But even so, his 5C is still an excellent (and curse-filled) anti-air, and Rachel has no real way to stop him from approaching in with his j.B. So with that in mind, he CAN actually fight back pre-curse. But overall, rushing him down works fairly well in the beginning, although with his teleport dash, air backdash teleport, and his natural tendency to jump and chicken block, it's not too hard for Arakune to get himself back to a neutral position. At a distance it's just Rachel throwing random lobelias, and Arakune creating a maze of clouds and bugs in the center of the screen and daring her to run into them. Oh, and George doesn't ever do much since Arakune's usually in the air. The fight is pretty stupid at this point, but I'd say slightly in Arakune's favor since it only takes three hits until...

Curse time! Arakune's fever mode is incredibly bad for Rachel. No reversals. Once she's cursed, it's basically 16 seconds of Rachel in block stun, having to deal with mix-ups, cross-ups, and frame traps. One mistake and the round can be over. And even one mistake with only three seconds of curse left can still be extremely painful. Curse mode is extremely in Arakune's favor, but that should be obvious.

Overall it's kind of hard to rate this match-up, since it's not so much about who's doing damage, but Rachel's damage vs. Arakune's curse moves. The basic idea is: DON'T GET CURSED. Until then, she can hold her own. After that, she gets raped. Unfortunately, due to her low damage output and his instant-curse combos, it's not so easy to get through the entire round with putting him into a fever. And for that I'd say the match is slightly in his favor.

Now, Rachel v. Hazama. Man, where to start. I hate this match-up. Well, let's start at the beginning. When I first started playing CS, this match-up seemed pretty even on paper. Both characters did a lot of zoning, and both had some pretty low-damage bnb combos. Unfortunately, it seems the Hazama players learned a lot more tricks since then, and left Rachel players behind.

First off, zoning. Rachel throws lobelias, Hazama throws chains. Both are probably jumping around like idiots, and trying to get that perfect angle in so that they can hit the other without a projectile collision. The only thing is, let's say Rachel hits him. One fireball of damage, and then maybe a Sword Iris (lightning) if she was ready. That's it. If Hazama hits her with a chain, he has about a month to hit-confirm it and then pull himself in for a full bnb combo. About 2.2k, or so? Plus oki and a lot of meter gain. Just in general, chains own lobelias. They don't depend on a limited resource (wind), they fly out faster, and they are way better at doing damage afterwards. Hazama wins at zoning.

At close range, they're fairly even when at neutral. 5A, 2A, and 5B are pretty similar for both characters. (Though I'd give Hazama's 5B the nod for its crazy frame advantage.) Standing slightly further back, Hazama's 3C owns everything she does. And of course, all these close and medium range moves of his are pretty easy to hit-confirm into his bnbs.

When Hazama's on the offense, Rachel can't do much to stop him. Maybe cat chair an overhead kick. But mostly she just has to wait until he's done. And since she can't 6A his j.B or j.C, he can get in whenever he wants. Bad on defense isn't new to her, but certainly doesn't help the matchup. And the fact that he has a command grab makes his pressure against her just slightly better than average.

Unfortunately, Hazama can't be rushed down by Rachel in the same way. His super kick makes it VERY dangerous to do any long blockstrings. Hazama IBs, Rachel's kissing the sky, big damage. He certainly can do this with most George, pumpkin, and lobelia traps too. Any trade is totally in his favor. And with his meter gain, he almost always has this deterrent active.

So yeah, in conclusion, I'd say this match-up is easily in Hazama's favor, and I'm actually curious to know why they've said 5-5. He may not be able to kill you in three bnbs like the top three, but he also does more damage than Rachel, has easier hit-confirms, and he owns every position the match could be in. Long-range, short, offense (obviously), defense (surprisingly)... it's all good for him. In fact, in most of my own matches against good Hazamas, all I can do is wait for him to make a mistake, and then capitalize on it. And that's not a good sign.

[Dacidbro]

And don't forget that Hazama has a command grab that makes even the cat chair a worse reversal than it already is, and her defense breaks down even further.

Luckily, only Japan seems to use it!

Oh, and with Jayakou, he actually can kill all characters in 2 BnBs, assuming he has the meter for it both times. Jayakou combos can go from 4k-6.5k, dependant on starter and fatal. So if it's a reversal, you die fast.

[Spirit Juice]

Getting ready for new characters. http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa108/worldjem7/bbcsmatchup3a.png

I'm guessing the time new match-up data will be ready is when the Japanese are ready to give it.

Tweaked the first post a bit.

Good god this is a terrible idea until Japan actually comes out with a concrete match up chart for those new characters.

