MikelAL93 Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 You used 623C at a bad time, preforming 214B/C or 236B/C would've extended the combo you were doing that time. Timing your DP's wrong can be dangerous and will give your opponent and advantage, such as Lambda with her 5C (IMO, it's annoying). Don't execute C again after 2C once an opponent executes an air recovery, it will lead to the combo ending unnaturally. You also shouldn't preform 6C© while the opponent is preparing their attack, such as Lambda's 632146D distortion. You should also be aware that one way to cheat yourself out of Lambda's 5C is by attacking her using a trick maneuver, such as jumping over her and attacking with j.5C©, or attacking her from behind to trick her. Preforming attacks such as Tsubaki's 3C during Lambda's 5C is dangerous, as the bullets from it do not affect Lambda when countered. I am trying to help you as much as I can, and I hope what I said in mind helps.
Airk Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 The suggestions I see presenting themselves are: You might want to do more actual mixup; Your pressure seems pretty decent, but you're just throwing out a bunch of mid attacks, and hoping your opponent gets frustrated and pushes a button. (The only overhead I saw was actually AFTER you had landed a hit, and the only lows are your long range 3Cs) You rely pretty heavily on IAD to get in. Not that it's not working, but you might want to be aware of the habit. You are definitely autopiloting 3C > 6C even when the 3C doesn't land as a CH. Probably want to work on that confirm, otherwise, 3C > 3CC > rapid if you've got it is better. Try harder to apply pressure after blocking Lambda's 236C - it's -6, so while you won't really get a punish, you should at least be able to take the offensive, rather than get reset to neutral. Dash 5A/2A/5B are probably your best bets, though 22A will catch her jumping out if she tries that, but probably won't catch backdashes.
shad0whiei Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 Thanks for the "defense" lessons Bat. Next time ill stick around longer. Was alot of fun ^^ and by defense lessons I really mean being destroyed but its all good XD. I have alot to work on when being pressured that's for sure. Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Lumiere Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Although I haven't joined any Netplay matches with Dustloop users yet, I guess it's a good idea to share my current struggles as a beginner Tsubaki player; based on matches I've done all day with friends on near level of my play. -Batousai's 5A > 5CC > 214214D > 623D > j.236D > j.214D > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2C > j.CC > j.236A > j.214C helped a bit in understanding how to do a basic combo with a pad, but I'm still having trouble with the 214214 movement. This applies to 236236 movement when I try to finish a combo with it. I think I nearly broke the pad when I was trying to do these movements...>.> -Accidental 236236C's due to trying for 236C's isn't helping at all. -Learned today that j214C is really fun to use to push away foes and then get a bit of charge in. -22C and its variations are easy to do in a pad, but I should remind myself not to mash "D" when trying to do 22D. -I know 214C and its variations have uses of their own...but I haven't figured out what yet. --Also, does 214C have invincibility frames?... -Using 236C and its variations for "approaches" gets me punished a lot...I'm assuming they are mainly for use in combos...? -It's hard to know when to whiff, but I'm still in training wheels, so the more I practice the more I'll learn. I'll post more notes as I play.
BatousaiJ Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 I'll answer some of your questions for you lumiere. The 214214 motion will come to you when you do it enough times and your thumb gets used to the input. While j.214C is a great tool to land is a different place after air charging or to hit someone when they're rushing towards you when you're in the air, it's unsafe and block and should not be used too often on opponents who are quick to punish it after block or can time it to anti air it. No need to mash 22C/D, just tap it in as the window for the move's input in the combo series is rather lenient. 214C has invincibility frame a bunch of frames after start up till the end more or less but remember that it is unsafe on block and it can be hit out of with ease with a feet attribute move. 236C is no longer good to use as an approach unless you're prepared to cancel it with a 22D/214D or RC after block. If you're too close when you use the move, they'll have a ton of time to punish you, if you do it at max range, they'll be able to jab you first. I throw it out there sometimes by itself when I'm calling out them doing something far away or not blocking but other wise, try to have a backup plan before you use it outside of combos.
Shruikon Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 @Lumiere I too was having troubles with double quarter circles and then I tried doing them by switching from d-pad to analog stick just for that motion and now I get it 90% of the time. Perhaps the same will work for you?
