[CS1-CSE] Tsubaki Self-Improvement and Critique Thread

[HajinShinobi]

Pfft. You woulda completely destroyed me if you hadn't dropped some of those combos. My awesome 236A 'reset' came through for me a couple of times though. (Okay, so that's really just me dropping that combo, but the way it works out actually leaves me at advantage. x.x) I REALLY need to learn the timing for reversals on wakeup, because everytime I try to DP or wakeup super it doesn't come out and I just get clobbered. x.x

Good games! I'm sorry about the connection though. I would've expected it to be better than that. =/

Yeah that's kinda what I meant, I dropped quite abit of my combos (which is rare because I dont drop combos unless there's latency afoot or I'm being slow), and my timing was abit off on other things too. But the connection wasnt really bad to be honest, it was fine for me. I just derped abit today lol. And good games indeed, looking forward to playing you again ~

[Airk]

It's that time again. I get to get whalloped on livestream. Whoo!

[HajinShinobi]

Good games again Airk, the matches were fun.

I just wish Koopa and I didnt lag, I knew it was because I saw lag spikes when he and that Hazama were playing, but I took a chance and gave it a try anyway. Wanted people to see me play but getting blown up in latency doesnt help lol...

[HexaNoid]

Uploaded this match video for Hajin so you guys can critique it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WpoUy8UQc8&feature=channel_video_title

[Kiba]

With the CH 22A you got, you should wait just a while longer to get the full IAD 236B - 214B - 2BB. You couldnt end it like that at that height because you followed up immediately when he was too high. I think you noticed that though, which is why you ended with JC combo.

Also with the 22D - Combo in the corner, if you find that the opponent has nearly lost you can take the easier option rather than doing the IAD to prevent a combo drop. 5C(w)C - 2CC - 22C - stuff.

I felt you were charging for a lil too long when the Ragna was running into you after a CA though. Which is why he hit you with HF followup.

Apart from that, loving that Tsubaki.

[HajinShinobi]

With the CH 22A you got, you should wait just a while longer to get the full IAD 236B - 214B - 2BB. You couldnt end it like that at that height because you followed up immediately when he was too high. I think you noticed that though, which is why you ended with JC combo.

Also with the 22D - Combo in the corner, if you find that the opponent has nearly lost you can take the easier option rather than doing the IAD to prevent a combo drop. 5C(w)C - 2CC - 22C - stuff.

I felt you were charging for a lil too long when the Ragna was running into you after a CA though. Which is why he hit you with HF followup.

Apart from that, loving that Tsubaki.

Thanks~

Also yeah, I'd only ever use a JC combo after a 22A CH if the opponent is too high, otherwise I normally do the IAD combo. I'll be sure to start letting them fall down abit more if they're that high from now on though, I just didnt want to risk losing some damage.

And you're definitely right about 22D corner combo near the end of a round. It's just that I'm so intuned at doing the IAD. Still, the 5C(w)C - 2CC - 22C route is much safer, I'll be sure to go that route when a round is in my favor from now on.

After watching the replay, I would agree that I did 5D charge too much. I did it about 3 times, trying to get that 2nd install. I should've just stayed at one, I tend to get greedy with charging, I need to stop that.

And thanks Hex for uploading the match for me, appreciate it.

[OrionXElite]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o4rUX9rrec&feature=feedu

So this is me playing Tsubaki in tournament. This is me half trolling NorCal cause its what I do best and half trying cause I'm still getting used to the character and I have no clue how to play against Litchi:v:

So aside from combos(Obvious thing I need to fix), what advice can you superiors give me to improve? I'm looking for changes that will help me grasp the character better as a whole rather than matchup specific stuff. But any help is greatly appreciated and I apologize if this embarrasses you guys as Tsubaki players :3

Edited October 4, 2011 by OrionXElite

[BeaverDeity]

I'm not too good of a Tsubaki player but some things I noticed so I'll give some tips:

-In the beginning you weren't really charging efficiently (like tapping 2D when far away instead of holding it down). You were doing better towards the end but if you learn the timing on her charging then you can get a lot more charge meter than what you were getting.

-I noticed a lot of 2CC whiffs during combos. If it looks like it's not going to connect, often times you can omit the 2CC during some aerial combos and go for a j.c->j.B->j.C->j.c->j.CC->j.236A->j.214C combo ender for some extra damage. It's not as good of oki as the ground corner carry combo, but if you're unsure if the 2CC is going to hit then it's better to at least nab some extra damage and charge meter.