[worldjem7]

Well, obviously I'm not posting that, Spirit Juice. I was just showing people I'm not dead.

[Skye]

We need more American pioneers.

Rachel vs Arakune stuffs

That's mostly right from what I've seen in match ups. But I'd say that cursing Rachel is harder than most and Arakune's 10500 doesn't digest Rachel's 1.9-2k combos, Arakune does less damage to her and she has more HP.

When Rachel is cursed she can win herself out in the smallest hole and stall for a good 10 seconds, this basically makes Arakune use specific set ups as to only make a hole big enough to catch her not blocking.

[Spirit Juice]

I was just showing people I'm not dead.

Okay. That's good.

[Dacidbro]

We need more American pioneers.

That's mostly right from what I've seen in match ups. But I'd say that cursing Rachel is harder than most and Arakune's 10500 doesn't digest Rachel's 1.9-2k combos, Arakune does less damage to her and she has more HP.

When Rachel is cursed she can win herself out in the smallest hole and stall for a good 10 seconds, this basically makes Arakune use specific set ups as to only make a hole big enough to catch her not blocking.

Bolded is misleading, there really should almost never be a small hole.

Although it's interesting, as Rachel you could DELIBERATELY eat a cloud then wind away, since in any other case Rachel's gonna get set up and bug oki'd. Lol. Something to think about, I guess. Definitely doesn't factor out 70-100% curses though.

[Skye]

Bolded is misleading, there really should almost never be a small hole.

Don't believe in frame traps?

[Dacidbro]

Why would you frame trap when you have 16 seconds of pure blockstun you can abuse for free mixups with instant vague cross ups?

I don't like theory fighter. I've seen real Ara play all the time. You aren't gonna be leaving holes.

[kid viper]

correction: hazama's jayoku combos range from 4k - 8k depending on meter/ch/location. on rachel though it's guaranteed 5k because of fat hitbox so he can do chain relaunch. hazama's BnB vs rachel ranges from the usual 3k up to 4k because of chain relaunch which also gives him 52% meter and oki which makes the matchup even worse for rachel

[Dacidbro]

Jesus, 8k now? Lol. Thanks for the correction. Hotenjin for best move in the game; it's single handedly keeping Hazama high tier.

[kid viper]

jayoku combo went up to 8k for a while now. it's been foudn out that hazama can do an unreasonable 10k combo if he wanted to but it is pointless lolol

[FunkyP]

Why would you frame trap when you have 16 seconds of pure blockstun you can abuse for free mixups with instant vague cross ups?

I don't like theory fighter. I've seen real Ara play all the time. You aren't gonna be leaving holes.

Don't really mean to get involved here as i know next to nothing about Kune, however with this statement, there's a mechanic in the game that forces IB's after somewhere around 6 seconds of pure blockstun. Surely an Ara would rather go for resets or tech traps rather than wait to get IB'd then reversaled.

[kid viper]

that's what dacidbro was saying. with the bugs on the screen arakune can abuse it for free mixups that the opponent can't do anything about. it makes no sense to use frame traps when the curse is already in play.

[Skye]

Why would you frame trap when you have 16 seconds of pure blockstun you can abuse for free mixups with instant vague cross ups?

I don't like theory fighter. I've seen real Ara play all the time. You aren't gonna be leaving holes.

Yeah that's why you see players jump out all the time.

That's why you see Ragnas ID when cursed.

That's why you see other characters and player, yourself included, actually gain a small bit of momentum while cursed.

Cuz the lock down is so air tight.

[Dacidbro]

Yeah that's why you see players jump out all the time.

That's why you see Ragnas ID when cursed.

That's why you see other characters and player, yourself included, actually gain a small bit of momentum while cursed.

Cuz the lock down is so air tight.

We're talking about Rachel?! What, is she going to cat chair? Ara is often quite uncommited during bees, especially during the 3-5 or so frame holes, so write that off. Jump start up is 4 frames, so while you can dragon punch through a miniscule hole, you can't almost ever jump out and float away. And I only gain momentum during curse when Dabbit drops something, which I don't expect from him in a month, much less the duration of CS, and I would much rather not write dropped combo momentum into the book of matchups.

That being said, I'll give it to you, every now and then you may get some kind of bizarre lapse of action for a gimmick or what not, and if that does happen and you do know you won't get instagibbed by some bug flying in the second you try to do something (That's like, 75%+ what happens), you can try to jump. If you succeed, you can use your wind to try to run away. It won't work very often.

[Skye]

It's an option in the match up, and you can believe that Rachel players will do it if they think they can, which is why Arakune can leave a small hole, because people are defenseless during jump start up.

That's all I was saying.

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