[CS1] Tsubaki Yayoi - General Discussion 2.0

[pktazn]

I felt it was firmly implied in the nature of changes being suggested.

The trouble is two fold: #1: Her drive is only barely on par with other characters drives when you have charge and #2: Even if it were better, you still can't -get- any charge. Both need to be fixed. Fixing one without the other gets you only minimal gains as you describe.

Again, I apologize if that's what you thought I was getting at but it's not even if you felt like it was greatly implied. I'm the kind of person who really tries to not imply things since I like being upfront. I'm a bit inarticulate though so sometimes I don't know how to explain things as well as I could have and I'm trying to work on that especially since I'm on a forum, so I apologize for that as well. Basically, I just want a little bit more mix-up in her game and you stated what I was getting at about her problems better than I did in what I quoted above. TBH after playing her last night with some friends her charge system now just feels like an unfinished idea. It's like they knew what they were going for but then for whatever reason just kinda stopped focusing on it.

It doesn't have to be exactly like action charge but something like it would be an easier way to gain charges if that's all they're aiming for. Your idea was good too (speaking honestly here, I should have said it earlier) but personally, I don't feel that the player needs to be punished for faster charging.

I think anyone comparing guilty mixup to bb mixup would be disappointed if you preferred the former lol. Honestly, I'm pretty sure most people are at least wary of letting Tsubaki get 2+ charges if they know a bit about her already. At the moment it is simply to easy to prevent charging and her combos can be very volatile range-wise. I don't think she needs some crazy tweaks to her charge system. Even if it just happened a decent bit faster it'd be fine.

Yea, I know BB mixup will never be like GG mixup and that's fine with me. I'm really just spoiled haha but I do know that BB is BB and GG is GG so I shouldn't compare the two. I'll have to start putting that into practice. I just feel that the other characters (in terms of BB) have a lot more that they can do and actually succeed in than Tsubaki if done correctly.

I'll put this out here to make my stance clear: I want a wee bit more for her mix-up options (as much mix-up as it can be in BB at least) as in some tweaks to make them more viable in more situations and I definitely agree that faster charging or some form of getting charges (e.g. Action Charge) would definitely help... And maybe some invul frames thrown with some of her C or D moves as well

[DieMyDarling]

Personally, I think a good start for her to be 'fixed', in addition to making Install a bit better, is to buff her 236x move. I think if they gave it better projectile invincibility it would make getting in on certain characters actually possible. Not Tager sledge-style, but it should stuff normal ice sword/ourobouros/Lambda C/D spam. That would at least justify dying miserably on block without 50% heat in your pocket.

Edit: Although I think her DDs kind of suck, so might as well use the heat on that.

[Airk]

Fair enough! Thanks pktazn! I think we're mostly on the same page, and anyway, this discussion is just for fun because it's not like Arc Systems is diligently monitoring this forum trying to figure out what to do.

Oh, and thanks for the video on Action Charge. It seems like an interesting mechanic, but it also seems like it still breaks up the rhythm of your offense - is it really that big a difference from doing a combo that lands the enemy at a safe distance and then charging manually? It doesn't seem like it.

Personally, I think a good start for her to be 'fixed', in addition to making Install a bit better, is to buff her 236x move. I think if they gave it better projectile invincibility it would make getting in on certain characters actually possible. Not Tager sledge-style, but it should stuff normal ice sword/ourobouros/Lambda C/D spam. That would at least justify dying miserably on block without 50% heat in your pocket.

Maybe going through projectiles would be a good use for 214? It's slower than 236, and otherwise lacks a point. Seeing some actual frame advantage on say, 236A would be nice though.

Edit: Although I think her DDs kind of suck, so might as well use the heat on that.

Both definitely seem to be on the weak side. Her "mugen" should also give her the darn damage bonus that everyone else's 'special mode' gives them, and if they're only going to give her two different ones, it would be nice to see some decent invulnerability on the D button Confutatis.

[Dullyanna]

Personally, all I really want is to do a bit more damage across the board, and to turn 6B into an okay poke (Less range on the first hit + faster startup and I'd take it). Better DDs (Range, damage, or utility-wise) would also be nice.

[pktazn]

Fair enough! Thanks pktazn! I think we're mostly on the same page, and anyway, this discussion is just for fun because it's not like Arc Systems is diligently monitoring this forum trying to figure out what to do.

Oh, and thanks for the video on Action Charge. It seems like an interesting mechanic, but it also seems like it still breaks up the rhythm of your offense - is it really that big a difference from doing a combo that lands the enemy at a safe distance and then charging manually? It doesn't seem like it.

Haha you're welcome and I like these kinds of discussion too. :3

I think any character that has to charge will have to take a break from offense to be able to charge but it would work really well with Tsubaki if they're trying to make her a charging/rush-down character.

The way I see it she can keep up momentum with action charge since she gets a set amount each time she finishes while the opponent is waking up and then be able to continue her rushdown and still be able to use her drive effectively since it would be helping her charge. Of course, this is very, very dependent on how much of the set charge ArcSys would allow. Again, even if we don't get something like that, just tweaking existing moves and faster charge would greatly help.

Random but if we got something like Holy Order Tsubaki her acronym would be H.O.T. My friends and I realized that acronym last night on skype lmao.

[TD]

Give her charge guage "Soul Eater" properties.

