[CS1-CSE] Tsubaki Self-Improvement and Critique Thread

[Airk]

Tsubaki's 2C should be able to beat Ragna's j.C iirc but again I haven't played against Ragna recently so I'm not too certain.

Yeah, it will - sorry, I meant "everything I have in the air", including air throws, most of the time. =/

If they tend to double jump I say try waiting a little before trying to hit them with 2C since they may also be trying for a cross-up but Tsubaki should auto-correct to whichever direction they're in when you use it.

No worries, I'll take what I can get. I think I just need to practice AAing with 2C a lot against varied styles of approaches so that I do it late enough to avoid shenanigans.

Also, good advice as usual, BJ. I'll do that. I was messing around earlier, and trying to do 5B > j.B > j.BB > stuff, and that was proving annoying, so I'll try just j.B > j.C stuff instead.

Now if only the internet were better, because nothing compounds old, slow reflexes letting extra input lag from the TV _AND_ from the internet. It makes me sad how much smoother it feels in training mode. =/ I just had a match where I swear I dropped 5BB>2BB>5CC>22C like 4 times. Fortunately, it guard crushed him and I won, but I am not proud. :P

[Rhiya]

Netplay is rage incarnate sometimes.

Trying to deal with some of the shit bad netplayers do in delay is like trying to punch Goku in the face while he's using instant transmission

[pktazn]

Yeah, it will - sorry, I meant "everything I have in the air", including air throws, most of the time. =/

No worries, I'll take what I can get. I think I just need to practice AAing with 2C a lot against varied styles of approaches so that I do it late enough to avoid shenanigans.

Also, good advice as usual, BJ. I'll do that. I was messing around earlier, and trying to do 5B > j.B > j.BB > stuff, and that was proving annoying, so I'll try just j.B > j.C stuff instead.

Now if only the internet were better, because nothing compounds old, slow reflexes letting extra input lag from the TV _AND_ from the internet. It makes me sad how much smoother it feels in training mode. =/ I just had a match where I swear I dropped 5BB>2BB>5CC>22C like 4 times. Fortunately, it guard crushed him and I won, but I am not proud. :P

I wouldn't be trying to beat Ragna in the air since apparently Tsubaki likes her solid ground. In all seriousness though her air game is ass. Everyone can pretty much beat her in the air so if they're jumpers, just stay down and try to punish them from there. The air throw is basically if they just like to jump and do nothing after they jump most of the time.

Netplay is very lol now due to many factors. What happened to my beautiful CT netcode

[LunarSelenia]

I wouldn't be trying to beat Ragna in the air since apparently Tsubaki likes her solid ground. In all seriousness though her air game is ass. Everyone can pretty much beat her in the air so if they're jumpers, just stay down and try to punish them from there. The air throw is basically if they just like to jump and do nothing after they jump most of the time.

^ Have to agree with you pk~. Been playing against Mu/Ragna/Tao and getting my butt kicked in the air because I accidentally press j.C >>;;;;;;;; Get punished for it.

Air Throw is risky, I usually use it whenever I EXPECT a jump out from the corner, catching them off guard, or when I know it will hit and I can afford the situation to be reset back to neutral in case they tech. Otherwise anything Tsubaki, even air throw is risky.

Been playing against Ragna and even his j.B done early can hit her out of air throws (or at least that's what happened against me during several matches >>;; ) ....fun stuff. It's mostly you have to get a good read to know when they plan to jump (even mindlessly jump) and catch them with a 2C. I've caught a couple of people who try to jump away from me after a tech and eat another 2.4k something damage. I've been trying to land 5B AA and purposely land it so I can confirm it into the air combo (still can't do it)

I'm notorious for air throws. But not as much as Solar~ >>;; Air Throw is an option, but I think as far as handling air game, Tsubaki really only has that and her 2C ._.;;; it's all I've been resorting to lately.

[Airk]

That seems in line with my experience - a lot of my wins come from calling out people who like to jump out of the corner by just air throwing them when they try. It can catch a lot of stuff, but attacks with a lot of reach tend to hit you out.

I think I need to master positioning myself for 2C. That and trying to keep the stick at 2 instead of 1, lest a crossup turn it into 3C. Not that 3C "anti-air" is entirely bad since it's kinda low to the ground, but if you mistime it, it sucks. =/

[Star-Demon]

Hi Tsubakis!

I'm trying to learn but I keep doing stupid things with Tsubaki. Any tips on things I shouldn't do with Tsubaki?

I definitely figured out that I should stop running *into* Curse...

Here's some playing I did last night:

Not sure what to do off 2C or 3C followup, I'll have to look it up.

[Iza]

@Star

Im not the most amazing player but

follow up 2CC - 236B 214B 22B/C

If you want to combo from a 3CC you need to RC it into 2CC then IAD or just use 236X series

You seem to be to far for the 236A series after 5CC, just use 22C for the knock down if there too far

you might want try to charge cancel for better block string

Im not too sure of the matchup you had, im sure someone else can help you on that

Also you should be placing this in the self improvement and critque thread instead next time

[Airk]

This should probably be in the "Self-Improvement and Critique Thread" thread, but here's what I'm seeing off the top of my head:

#0: Relax. You play kinda nervous.