Lumiere Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 @Batousai Thanks for all the info and tips! If I get anymore questions I'll be sure to post them here. @Shruikon That's exactly what I did at near the end of my Blazblue session with my friends. I accidentally jump around trying to do the motions, but I can pull it off easier than pad. But those jumps cost me a good amount of health....Or even the lead of a match. Funnily, all of my friends use the analog stick to play and they have no trouble with it...But I can't simply because my hands don't like the positioning of the analog stick on a PS3 pad...
pktazn Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 The best way that I was personally able to get the motion down is simply just doing the move by itself. I did it to see how my pad read the motion then I added it into the combo. Believe me when I say you have a lot more time to input moves than you think, so don't feel as if you have to mash it out (or any other move for that matter) to get it to work. That's just my two cents though and if you found something that works for you who, am I to change that~
Shruikon Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 @Batousai Thanks for all the info and tips! If I get anymore questions I'll be sure to post them here. @Shruikon That's exactly what I did at near the end of my Blazblue session with my friends. I accidentally jump around trying to do the motions, but I can pull it off easier than pad. But those jumps cost me a good amount of health....Or even the lead of a match. Funnily, all of my friends use the analog stick to play and they have no trouble with it...But I can't simply because my hands don't like the positioning of the analog stick on a PS3 pad... Same, which is why I usually use the D-Pad. Still don't know why analog works better for 214214 but oh well. If you get a jump, just use an 'oh I totally meant to TK it' option select~
Lumiere Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Alright, question time... If an opponent's launching projectiles at you... I.e Lambda's D or Jin's Icicles... what's a good move to use for approach/ pressure...?
MikelAL93 Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Alright, question time... If an opponent's launching projectiles at you... I.e Lambda's D or Jin's Icicles... what's a good move to use for approach/ pressure...? From what I can remember, 236B has projectile-invincibility on startup; 22B has projectile guard point, meaning that you can guard while executing 22B to prevent yourself from getting hit by a projectile; and 623x (all versions), is invincible against projectiles.
Kiba Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) 236B has no invincbility at all, and 22B doesn't have a projectile guard point, but it pierces them instead. If they're throwing projectiles at you, just jump above them to get closer to your opponent. Lambda can you 6D too though so ocassionally you might want to try rushing in rather than trying to jump in. This is good for approaching because you can immediately initiate you pressure if you can catch them during the last recovery frames of their attack. The only good move that Tsubaki has to counter projectiles is 214D, but be careful because it's unsafe on block. It's not good for pressure but provides a good means of approach whilst evading projectiles. You can use 214A/B too, but 214D provides the most invincibility. 214C is extremely timing specific, so I wouldn't recommend it at all. Edited February 20, 2012 by Kiba
Errol Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Tsubaki vs Lambda was a bad matchup in cs2, has to be even worse now. I think it's extremely hard to get against her, I don't really know a good way to do it. It seems kinda 50/50 - go high and dodge a 5d, or stay low and dodge a 6d.. have to read the opponent well I think.
shad0whiei Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Tsubaki vs Lambda was a bad matchup in cs2, has to be even worse now. I think it's extremely hard to get against her, I don't really know a good way to do it. It seems kinda 50/50 - go high and dodge a 5d, or stay low and dodge a 6d.. have to read the opponent well I think. I miss good ol b series projectile inv. But those days are gone. I play against a lambda pretty often. He's no where near the best but he's not the worst I suppose. Only real thing to do is try to fake them out then its open season. Once close there's not many options lambda has for over heads. I believe a tk crescent and that split kick is it so if you watch out for those you can pretty much block low - retaliate. Don't quote me on this. I could be wrong lol Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Airk Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Yeah, all that projectile invulnerable stuff MikelAL93 mentioned is CS1 talk; None of that applies anymore. Lambda is sortof a guessing game, but really, it's not THAT bad; Or rather, getting in isn't that bad. It's keeping momentum and not letting her turn the tables that's rough. When approaching Lambda, you need to WATCH her. If you can react to her stuff, it gets a lot easier. It's OKAY if you have to stop and block a 5D or a 6D (while airborne) - it doesn't really get her anything, other than keeping you out, so don't get too risky and get CH. Play patient, mix up your approaches, and wait for them to guess wrong about your approach vector. It's actually a sortof DEFENSIVE game for Tsubaki, because while you do need to approach, it's more important to keep her from hitting you and setting you up with Sickle Storm Oki > Mixup > Hurting than it is for you to get in in a hurry. Patience is key.
Lumiere Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Thank you all for all the info and tips...and yeah, patience is really golden especially when playing a Tsubaki and having your ass handed by Jins, Noels, and Hazamas.
