TaoFTW Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 oh come on. this really is kinda pathetic. where does all the complaining come from? theres so much nice stuff tsubaki can do. her A DP isnt as bad as people say, shes fast, can cover distance well, is good up close, has good air to ground and ground to air, good poke hitconformable at max reach on CH, charge cancels etc etc bla. its like everyone has already decided that shes second only to rachel for CS' biggest looser. but only because she doesnt have any attacks that can be thrown out mindlessly doesnt make her a bad character. If you can tell me that you managed to DP out of Ragna's Inferno Divider; if you can tell me you trolled every person online by mashing DP; if you can tell us that you trade hits with Litchi and - still - win; if you can IB; if you can mash 2a on hit confirmation; if you played against a Tager who can IB reversal your gatling strings; if you can tell me that you haven't lost to Ragna's Jesus kick; then you - might - have a case. Otherwise, I don't think you're giving Tsubaki players sound advice. Using DP as a good form of hit confirmation isn't a good idea. Actually, using ANYTHING to hit confirm is not good cause it'll leave you in negative frames. Any player who knows how to play BB will just IB and reversal out of Tsubaki's gatling strings. There's a good reason why there's 0 Tsubaki players on SBO. So I'm saying this for your own sanity; play her at your own risk. If you continue to insist that there's nothing wrong with Tsubaki, then I will have to - daresay - call you disillusioned and a complete scrub. Enjoy your online win streaks.
Shaffler Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 Since it will do everyone a great favor... http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s234/loki_renz/tsubakivalkyrie.png I promise that when I find a good time, I'll do it for her Astral attire, too and then fix a couple of things. And maybe even make a palette. Then probably work on the other two sisters.
DarkKnucklesTE Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 I would like to thank everyone here who has posted looking at ur comments has helped my tsubaki improve alot. Now what i have to do is learn my match-ups and start on those 5k+ combos
Slayer Alucard Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 If you can tell me that you managed to DP out of Ragna's Inferno Divider; if you can tell me you trolled every person online by mashing DP; if you can tell us that you trade hits with Litchi and - still - win; if you can IB; if you can mash 2a on hit confirmation; if you played against a Tager who can IB reversal your gatling strings; if you can tell me that you haven't lost to Ragna's Jesus kick; then you - might - have a case. Otherwise, I don't think you're giving Tsubaki players sound advice. Using DP as a good form of hit confirmation isn't a good idea. Actually, using ANYTHING to hit confirm is not good cause it'll leave you in negative frames. Any player who knows how to play BB will just IB and reversal out of Tsubaki's gatling strings. There's a good reason why there's 0 Tsubaki players on SBO. So I'm saying this for your own sanity; play her at your own risk. If you continue to insist that there's nothing wrong with Tsubaki, then I will have to - daresay - call you disillusioned and a complete scrub. Enjoy your online win streaks.That just about covered it all, mainly the IBing strings part. Her pressure game is absolutely terrible against anyone that can IB and has a good reversal. Her 2 hit normals are asking to be IB > DPed, charge canceling is gimmicky as hell, and her mix up game is below average with little rewards without meter. Only reason I even play her online is cause most people can't IB there XD
excelence Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 Mix Up game ... lol, i wish that she can jump cancel a blocked 5bb and 2147D actually hit over head =_=
seyu Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 if course i understand what your all saying. especially the argument that pretty much every other char has moves that simply outclass hers. ill admit though that i wasnt quite aware of her mixup problems. online i got no problem mixing up my opponents not cause im that good, but because simply noone seems to be able to IB online. and in offline practice the computer is way to fast for mixup anyway. so yea, but whats so bad about her mixup then? shes got an overhead, that isnt all that easy to distinguish and not to slow, one fast low and one deceptive low6B>_>, charge chancel and throws. Kinda like this discussion:3
purify Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 Since it will do everyone a great favor... http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s234/loki_renz/tsubakivalkyrie.png lol nice. Guess I'll just make do with the white colors for now. Last night I saw a replay of some guy anti air another Tsubaki's j.214 with an astral. Didn't look like it was reaction, but...lol anyway.