[Shaffler]

Wait...the suddenly stroke an idea on me. What if her charged attacks actually took out some of the opponent's Heat? Course, she isn't going to be gaining any of that Heat herself, but instead gets to do some Order Sol-ish charge storing.

[STenSatsu]

I don't think it is a good idea to get too fancy with it tbh.

[TD]

lt -does- steal light...

l mean... would be nice.

[Taylor]

Oh, and thanks for the video on Action Charge. It seems like an interesting mechanic, but it also seems like it still breaks up the rhythm of your offense - is it really that big a difference from doing a combo that lands the enemy at a safe distance and then charging manually? It doesn't seem like it.

Well, as far as getting meter is concerned it doesn't, but it's faster and you don't need to invite yourself to be zoned by putting your opponent full-screen. Action Charge is awesome because it has a FRC point (frames 7-12 or so), allowing you to spend 25% meter to cut the move short, still gain the charge, and often end with a silly frame advantage. And the potential risk of FRC means even if you don’t do it the opponent will think twice about punishing it. Of course, BlazBlue doesn’t have FRCs so this is kind of moot.

[Airk]

Well, as far as getting meter is concerned it doesn't, but it's faster and you don't need to invite yourself to be zoned by putting your opponent full-screen. Action Charge is awesome because it has a FRC point (frames 7-12 or so), allowing you to spend 25% meter to cut the move short, still gain the charge, and often end with a silly frame advantage. And the potential risk of FRC means even if you don’t do it the opponent will think twice about punishing it. Of course, BlazBlue doesn’t have FRCs so this is kind of moot.

So... in a nutshell, it's an ability that wouldn't be much good even if it was brought over, due to system differences? Sounds like all the more reason to come up with something fresh.

[Siefer]

I personally think Tsubaki's biggest problem is the fact that she has extremely limited ways of getting in, and has a hard time scaring people once she's in. This can be remedied by:

-Allowing her specials to be more practical outside of combos for getting in safely, without burning charge.

-Giving her a command throw.

I think giving her those two additional options would benefit her more than any other two options, and can boost her up fairly well in terms of competitiveness.

[PandaKingEX]

So is anyone interested in forming a Tsubaki team for the 3x same character xbl tourny? I want to rep Tsubaki so much, because I hate how negative everyone is about her.

[Slayer Alucard]

Wat? There's a 3v3 happening?

[PandaKingEX]

Wat? There's a 3v3 happening?

Yeah, check it out.

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?9832-XBL-3V3-Same-Character-Tourney.-Shake-off-October-Rust

[Slayer Alucard]

Here's the thing though. Considering it's 360 only, that cuts down to mostly randoms on the Tsubaki team, since most people here are PSN whether they're bad or good. Unless you wanna put together a team of hopeless players, we don't have much members.

[Dullyanna]

True, but it's just an xbl tourney anyway. Not like it's a huge deal lol. Even having said that, I'm not really down for it since I generally get kinda shitty connections with west coast peeps. If there's absolutely nobody else to fill a spot and I've got some spare time I might do it... Although I'm prolly among the worst people on this board lol.

[Tsuki Garyuu]

For those who had no interest in seeing, here's the patch for our Tsubaki

Tsubaki:

5D instantly gives 1 stock, but holding down D gives a slightly slower charge speed

2D starts out slow but the charge speed rapidly increases. Also more stiff now.

jD charge speed increased

5B more strong

2BB>5BB gattlings added (Cannot re-input 2BB)

236A start up time increased, if comboed into cannot be follow up [i think.]

214A, B doesn't float opponent even when done by itself

623A on counter hit, untechable time decreased so cannot follow up

cannot cancel into any move from throw, throw slides. mid screen do 236D to follow up, in corner can follow up with normal combos.

after air throw timing for follow up attacks more strict

[-Seo]

I'm really not too sure what to make of those changes. Seems like the kind of things I'd need to actually see for myself to see how they work.

[soujiro seta]

Those are from loketest 1. I don't know if they are final or not. So far so good though. At least they're headed in the right direction.

[Dullyanna]

lolwhat

Her air throw combos were already height specific, her 623 A was already a pretty shitty DP and her 236 A and throw were nerfed? I hope some of this is just a bad translation lol. I guess I can live with not canceling stuff into 2D if I have a 2B5B string, and higher emphasis on gaining + spending charge is fine if the damage justifies it.

[Taylor]

The special/throw nerfs break a lot of the stuff we use now with nothing really stepping in? I assume (read: hope) they're just watching the result of the ghetto-action charge for now.

[pktazn]

Before anyone else blows a gasket it's as soujiro seta said, it's only the first loketest which means more changes can and probably will be coming. They're just testing the waters I suppose.

I'm just glad they're actually buffing her wheee

[soujiro seta]

Before anyone else blows a gasket it's as soujiro seta said, it's only the first loketest which means more changes can and probably will be coming. They're just testing the waters I suppose.

I'm just glad they're actually buffing her wheee

Finally, arcsys is giving the yayoi a buff worthy for a royalty. I can't wait till she's actually viable, hopefully. We're going to have a sudden increase in members on her. Lol, them rags/bangs/litchis will suddenly jump ship, lol just joking.

[Ginseng]

I would prefer if we do not have a compiled changes list until the final version of the arcade release is out. It'll make things a lot more convenient for the rest of us in the end. That being said, I approve of discussion along these lines.