-During the beginning I also noticed you weren't going for any overhead pressure but towards the end you were mixing it up a bit better which is good. The 6C jump cancel pressure is one of my favorite tricks, but you can also jump cancel 5B and 5C for some other fancy stuff. Just a tip, you can also do 22D after 5C, which can mix it up and do an unblockable reset by holding it down afterwards if they're expecting a jump cancel off of 5C.

-I think I only saw one throw attempt and that was an air throw. Tsubaki has some great tick throw setups thanks to charge cancelling (tapping 2D after moves) so you'd be even more gdlk if you tripped the opponent with some throws. :3

-Your combos were pretty solid but you dropped a few. That's to be expected from any player though so don't sweat it too much :p

-Overall you were pretty solid but it'd be great to see some more throws and unblockable setups (Which are especially good in the corner)

Everything else was great. You can be one of the best Tsubaki players if you give her some more practice (do want. MMMMMMMM)

Edited October 4, 2011 by BeaverDeity

[HajinShinobi]

-During the beginning I also noticed you weren't going for any overhead pressure but towards the end you were mixing it up a bit better which is good. The 6C jump cancel pressure is one of my favorite tricks, but you can also jump cancel 5B and 5C for some other fancy stuff. Just a tip, you can also do 22D after 6C, which can mix it up and do an unblockable reset by holding it down afterwards if they're expecting a jump cancel off of 6C.

You cant do any 22X series after a "blocked" 6C.

@Orion: I'm gonna leave the critiques to the better Tsu players. Pretty sure Airk, BatousaiJ and Kiba will do a much better job lol.

Edited October 4, 2011 by HajinShinobi

[BeaverDeity]

Oh yeah, my bad. I'm tired okaaaaay :c

[BeaverDeity]

Also here's a match of me playing in a local tournament:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/17176835

There's another one of my playing Tsubaki in there somewhere but It's just me getting raped by Sean so I didn't really get to show what my Tsubaki can do in it :o

And I know I dropped a lot of stuff but yea

Edit: This is a few weeks old

Double edit: but it's still pretty recent

[Kiba]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o4rUX9rrec&feature=feedu

So this is me playing Tsubaki in tournament. This is me half trolling NorCal cause its what I do best and half trying cause I'm still getting used to the character and I have no clue how to play against Litchi:v:

So aside from combos(Obvious thing I need to fix), what advice can you superiors give me to improve? I'm looking for changes that will help me grasp the character better as a whole rather than matchup specific stuff. But any help is greatly appreciated and I apologize if this embarrasses you guys as Tsubaki players :3

I was waiting for you!

I won't touch on combos so much, other than say, if you hit with a CH 236D, that's big damage. You can do 236D CH - 5CC - DP whiff - 214D - 2CC - IAD stuff. The stun even gives you enough time to gain 1 stock (Nice hits with the 236D/214D too). Also remember to use the DP whiff combos because the corner carry from from is extremely good. 22X ender leaves you with some time to breathe but you wanna make it harder for your opponent. Remember too : 214D and 236D (CH) can lead to very good damage even midscreen.

Tsubaki's aerials suck unfortunately, so try not to go air to air with Litchi. Then again, she shouldnt be going air to air vs anyone

At 0:16 the only way you could have combo'd from your CH 2C would be to use 2CC. You can't followup with a dash 5B from that very low height unfortunately.

In regards to pressure, you may want to mix in Kara throws e.g 5B - Kara throw. Also as Beaver said you may want to use unblockable setups more (like you could've done at 5:20) when you have the opponent pinned in the corner. It's basically free damage.

The throw setup at the end of the second match you did was nice, but you could've also ended the match if you did 6C - DD. Only saying that in case the player is good at teching but I think you used player specific stuff against this guy by the looks of it. If you want to go for another gimmick you could also do the 22D - 2B - 2C reset.

Also I think you should AA more. Miguel was air dashing to you alot and you couldnt AA because you either backdashed, or were in the air. Also, at neutral, Litchi's options beat your 5B.

Be careful with charging in the air as well. Just before you touch the ground even if you have your barrier up you will unable to block. The fortunate thing is that not alot of people are aware of this. Charging in the air also leaves you with options of of which can be beaten with an AA. I'd recommend you to tap 5D instead unless you hit your opponent with an air combo and even then I wouldnt use JD for so long.

In regards to the embarrasment...pffft

@Orion: I'm gonna leave the critiques to the better Tsu players. Pretty sure Airk, BatousaiJ and Kiba will do a much better job lol.

Your input is always welcome.

I'll come back to helping you Beaver when I'm done with my lesson unless somoene comes to take the words out of my mouth.