TD Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 The problem with Tsubaki is that her mixups are just strings of slow short ranged attacks that can be ib dp'd right out of. Even her most basic of manuevers are gimmicks. Though l personally like her risk and haven't run into problems yet, seeing countless videos of 5bb 2b- COUNTER has shown me just how bad even her pressure is.
purify Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 It's almost like a SF4 no-blockstun situation. The unblocks would be so much better if we could actually scare people into wanting to downback in the first place. Getting people to block in Blazblue has always been pretty hard though. The game is just kinda like "offense? NO, try to sit back and charge, oh you got negative penalty already? you got hit? sorry!"
pktazn Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 Another problem is that Tsubaki is not just a short-ranged character but a very short-ranged character who's moves can be beaten out by most of the cast. I still like playing her though.
DC Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 Another problem is that Tsubaki is not just a short-ranged character but a very short-ranged character who's moves can be beaten out by most of the cast. I still like playing her though. It's actually a NOL-girl thing.
pktazn Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 ^ I lol'd. Indeed, I think they like getting in other people's faces.
Halcyone3 Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 Tsubaki stores her charges to amplify her attacks while Makoto just goes ahead and uses them head on. Tsubaki is covered from head to toe; Makoto is stripped from head to toe. Tsubaki is uptight; Makoto is loose. makoto gets 4k dmg by just blinking, tsubaki has to work her ass off to get 3k.
TaoFTW Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 if course i understand what your all saying. especially the argument that pretty much every other char has moves that simply outclass hers. ill admit though that i wasnt quite aware of her mixup problems. online i got no problem mixing up my opponents not cause im that good, but because simply noone seems to be able to IB online. and in offline practice the computer is way to fast for mixup anyway. so yea, but whats so bad about her mixup then? shes got an overhead, that isnt all that easy to distinguish and not to slow, one fast low and one deceptive low6B>_>, charge chancel and throws. Kinda like this discussion:3 Nobody, online, knows how to maximize Tsubaki. Nobody, online, knows how to play against Tsubaki. Playing Blazblue, online, is - in no shape or form - high level play. The Tsubaki computer is stupid. You just need to mash DPs and you'll win. Her overhead sucks cause, even on hit confirmation, she can barely get 2k meterless. It's also has 100 frames of startup, so you can punish it with whatever you want. Her deceptive low is nothing more than a gimmick. Gimmicks work on the surface, but will never fly in competitive play. That also go with throw mixups. Her options are so limited, that you only need to guess one of three things: I THINK SHE WILL DO OVERHEAD I THINK SHE WILL DO THROW I THINK SHE WILL DO UNBLOCKABLES All can be beat by doing an offensive burst or reversal. So, assuming both players are of high level equal skill, the only way a Tsubaki player will beat anybody is if they know the matchup better. Nothing more or nothing less.
seyu Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 Nobody, online, knows how to maximize Tsubaki. Nobody, online, knows how to play against Tsubaki. Playing Blazblue, online, is - in no shape or form - high level play. The Tsubaki computer is stupid. You just need to mash DPs and you'll win. Her overhead sucks cause, even on hit confirmation, she can barely get 2k meterless. It's also has 100 frames of startup, so you can punish it with whatever you want. Her deceptive low is nothing more than a gimmick. Gimmicks work on the surface, but will never fly in competitive play. That also go with throw mixups. Her options are so limited, that you only need to guess one of three things: I THINK SHE WILL DO OVERHEAD I THINK SHE WILL DO THROW I THINK SHE WILL DO UNBLOCKABLES All can be beat by doing an offensive burst or reversal. So, assuming both players are of high level equal skill, the only way a Tsubaki player will beat anybody is if they know the matchup better. Nothing more or nothing less. i think you mean 10 frames right? also that goes for most overheads right? her damage is a known problem alread, i dont think theres a point to complaining about her damage from an overhead when the rest of her damage sucks too. ill admit that 6B is shit though... also for the last argument: thats what everybody else is doing too. excet for the unblockables, but with some other gimmicks. also you can pretty much beat anything with a reversal or a gold burst. noones immune to that and if its about baiting that stuff tsubaki can do that too.
