BB:CS Match-Up Chart

[ShinsoBEAM]

and if you guys think bang is broke wait till you play kid vipers litchi.....makes you weep tears of blood.

This I am honestly more scared of litchi then I am bang right now.

[Zoogstin]

Yeah Litchi's a punk. Litchi only has one more even matchup than bang. They're practically the same tier-wise.

[A.X.I.S.]

litchi is worst than bang, with bang it feels like you can always punish a mistake since he's always in your face but litchi...fuck its impossible to get close sometimes.

i will learn to hate litchi more than scrubs hate nu.

also bang 5A...

[Irrsinn]

5A to 5K

[FunkyP]

Litchi has better lockdown, and zoning than Bang, and even higher damage, however she can pay dearly for making mistakes. She only has normal health and guard and if forced on the defense she can be pressured. Bang on the other hand though weaker in tools, can take quite a beating and stay defensive, he's fast and has quick get away options. Catching Bang is pretty tricky. Not to mention Litchi requires a considerably tougher learning and using curve than Bang.

Litchi is technically a much stronger character than Bang is, but Bang just gets easy wins.

[smooshman]

This I am honestly more scared of litchi then I am bang right now.

seconded foreverzz

but the probably I have with Bang is this:

he is fundamentally (ie stats and shit) broken (exaggerating a but).

he's a lightning bruiser, meaning he has above average everything (except maybe speed) as compared to the mario/jack (Jin) who is average in everyting. The standard way to balance this is to lower things like meter gain, less powerful normals/specials, less powerful supers, etc.

Meter: I think it's average but I haven't checked

Specials/normals: 5A to 5K, and maybe GP's.

supers: he has 4: one is safe on block, one is meh, the other 2 are Ragna's distortions but better.

this is my opinion and it is biased by my Jin rage of him being better in everything.

I think he just needs to be focused on his stats, he's got good damage and defense without sacrificing speed, and he has above average guard primers, he basically can do whatever he wants with impunity. His only limitation is his nails... but that isn't a problem since he doesn't have rely on them the same way say, Jin relies on heat.

but this is my opinion, it's not like he's uber broken, just slightly, within acceptable reason and these things always happen in fighting games.

[corallein]

he's a lightning bruiser, meaning he has above average everything (except maybe speed) as compared to the mario/jack (Jin) who is average in everyting.

Except his range. And his damage in corners - the reliance on fire punch means that cornering someone doesn't actually get you more damage (except for throws into corner). And you don't think his speed is above average?

Specials/normals: 5A to 5K, and maybe GP's.

Err... 5A only gets to ~3.5k max with no meter. The 5k would require 100 meter (I think the 5A combo -> Daifunka -> Ashura is close to 5k, don't remember).

The main thing with Bang is that every poke leads to at least 2k damage. 2A, 5A, j.A/B. The damage output of his combos is pretty tame when compared to almost everyone else (including the other top tiers, Litchi and Ragna).

supers: he has 4: one is safe on block, one is meh, the other 2 are Ragna's distortions but better.

Except FRKZ doesn't lead to hilarious j.D spam combo like Blood Kain does

[smooshman]

Except his range. And his damage in corners - the reliance on fire punch means that cornering someone doesn't actually get you more damage (except for throws into corner). And you don't think his speed is above average?

Err... 5A only gets to ~3.5k max with no meter. The 5k would require 100 meter (I think the 5A combo -> Daifunka -> Ashura is close to 5k, don't remember).

The main thing with Bang is that every poke leads to at least 2k damage. 2A, 5A, j.A/B. The damage output of his combos is pretty tame when compared to almost everyone else (including the other top tiers, Litchi and Ragna).

Except FRKZ doesn't lead to hilarious j.D spam combo like Blood Kain does

first part- good point but I did say that I didn't know his speed

second- it's a joke bro, but most characters can't net 3.5k no meter, except Ragna and the like.

last- sure but FRKZ doesn't drain health, but it gives a speed boost and doesn't run out.

finally it's this a lightning bruiser doesn't the best at everything, but is above average at everything. he may not do the same damage as Ragna but he also doesn't take hits like a bitch, he may not be as good at zoning as... well Litchi and Lambda but he isn't screwed at close range, he may not have the health and primers of Tager but... well yeah, the point is that he may not have great damage or great health or whatever but he also doesn't have bad anything, he's above average in all stat based aspects.

in fact it might be better to say that he's no game breaker, just a tad overpowered.

[corallein]

second- it's a joke bro, but most characters can't net 3.5k no meter, except Ragna and the like.

That's a lie. Most characters can, just not with 5A

And I wasn't actually disputing that Bang is overpowered (he IS top tier for a reason). Just correcting a few of the points and/or making silly comparisons.

[Meever]

All I have to say is I fucking called the Hazama match up against Hakumen after a week of CS. Yeah, people on the DL totally snuffed me but after having my ouroboros swatted with speedy pokes and pressured into corners with very little escape options.

Bah, just means that I have to work that much harder to get better.

Too bad my two main rivals on the scene are Hakumen

[kenn305]

It doesn't work on Rachel. According to my dad who works at Nintendo Arc System Works told me that you have to beat Arakune 100 times with Hakumen at CT tournaments and then go through Hakumen's storymode and you'll get a secret option to Yukikaze the truck in Oriental Town and underneath it you'll get the ~*Lobelia Stone*~ which makes Rachel S tier in CS.

lol nicely down. to bad i released rachel.

[kid viper]

I thought he played Hazama....