-During the beginning I also noticed you weren't going for any overhead pressure but towards the end you were mixing it up a bit better which is good. The 6C jump cancel pressure is one of my favorite tricks, but you can also jump cancel 5B and 5C for some other fancy stuff. Just a tip, you can also do 22D after 5C, which can mix it up and do an unblockable reset by holding it down afterwards if they're expecting a jump cancel off of 5C.

Tbh I think I can see why he wasn't using 6A alot, but also you mean 5C on hit? 5C can't be jump cancelled on block. If anything he can use the unblockable after anything, that's where the surprise comes in. He could even do 236C - unblockable. Remember Orion that any (excluding J.214X/22X) of Tsubaki's specials including her DPs and her J.236X can be special cancelled into her followup drives. It is particularly useful when you want to make her blocked DPs 'safer'. Some examples include:

J.236X - J.214D

236A - 214D - 22D

623A - J.236D

Edited October 4, 2011 by Kiba

[HajinShinobi]

Your input is always welcome.

I suppose I'll start trying in the future/present. I should probably get back to reading the frame data incase I'd try giving some in-depth input.

[Kiba]

Also here's a match of me playing in a local tournament:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/17176835

There's another one of my playing Tsubaki in there somewhere but It's just me getting raped by Sean so I didn't really get to show what my Tsubaki can do in it :o

When you grabbed Hak after the 623A in the first match you should've ended it in 236B - 214B - 22B rather than using stock for 236D because the combo was badly prorated due to the DP.

Be careful with J.214X, especially when you're using it to get on it Hakumen. It can be countered so easily with him.

What I said above to Orion regarding 236D CH and getting more damage would apply to you too.

Any particular reason why you end with Tsubaki's air combo rather than the 236B - 214B shizzle? I also think you could apply better combos, such as 5B - 5CC - DP whiff - 214D rather than 5BB - 5CC - 236D. Also instead of using 5BB - 5CC - 22D - 236D when you had Hak near the wall, you could done 5BB - 5CC - 22D - Run - 6CC - 623C - J.236A(w) - J.214D. It'll net you better damage and better oki options rather than air combos.

Apart from those I think your Tsubaki is really good.

I suppose I'll start trying in the future/present. I should probably get back to reading the frame data incase I'd try giving some in-depth input.

Looking forward to it!

[BeaverDeity]

When you grabbed Hak after the 623A in the first match you should've ended it in 236B - 214B - 22B rather than using stock for 236D because the combo was badly prorated due to the DP.

Be careful with J.214X, especially when you're using it to get on it Hakumen. It can be countered so easily with him.

What I said above to Orion regarding 236D CH and getting more damage would apply to you too.

Any particular reason why you end with Tsubaki's air combo rather than the 236B - 214B shizzle? I also think you could apply better combos, such as 5B - 5CC - DP whiff - 214D rather than 5BB - 5CC - 236D. Also instead of using 5BB - 5CC - 22D - 236D when you had Hak near the wall, you could done 5BB - 5CC - 22D - Run - 6CC - 623C - J.236A(w) - J.214D. It'll net you better damage and better oki options rather than air combos.

Apart from those I think your Tsubaki is really good.

Thanks for the feedback. :3

Yeah the reason I mostly don't go for the IAD stuff/236B-214B-22B enders is because I'm still a little shaky on the timing of those and I didn't want to risk dropping it in the middle of a tournament match when I could go with an aerial ender for some more damage. It was mostly just me being afraid to go out of the comfort zone and play without a safety net lolz (That's why I tend to stick to simple combos) plus I love being in the air with Tsubaki since she's like a valkyrie lol xD

Ah ok so 236D on CH can go into DP whiff combos? I didn't think that it would work midscreen for some reason. Thanks for the tip. Also yeah I realized the second I did the 236D after the 22D when he was near the combo I could have gone into 6CC instead, but at the time I wasn't going to risk not finishing a combo since I wasn't really looking at Hakumen's distance to the corner at the time.

And thanks! :3

[Airk]

Also here's a match of me playing in a local tournament:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/17176835

It's hard to tell a lot from this video, because you pretty much walked all over your opponent. All I could really pick up on was:

A little too much 236X at close range.

You are definitely opting for the air combo ender too often relative to using the 236B>214B>22C ender, which gives up a little (like 200 or something) damage for better position.

You also seem to have some 'patterns' in your offense - you go for several whatevers in a relatively short amount of time, be that overheads, throws, 6C jump cancels, or whatever. It doesn't seem to be causing you any problems here, but it might be seen as being slightly predictable.