#1: Air charging at neutral is very dangerous, and you probably want to avoid it. For the duration of CS2, the way you get charge at neutral is the occasional quick tap of 5D. Once EX comes around, the way you get charge at neutral is you don't, you wait for a knockdown.

#2: You really need to be able to make something of a 214D hit. Practice 214D {> 5B} > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B for starters, then work on adding an instant air dash combo part in after the 2CC.

#3: Hitconfirms? More than once I saw you do something like 5B > 2BB and then...stop, even though you were hitting your opponent. You should've continued into SOMETHING in those instances. Just finishing these combos would be helpful.

#4: Similar to 2 and 3, you need to be able to do something after a 22X counterhit. Again, the easy suggestion is 5B > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B. IAD stuff can come later.

#5: Charge management - you need to be constantly aware of how much charge you have, so that you can use it. If you're doing 5BB > 2BB > 5CC > 236A > 214A > 22A while you have a charge (Without a reason), you're wasting damage and corner carry, since you could be doing 5BB > 5CC > 22C > 236D > 5B > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B instead. This combo takes a little bit of practice, and regrettably doesn't work on a couple of characters (Makoto is the one that leaps to mind) but it's still FAIRLY easy and produces much better damage and carry than the basic zero charge stuff. There are times when you might opt to do just the basic stuff (probably when you're pretty-close-to but not quite in the corner, and want to save your charge so you have enough for a really nasty 2-charge corner combo.) but overall, you're better off spending the charge than not.

#6: I assume the random 6Cs were mis-inputs?

#7: Do -something- after you land a throw. Either 6CC > Air stuff in the corner, or 236D > 5B > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B if you have charge elsewhere.

[Quaxor]

@Star-Demon

I noticed you said you were learning Tsubaki and are trying to get better. I started playing as her a short time ago so I'm by no means an expert or anything close to that.

If you want to play some matches on PSN at some point, add me as a friend on there.

I also main Arakune so if you want to improve your matches against him, I can help with that too.

[Star-Demon]

@Star-Demon

I noticed you said you were learning Tsubaki and are trying to get better. I started playing as her a short time ago so I'm by no means an expert or anything close to that.

If you want to play some matches on PSN at some point, add me as a friend on there.

I also main Arakune so if you want to improve your matches against him, I can help with that too.

Cool - I was about to hop on. I'll add you.

[cj_iwakura]

Okay gents, have at me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0xEuuXVwjg

I have a bad habit of falling back on the BNB, but I think I'm improving.

(Any thoughts on looping it by using 236D? It seems pretty dang effective.)

[BatousaiJ]

Okay gents, have at me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0xEuuXVwjg

I have a bad habit of falling back on the BNB, but I think I'm improving.

(Any thoughts on looping it by using 236D? It seems pretty dang effective.)

Too much 236x.

236C isn't safe on block from anywhere outside of max distance so try to use it in moderation and try to play the neutral game with dashing 5B and etc.

Check out the CS 2 combo thread and learn some more BnB that will let you maximize your damage from various openings.

Use more 2C anti-airs since it's one of the best ones in the game and just block more. I noticed you getting hit by a lot of thins where he drops the combo and you're not hold back for some reason.

Hope that was of some help and keep at it.

[Airk]

Okay gents, have at me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0xEuuXVwjg

I have a bad habit of falling back on the BNB, but I think I'm improving.

(Any thoughts on looping it by using 236D? It seems pretty dang effective.)

My thoughts:

Don't end a blockstring with 236A. It's too hard to space well.

As BJ says, less 236C - you should really only use this at long range.

Air charge only with caution. Overall I don't really recommend it in CS2.

Careful with that 236D air hit > 6C stuff - that's not actually a legit combo, and you should work on the 236D air hit > dash 5B > 2CC > stuff link instead.

"looping" the BNB with 236D doesn't entirely work - if you do 5BB > 2BB > 5CC > 236D > 5BB > 2BB > 5CC your combo drops if you try to do any sort of ender. You can do 5BB > 2BB > 5CC > 236D > 5BB > 5CC > 22B though. I'd only actually recommend doing this if you have your back to the corner, so you switch positions and put THEM in the corner. Or, of course, if the extra damage will get you a kill. Otherwise, an easy 1 charge combo with better results is 5BB > 5CC > 22C > 236D > Dash 5B > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B, which does at least as much damage and has incredible corner carry.

[Kiba]

Okay gents, have at me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0xEuuXVwjg

I have a bad habit of falling back on the BNB, but I think I'm improving.

(Any thoughts on looping it by using 236D? It seems pretty dang effective.)

Following on from what Airk and Bat said:

There isn't an real pressure or mixup to your blockstrings at all since you're following the same pattern (i.e 5BB - 2BB - 5CC). You can mix it up by using 6A, 6B, jump cancel pressure etc.