Bang really just needs to have his proration values messed around with.

i main hazama but i play most the cast for fun/understanding the rest of the cast so i know their options.

litchi is moar dumb than bang. end of story :/

[ShinsoBEAM]

And I wasn't actually disputing that Bang is overpowered (he IS top tier for a reason). Just correcting a few of the points and/or making silly comparisons.

Yeah this in CS top tier doesn't feel broke, they just feel top tier.

[Irrsinn]

i main hazama but i play most the cast for fun/understanding the rest of the cast so i know their options.

litchi is moar dumb than bang. end of story :/

But why does he have one more good matchup than her and how is Litchi dumber than Bang if Litchi is harder to use?

[kid viper]

litchi's damage output is dumb, every combo takes you to the corner, gives you 50% meter for dumb oki, and is pretty robotic.

also in what aspects do you mean by harder to use?

[smooshman]

But why does he have one more good matchup than her and how is Litchi dumber than Bang if Litchi is harder to use?

ggggggggaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh

GODDAMN LONG COMBOS, I CAN"T STOP BLOCKING, CAN"T MOVE, WHEN DOES THIS BLOCKSTRING END

*RAGESOBBING*

[Ronove]

But why does he have one more good matchup than her and how is Litchi dumber than Bang if Litchi is harder to use?

I'd say it's her insane abare. She can go into high damage combos that lead to the corner off a huge variety of situations and occasional/situational hits. It almost feels like in certain matchups (like vs Tao, heh I'm speaking from personal experience here ) she doesn't even need a "gameplan" at all, just hitconfirm something and control space around her, not to mention she can rushdown pretty well now. She might not have the same kind of "oki mixup" that Bang has but she doesn't need it because she will force the opponent to pick an option due to the fact that she gets meter pretty fast.

[Irrsinn]

also in what aspects do you mean by harder to use?

A lot of shit, like this for example:

He used to be kinda hard but now he's easy. I don't even need to bother with 6D -> 9239B crap anymore in CS because he has way better combo options. When I first started using Bang in like July last year, it took me a week (I was and still am a newb at fighting games.) to learn how to do it right. Not to mention that dashes after 623B and j.623B were harder in CT...

And I used to actually use his command grabs a lot more often since his default damage was around 2k or so in CT... And I used bumpers because I could sacrifice only about 300-400 damage to start another combo if I can guess correctly. It was rewarding and fun to use all the options available to him, not to mention satisfying since I had to work hard for my wins.

Now, it's just wallbounce after wallbounce, chasing my opponents around and spamming 5A and 5B. I try to make it "hard" for myself by going into FRKZ and trying to learn combos, but really, that doesn't help a lot.

One good thing from CS Bang that I managed to apply to CT Bang is FRKZ combos. Before CS came out, the only combo I knew how to do in FRKZ Bang was 5A/j.4C/j.C, 5B, 2B, 2C, 6-dash cancel, 5D, j.D, 3-dash cancel, j.D, 2C. But now, I can do some fancy ones that require me to do j.B -> j.D ones in the air...

But other than that, I miss CT Bang.

It doesn't help that I started using this PSN and account after CS came out, so I probably get counted as one of the tier whores.

[huey253]

because.....

Rebel 1 Action

you jump,

litchi hits you with 2C

5k damage later 50 heat...litchi decides to end her combo with daishra.

now you have to block invisible mixup correctly for 4 seconds. if you fail, litchi gets another 4k and 40 percent meter...

[smooshman]

because.....

Rebel 1 Action

litchi hits you

5k damage later 50 heat...litchi decides to end her combo with daishra.

now you have to block invisible mixup correctly for 4 seconds. if you fail, litchi gets another 4k and 40 percent meter...

fixed... er.... simplified

[kid viper]

that did not explain anything for me.

Litchi being able to combo off 5a makes combos easier, does heavy damage, takes you to corner, gives her 50% to put you into a situation where you have to eat a mixup all day or eat another combo and put back into the same situation. her rushdown got stronger, her guardbreak game is stronger than bang's. she still has good mixups (slightly under bang's). her meterless combos all do more damage than bang's and put her in better situations than bang does if he wants to go for damage.

Bang still plays the way as he did in CT. The difference is his 5a is actually consistent on every character (sans tao). If he wants to do his heavy damage (3.7 meterless) then positioning wise he's put into neutral and loses his oki/mixups and Bang is all about oki/mixup. His damage compared to most of the cast is undoubtedly average. If bang gets knocked down he has to deal with more crap then litchi. bang requires good nail management. if bang uses up all his nails too fast then he has a hard time approaching just like in CT.

I like how people think that because someone's combos are *not so much harder to do* than other characters they think the character itself is hard to play.

Edit :

And I used to actually use his command grabs a lot more often since his default damage was around 2k or so in CT... And I used bumpers because I could sacrifice only about 300-400 damage to start another combo if I can guess correctly. It was rewarding and fun to use all the options available to him, not to mention satisfying since I had to work hard for my wins.

command grab and bumpers are what makes bang scary in this game. bang still has to work for his wins. like i said before, doing combos and actually playing a character are two different things. knowing how to use bang's options effectively is what makes him harder to use. everyone that says just spam 5a/5b do not understand that he has far stronger tools that make him more effective.

[Irrsinn]

Litchi combos off 5A? wtf.

[kid viper]

litchi can combo off 5a/2a all day long just like bang can

[Irrsinn]

But she's got better options, doesn't she? besides her A moves aren't that good.

As good as Bang's, I mean.

[kid viper]

Her 5a/2a does what any other 5a/2a does, it's a starter. yes she has options other than 5a/2a but the fact that she can do it unlike in CT means she doesn't have to worry.

you still have not answered how litchi is harder to use than bang yet.