[Airk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o4rUX9rrec&feature=feedu

So this is me playing Tsubaki in tournament. This is me half trolling NorCal cause its what I do best and half trying cause I'm still getting used to the character and I have no clue how to play against Litchi:v:

So aside from combos(Obvious thing I need to fix), what advice can you superiors give me to improve? I'm looking for changes that will help me grasp the character better as a whole rather than matchup specific stuff. But any help is greatly appreciated and I apologize if this embarrasses you guys as Tsubaki players :3

I thought it was pretty good. And I totally understand why you weren't using more 6A - namely, your opponent KEPT getting hit by the lows. Overall, I noticed the following:

Your hitconfirms were kinda wobbly - you got a bunch of hits that ended up not going anywhere. This will come with practice, obviously.

I would suggest a little bit more use of the 22D unblockable - particularly when in/near the corner. The end of the 2nd match where you had one charge remaining and dropped the combo (which resulted in a 22A being blocked) would've been the perfect time to instead use a 22D reset - you were near the corner, and your opponent was low on health and probably frantically blocking, so the odds of you getting poked out of it were slim. 22D unblockable also would've worked nicely on Litchi's wakeup there, since without her staff she has no DP option.

More throws, more air throws (though I did like your 2B > Air throw setup)

Generally, you don't want to be in the habit of jumping to meet people in the air - if you are airborne first, that's one thing, since your options all work from there (Air throw and pretty much ALL air normals and specials hit at a downward angle), but if they're going to be level or higher than you, the only thing you've really got is an air throw. (Which leads into pretty nice damage, really, but can get beat out by attacks with real range.) This is extra true with characters like Litchi who have lots of air range.

[Kiba]

Ah ok so 236D on CH can go into DP whiff combos? I didn't think that it would work midscreen for some reason.

And thanks! :3

236D on CH gives you more options:

-You can use 5C instead of 5B

-You can use 6A (W/o stock)

-You can charge for one whole stock then use 5C

-You could run into your opponent to get them closer to the corner and then combo them.

You can do the DP whiff regardless of a CH. CH just gives you the oppurtunity to inflict more damage.

[Airk]

Rare footage of how bad I am.

Save your mockery of the double-purple-throw teching failure please. -_-

My execution is so bad it pains me.

[Kiba]

I won't touch on IAD/DP whiff stuff because I know you've been having trouble with them.

I think you should extend your combos a lil more though. When you got 2CC(CH) in the corner instead of doing 236B - 214B - 2BB, you could do:

2CC - 22C - 5C - 2C - 236B - 214B - 22B.

I'd say mix in kara throws and maybe some charge cancels in your pressure. Not so much 5B because Tao can crawl under it and hit you out of it with 2A easily.

Also, I know you mentioned your execution is bad, but rather than saying how bad you are (lol) I'd like to see improvement from you because I know you can do it. I'd like to see you more aware of purple throws too and teching them.

Also I think 3CC was quite a bad option at the start of the round only because well if it was blocked then...yea...but by the looks of it the Tao always seemed to do something offensive at the start of the round. In any case, 22A would've been a better option.

[Airk]

I'm practicing the IAD stuff - I'm actually at the point (though I wasn't when this was recorded) that I feel comfortable attempting them in real matches, so expect to see those appearing soon.

3CC is indeed a terrible round starter, but sometimes, it works because it is terrible. That also wasn't my first round against that Tao, so it was an educated guess that she'd be flying around somewhere in that area.

I really DO need to work on working in 5B > Kara throw or 5BB > Kara throw stuff. I think that's probably my next major practice point.

[Kiba]

I'm practicing the IAD stuff - I'm actually at the point (though I wasn't when this was recorded) that I feel comfortable attempting them in real matches, so expect to see those appearing soon.

Nice one.

3CC is indeed a terrible round starter, but sometimes, it works because it is terrible. That also wasn't my first round against that Tao, so it was an educated guess that she'd be flying around somewhere in that area.

Yea tbh I did suspect that the reason you did it was due to player specific reasons. That's fair enough. I only suggested 22X because you can get guaranteed corner carry, and you can combo from it, lol.

I really DO need to work on working in 5B > Kara throw or 5BB > Kara throw stuff. I think that's probably my next major practice point.

You can also use 5B - 5D - Kara throw if the player likes to block.

[HajinShinobi]

Actually I have a general question about the kara throw? 5B - Kara throw, You're just doing 5B and THEN the kara throw? Not 5B > Kara (i.e 5B > 6C/5B)?

[Kiba]

Actually I have a general question about the kara throw? 5B - Kara throw, You're just doing 5B and THEN the kara throw?

Yup exactly.

[HajinShinobi]

Yup exactly.

Oh okay, just wanted to make sure I was doing it right lol.