Also, don't use j.D so much at that close range. It limits your options after use and all of them can be beat with a simple AA. If you do happen to be close when you do use it, air dash to get away.

[MikelAL93]

Hello my Tsubaki brethren!

Here it is, the last replay I have ever recorded for the PS3 version of BBCS. I would love to see how my Tsubaki would be rated, as I have already gotten used to her, and her moveset + basic combos. :D

Apologies for the shaky camera, as I had to record it from my cell phone. I sadly don't have a Dazzle. XD

Comments, and suggestions on how to improve my Tsubaki playstyle are appreciated.

[Kiba]

You're using j.D when you're too close to Noel and she could easily attack you.

Everything about the match is pretty, messy and random tbh. It was so fast paced and stuff that it was like watching Marvel vs Capcom 3. Moves are just all over the place and both of you are getting hit a lot by random attacks. The Noel is just mashing drives.

In the first round there was alot of unecessary use of 623C and 214X. If Noel is mashing drives on her wakeup, 6A/6C will both beat them clean. Of course, that is harder to do in neutral. It looks like you still need to get a grasp of how and when to use Tsubaki's attacks. In neutral, you can get in with 236C/D and use the fast mobility she possesses to run in and out if necessary. 5B is also a very good poke (not AS good in EX, but still viable). When you did manage to get 236C/D hits in, you didn't capitalise of them, even with a bnb of 5BB > 5CC > 22C.

I'm taking into consideration that this is CS2, but note that if it were EX, the information I'd give would vary slightly.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Kiba

[Daedron]

you can get in with 236C/D

Just to add to this, while these are really good moves for getting in in CS2. using them 29 times (yes, I counted, though I counted all versions) is a bit too much, and honestly a better player will be able to call you out for doing it.

Also note that getting in with 236x series in CS EX is a lot harder, because the moves are minus on block even at max range.

[MikelAL93]

Thanks for the advice guys! It's greatly appreciated.

Also @Kiba: Yes, that was CS2. I am going to get Extend with Final Fantasy XIII-2 next week.

[Her_Omen]

What the hell...do I do against Ragna?

I've run into Ragna Six Times in a row on ranked, and each time I had trouble: 1) getting moves in, and 2) keeping myself safe. Does Tsubaki have anything to match up with him better? Or is it just going to be one of those matchups that are just garbage?

[HajinShinobi]

What the hell...do I do against Ragna?

I've run into Ragna Six Times in a row on ranked, and each time I had trouble: 1) getting moves in, and 2) keeping myself safe. Does Tsubaki have anything to match up with him better? Or is it just going to be one of those matchups that are just garbage?

CSII or Extend?

[pktazn]

I'd assume Extend. I can't say anything from personal experience too much but you definitely have to be more careful and tricky due to how good/stupid he is in Extend. It's one of her worst match-ups.

One of the others could probably give better advice and check out the match-up thread and the CS2 match-up thread in archives for some ideas. I believe there are some tips in there and it's probably better suited in that thread.

EDIT: I'll probably end up moving subsequent posts to the match-up thread most likely if it's discussed here for organizational purposes and it'll help out others as well.

I'm not strict about where it's discussed though. Of course, I'll tell you guys if I move it as usual. :D

Edited February 15, 2012 by pktazn

[MikelAL93]

I'm fine with moving subsequent posts to the character's respective Tsubaki vs. *Insert character here* match-up topics, they will help make things easier.

Good organization makes things easier to find.

[Her_Omen]

Ah, sorry, right after I posted I was like: I should be looking at the match up thread shouldn't I?

Then I smacked my head off the desk, and neglected to edit myself face-desking over my stupid.

[Iza]

hmmm guess i take one of my set for a run....

Cmd Nippon (LAM) vs RedNova (TSU)

so i don't have Extend yet, this is only my third time playing and im running with alot of CS2 instinct.

for anyone who can help in giving me advice on what I should do and not do are appreciated I will try and apply it next time

(please don't tell me to stop using DP whiff)

[Kiba]

hmmm guess i take one of my set for a run....

Cmd Nippon (LAM) vs RedNova (TSU)

so i don't have Extend yet, this is only my third time playing and im running with alot of CS2 instinct.

for anyone who can help in giving me advice on what I should do and not do are appreciated I will try and apply it next time

(please don't tell me to stop using DP whiff)

Eh, rather than using the DP whiff combos w/o stock, why not use the standard combos to place yourself in a better offensive position? You definately don't want to be caught in the air against Lambda.

Dat random astral. Dat number of 3Cs. You had your good moments with 3C, like when you hit lambda out of the spike chaser, but I wouldn't recommend using it THAT much.

Or at all really unless you're using Bat's tech trick or punishing something

Your blockstrings are pretty patterned too. There is really no mixup is what you're doing and Commander Nippon is not having a hard time blocking it lol. It was just 5BB > 5C > CC, and he eventually started poking you out of further pressure. Use 2B and 6A to provide yourself with some mixup.