MikelAL93 Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Yeah, all that projectile invulnerable stuff MikelAL93 mentioned is CS1 talk; None of that applies anymore. Yeah, I wholeheartedly apologize for that. lol I really need to get ahead of the times and not think CS1 all over again when we are in Extend. Sorry guys. Edited February 21, 2012 by MikelAL93
LunarSelenia Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Hahaha time for some fail: [2/9] Tokyoboi808 [TG] vs. LunarSelenia [TS] Honestly I HATE netplay and I don't like being on there but I wanted some matches in despite the lag. I'll take any critique though, I'm just glad I have one vid instead of nothing. It's not my best, but I'd rather put up a vid and get something going from there than like I said, having nothing here. I am aware of: -too much 236x (but most of it was my mindset being LOL Netplay or misinputs, esp. if there are any A vers. in the video) -I can't do 623C > j.236A(w) > j.214D anymore when I'm on the left side. I don't want to do it too much w/ the setup I got since I think I have lag on it. So that's why I end up with....nothing in the corner sometimes >>;; I would at least try XD
Kiba Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 In the first match: When you got the 236D CH, you could have used a more optimal combo, which would have been: 236D CH > 6CC > 236C > 214A > Dash 5C > 2C > 236C > 214C > 22C [2713 Damage, 28 meter gain] OR 236D > Dash 5CC > j.BB > j.C > 5C > j.BB > j.C > 5C > 2C > 236C > 22B [2718 Damage, 31 meter gain] which is a Tager specific combo. You could have also optimised your 3CC FC with an RC > 22D > 6CC > stuff. It was quite risky to do too. If Tager is trying to drag you in with 6A, you can use 3C then to score a CH. I also think you're taking a risk by pressuring Tager as we know that Tsubaki has alot of holes in her mixup and pressure. For example, he threw you out of 6A. If you would like safer blockstrings, you can either use 5B > 5C > 2C and jump away, or 5B > unblock from max range. Other than that, he can 360 you out of your options if the player is alert. Try not to use 236C/D at all on Tager, it's far too risky. 236C can be punished regardless of distance with a 360, and 236D can be punish with a 360 even if you attempt to followup with 214D. I'm not completely certian of this, but it's something to be aware of. I also know it's guaranteed if he IBs. There was also a whiffed 2D he used which you could've punished with a 5BB > 5CC Bnb. You could also optimise your unblockable combos by using: 22D > 5D > 3CC > Rapid > 6CC > 623C > j.236(A) > j.214D > dash 5C > 2CC > 22C > 5C > 2C > 236C > 214C > 22B [4600, 34 meter gain, 1.25 charge back] It was unlucky that you got 720d at the end, I'm assuming you thought he was going to jump? Nice attempt at reading him though. Remember you to use your mobility (Back dashing if he's getting too close, running underneath if he high jumps so you can get more stock). Don't backdash too much though as he can put you in the corner fairly quickly.
LunarSelenia Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Ah thanks Kiba for some optimal combos stuff. Netplay in general just puts me on edge even with the basic of combos @__@;; I'll be sure to learn these and apply them to my offline game. Question though: What do when magnetized? I know the general idea is to stay away and play patient but a lot of the times I will end up getting caught and it's even harder to play the "Get Away from Me" game. The Mobility issue addressed above might help but as soon as I'm magnetized I'm usually scared of what to do and then it's just GGs. That short blockstring thing I have to get used to with Tager, but thanks for some examples and some things to tryout next time.
Kiba Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Question though: What do when magnetized? I know the general idea is to stay away and play patient but a lot of the times I will end up getting caught and it's even harder to play the "Get Away from Me" game. The Mobility issue addressed above might help but as soon as I'm magnetized I'm usually scared of what to do and then it's just GGs. Usually when I'm magnetized I try to stay as far from Tager as possible, maybe regularly using 5B jump cancels to show that I'm not fully retreatist. It's too risky to go for 5B - unblockables because 360/720s can pull you in really easily if you misjudge the spacing. Try not to jump either because AC will pull you straight in, though you can hit him out of it if you're lucky. Sometimes I walk back too, but I try to stay slightly out of 2D range, so that if he does use it, I can punish him. If he's trying to pull you in with 4D/5D, I just continue to backdash, or air back dash. Also, note that if you're magged and he has spark bolt ready, it can catch your BD, so be careful. Remember if he tries to drag you in with 6A, 3C FC. No probz, I just hope it helps.