Ginseng Posted August 10, 2010 Author Posted August 10, 2010 i think you mean 10 frames right? also that goes for most overheads right? her damage is a known problem alread, i dont think theres a point to complaining about her damage from an overhead when the rest of her damage sucks too. ill admit that 6B is shit though... also for the last argument: thats what everybody else is doing too. excet for the unblockables, but with some other gimmicks. also you can pretty much beat anything with a reversal or a gold burst. noones immune to that and if its about baiting that stuff tsubaki can do that too. Overheads are at least 20+ frames on the most part. He's exaggerating about the 100 frames, but the overhead is pretty obvious. The thing about her damage is, the opponent can afford to make a LOT more mistakes, compared to say, the Tsubaki player. "Oh? I got hit? Whatever big deal." You can beat a lot of things with reversals and gold burst, but there's a thing called risk and reward, and Tsubaki's reward off doing stuff like that...isn't really much at all. Also, compared to a lot of the cast, Tsubaki can't afford to do an IB reversal, because her reversal will either trade into NO ULTRA, or she will get beat out clean. Either that or her dp gets air thrown or something stupid. Her D DP has been beaten by jump-ins. It's rather hilarious actually. Baiting stuff? You can bait stuff with a lot of characters, but now we're moving onto higher level play where there's the element of "yomi" involved. In the end, the risks a Tsubaki player takes to get minimal damage far exceeds the risks of the majority of the cast to get decent/high damage in. And to be honest, I don't think you really have a fair say on how Tsubaki does in a competitive environment when all you've done is play netplay and computers. If you want to reinforce your arguments, I suggest posting videos or actual evidence supporting your views. Also, fixing up your grammar and spelling can help convince people in indirect ways.
purify Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 A 10 frame overhead? hahaaha, nah it's 26 Most GG dusts were faster than that. edit: the guy's from Germany apparently, so the grammar thing doesn't bother me. English is pretty nonsensical learning it as a second language, so good stuff to you international people.
pktazn Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 i think you mean 10 frames right? also that goes for most overheads right? her damage is a known problem alread, i dont think theres a point to complaining about her damage from an overhead when the rest of her damage sucks too. ill admit that 6B is shit though... also for the last argument: thats what everybody else is doing too. excet for the unblockables, but with some other gimmicks. also you can pretty much beat anything with a reversal or a gold burst. noones immune to that and if its about baiting that stuff tsubaki can do that too. Not to bash you or anything but I think they're referring to competitive/high-level play, not online play which is completely different. In general, it's accepted that Tsubaki just plain sucks compared to everyone else (online or offline) except maybe Rachel. Maybe...
seyu Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 haha alright, alright ill give you that. And sorry for the spelling and grammar mistakes i dont look out for my written language to much, my written german looks even worse thoughXD I guess ill go train a little more, its just kinda hard to find someone whos actually good in this here(just moments ago i had friends lamenting over challenge cause they couldnt beat the 3. one of any cahracter...)
Jordan Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 Well, anyone daring enough to main Tsubaki knows that sometimes, you just gotta' go for style points, . In all seriousness; though, I am hesitant to start playing competitively with her (or as competitive as I can get.) I wont feel comfortable doing so until I feel that I've mastered her essentials and basic combos, and even then I might need some luck, >.>
Halcyone3 Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 fill ur charge bar don't use any win round 214214D over their corpse tsubaki trolling for them silly hakumen :D If u feel spunky, only use A DP.
TD Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Tsubaki, Hazama and Rachel are the troll characters of the game, except Hazama can actually switch gears if it's not too late. The other two will have to wait till the patch, my vote goes for tager/bang on the bottom!
Master Bigode Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 fill ur charge bar don't use any win round 214214D over their corpse You can't activate DDs after a KO in this game.
STenSatsu Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Like Ginseng said, it's basically her risk v reward. She takes more risks because of how her moves generally lack priority and rage but only gets minimal reward from them usually. She also has pretty miserable fundamentals outside of 2c and 5b. Everything is super short and gets beat by tons. Once you get like 2 charges she becomes ok because you have a almost-real dp (wtf is up with the gap that you can jump into though) and actual decent-to-good damage off hits. It's a shame most of her gimmicks are slow enough to just get DPed. On the topic of gimmicks though, if you let somebody land from 214d and the neutral tech you can do dash 2a and go under them. EDIT:Just charge and flap dat hat on them after the ko imo.
excelence Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Tsubaki, Hazama and Rachel are the troll characters of the game, except Hazama can actually switch gears if it's not too late. The other two will have to wait till the patch, my vote goes for tager/bang on the bottom! LOL ... i dropped Hazama after knowing how silly Houtenjin can become, anyway i agree with Jordan, i play her for style points X3 ... and if i feel frustrated loosing too much, i can just troll with INFERNO DIVAIDAH~~~
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