Daedron Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Quick session with Shruikon today, I recorded the matches I had with him and he's looking for advice. Would be nifty if people could watch it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNLOW-U4tYI No, I don't need any advice myself, thank you. :V Edited March 2, 2012 by Daedron
Kiba Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) 1st Match: I would not have recommended using 2CC on block. Daedron could have simply crouched the 2nd hit to make it whiff and then punish. When you followed up with the 22C CH, you could have used dash 5C > 2CC for better corner carry and it would have also placed you in a positional advantage to apply further pressure. Ending with air combos with no stock limits your options as you are falling down. At 1:51, you hit confirmed with 2B > 5CC, but you didn't make the most out of the corner combo. You could have done 2B > 5CC > 22C > 6C > 236C > 214C > 22B, which again would have placed you in a better positional advantage because 22A has more recovery than 22B, and it deals more damage. Your normals are whiffing because Daedron is either pushing you out with barrier or/and you're not dashing in between your pressure. It's why you couldn't followup 6A with a 5C hitconfirm when you ended the pressure with 2BB. You can either reset the pressure with a charge cancel or 2B and then dash in for more, or use 6C to get in closer to your opponent. Rather than using air combos from a 2CC AA, either go for an IAD combo, or if they're too high, go for the special ender, as again it puts you in a better positional advantage. You want to make the most out of your pressure situations. I think you are taking a risk by using 3C like that too. You should try to AA Daedron too when you can, like after he jump cancelled a 6CC. 2nd Match: Remember to avoid leaving your gatlings hanging. You used a 5CC on block with no 22C ender or a charge cancelled, and Daedron could have punished that. You're still using 3C quite wildly too. The above also applies here too. 3rd Match: You could have punished Daedron when he used a j.214D when you blocked it, as that's unsafe. After you use 236D, a stockless good combo followup would be 5BB > 5CC > 214A > 22B. At 9:32: When Daedron used the j.236D > j.214D followup on you, you could have AA that to prevent yourself that being in that situation. 4th Match: You're getting hit with alot of unecessary lows. I think you should continue to block low and familiarise yourself with the speed of Tsubaki's 6A. Once you get used to it, you get much better at reacting to it. If you're really unsure about how Daedron is going to approach you with pressure, push him out with the barrier. Once there is an opening (after a charge cancel or a 6B for instance), you can air backdash in an attempt to reset the momentum. When you hit Daedron with a CH 236D, you could've optimised it a little more by using 236D CH > 6CC > 236C > 214A > Dash 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B (or 6CC > 236B >214B > 22B) 5th Match: Wait a minute, Daedron can play Tager? Since when? More to the point, when you used the unblockable, it would have been better to do it from a futher range as Daedron could have 360'd you out of it. In addition, when playing against Tager, you first mission is to retreat and acquire stock. Your options without stock are severely limited in a way which prevents you from effectively contending against Tager. You should stop ending your blockstrings with 2BB against Tager, as a more scarier option for him would be to 360 you. Either end your blockstrings with a jump cancelled 5B, a max poke from far, a jump cancelled 2C, or 22X from max range. Anything else your doing will most likely lose a 360, and this is why I urge Tsubaki players to avoid using blockstrings on him. When Daedron used 6A, you could have used 3C to score a FC, rather than a dash in 2B, as the reward is far greater. 6th Match: Remember you need to find a safer way to end your blockstrings. Use charge cancels or mix in some jump cancellable normals when you can. The way you end your pressure (2BB, 5CC) can be punished quite easily. You scored a 3C FC and you didnt follow it up. You also dropped a 2CC air hit confirm and didn't followup. What happened? The 2CC blockstring whiff I spoke of earlier was whiffed and Tao was able to punish you. 7th Match: The information above applies. After the unblockable you held 5D for too long and couldn't followup with the 6CC 8th match: You're ending your normals too unsafely, and you're giving Daedron the opportuinity to outpoke you out of your stuff. The 3CC > RC was also done a little late so thats why you got punsihed for the whiffed 2C. Overall I think: You should try to become more familiar with various blockstrings, and familiarise yourself with the range of them so you don't whiff so muchAvoid using 3CC alot. You whiffed a lot which could be punished. There were some you even used on block which weren't punished.Avoid ending blockstrings unsafely. Use charge cancels or jump cancellable normals where necessary. Vary your blockstrings. Mix in some 2As, and kara throws to give your pressure more mixup. A more detailed explanation can be viewed in the offense part of the wikiLearn about various character matchups. Take a look in the MU threads. There's alot of juicy information there. Hope this helps. Edited March 2, 2012 by Kiba
BatousaiJ Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 No, I don't need any advice myself, thank you. :V Everyone needs advice from time to time to get a different perspective on things. On that note, don't eat yellow snow.
Daedron Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Wait a minute, Daedron can play Tager? Since when? "Playing" isn't really the right word I think. I know his combos for the most part and I know some 720 setups but that's about it. I can also do backdash -360 or 720 quite easily (though not on pad...like in the video where I kept failing lol) I suck at neutral with him cause yeah, I dunno how to punish stuff yet or even how to approach without getting hit myself. :V On that note, don't eat yellow snow. Thank you for your advice, I've become a better player in real life and I can't thank you enough for it.
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