rinuskoe Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 (edited) Does 6C[m] 5D still leave you positive? I don't know, i don't actually get to start a lot of combos off it in cs2, so i don't feel too strongly wrt the nerf on it. Always thought it was more of spacing tools though the dmg off it is very much welcome hah. Edited November 8, 2011 by rinuskoe
E3vE3 WAZ HEA Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 She still looks fun as hell to play regardless of tier and damage
Fugu Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 She still looks fun as hell to play regardless of tier and damageAgreed. So excited for faster 41236D.
Urichinan Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 Oh my God, I agree with sG, what the heck is wrong with you people. Discussing tiers in here? Why do you think EVERY SINGLE TIER LIST RELATED THREAD on DL has been LOCKED? Because it's ignorant and useless. Litchi is Litchi, she's going to get close to CS2 damage using multiple 6D's, as we've seen she can still gain a ton of meter in one combo and her Oki is still amazing. ShinShin makes her meterless Oki overall better and it's proration buffs allow for better combos, Litchi is probably going to remain exactly the same tier-wise as she was in CS2 and she's going to remain a solid character. The nerf to 6C[m] does suck, I agree with Mightfo and Fugu, it was already situational and only an alright normal, nerfing it wasn't needed, but it isn't going to effect anything in the long run. Now for the love of God, shut up.
Lord Knight Posted November 8, 2011 Author Posted November 8, 2011 Has anything come of the new 2B[m] 3C[m] gatling? No, it's exactly about moveset design. 6C[m] is Litchi's slowest normal. It's near useless in CT and CS1 and it's so situational in CS2, so why make it have low reward? Who was complaining about the damage gotten off of a move that was barely used in CS2 and almost completely unused previously? The reason that you're being derided for discussing tiers is because this isn't about the move's absolute strength, it's about the move's strength compared to the rest of her moveset. Why does this move exist if it confirms for bad damage and it's slow? Realistically, people are probably only going to use it in frame traps because if they whiff it they're doomed and even if they score a random hit it's only good for a small amount of damage. And what's great is that that's already how people are using it in its current state in spite of the fact that a random confirm off of 6C[m] does more damage than one off of any of her other normals (except like corner 6B[m] CH) and is a relatively easy move to confirm seeing as you can buffer the dash and it won't come out if it whiffs or is blocked. So the nerf just makes it even less relevant in her game plan. again, i dont see where you guys are just throwing out this move. isnt it just a frame trap and a tool to confirm off of ch 5b? 6c was used as a frame trap in ct too. . . and in cs1 it was used for some max damage hitconfirms (for example j2D > rc > 6c > itsuuA > etc)
Fugu Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 Yeah, that's exactly when I'm using it. So why make it worse, becaue it's already almost not used?
Star-Demon Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 (edited) Has anything come of the new 2B[m] 3C[m] gatling? No, it's exactly about moveset design. 6C[m] is Litchi's slowest normal. It's near useless in CT and CS1 and it's so situational in CS2, so why make it have low reward? Who was complaining about the damage gotten off of a move that was barely used in CS2 and almost completely unused previously? The reason that you're being derided for discussing tiers is because this isn't about the move's absolute strength, it's about the move's strength compared to the rest of her moveset. Why does this move exist if it confirms for bad damage and it's slow? Realistically, people are probably only going to use it in frame traps because if they whiff it they're doomed and even if they score a random hit it's only good for a small amount of damage. And what's great is that that's already how people are using it in its current state in spite of the fact that a random confirm off of 6C[m] does more damage than one off of any of her other normals (except like corner 6B[m] CH) and is a relatively easy move to confirm seeing as you can buffer the dash and it won't come out if it whiffs or is blocked. So the nerf just makes it even less relevant in her game plan. So the big deal is that you want all her normals to be useful and hopefully good. You posted a whole damn proration chart and talked about overall damage just to complain about one move? I thought you were talking about something else. I didn't really read anything you said carefully. My bad. EDIT: Actually I remember what I was talking about when I started - and it wasn't even on topic. I just kinda noticed that if you nerf rape you just rape harder and then I got mixed up in 6C somehow. Anyways. Yeah 6C is BS. 6C should be good. Edited November 8, 2011 by Star-Demon
Nakkiel Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 LK posted the chart, not Fugu what are you even talking about
Star-Demon Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 (edited) LK posted the chart, not Fugu what are you even talking about I was responding to a few. I quoted Fugu because it looked like he had to most reasonable response. Figure it out. Edited November 8, 2011 by Star-Demon
Star-Demon Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 Hey guys - I wanna apologize - I didn't make anything really clear and got mixed up in stuff you were talking about and didn't bother reading anything you had to say. I'm finding most things I participate in here very frustrating to the point where I don't care about what I anyone says or does, and that's wrong. I hope you guys can find a way to work with me so I can try to put a better foot forward.
Lord Knight Posted November 8, 2011 Author Posted November 8, 2011 Yeah, that's exactly when I'm using it. So why make it worse, becaue it's already almost not used? the thing is it is used its relatively safe, pushes to the corner a lot and does big damage. . . of course they are going to lower the damage on it, lol
Urichinan Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 the thing is it is used its relatively safe, pushes to the corner a lot and does big damage. . . of course they are going to lower the damage on it, lol The damage was indeed pretty crazy. 6C[m] > IAD > j.B > j.C > 5B > 5C(2) > 3C > Tsubame was 4.1K I think, that's WAY too good.
Star-Demon Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 the thing is it is used its relatively safe, pushes to the corner a lot and does big damage. . . of course they are going to lower the damage on it, lol 6b->6C all day. what now, Tager?
Mightfo Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 (edited) again, i dont see where you guys are just throwing out this move. isnt it just a frame trap and a tool to confirm off of ch 5b? Mostly. But it is occasionally useful in neutral. It has slightly more range than 3c, doesnt whiff on most crouchers like 6b, and is much more rewarding on both hit and block than 3c. Of course it is something that should only be very rarely used outside of gatlings due to its slow speed, but when you know they're going to stay on the ground it is something that can be very rewarding. the thing is it is used its relatively safe, pushes to the corner a lot and does big damage. . . of course they are going to lower the damage on it, lol Yeah, but ~3k damage in the corner is pathetic for this move. I can agree that the damage was silly before, but there's such a thing as being nerfed too much. Admittedly, perhaps a more optimal combo in the corner than what i saw could achieve a lot more. Does 6C[m] 5D still leave you positive? Even if it does, does this really matter? Frame advantage like that is a lot less meaningful from long range than other situations. Edited November 8, 2011 by Mightfo
Romeyurhomey Posted November 9, 2011 Posted November 9, 2011 ???? So why are we talking about 6C[m] again lol?
E3vE3 WAZ HEA Posted November 9, 2011 Posted November 9, 2011 ???? So why are we talking about 6C[m] again lol? idk no hablar espanol
Mightfo Posted November 9, 2011 Posted November 9, 2011 do you guys find any particular use for her 63214[e] series in neutral ive seen a few players try to do that after a blocked j.d in cse lol, but it usually just gets them hurt
TD Posted November 9, 2011 Posted November 9, 2011 the initial jump can be used for running away since she can hop over some air to airs. it can be used after a jump to alter your positioning which can catch ppl off guard if used sparingly. a version has staff launch, ippatsu (sp?), hatsu/chun. l've seen chun do a few interesting things; crossup a nearby foe, hop over potential punishes... its not safe though. overall a version has the most options but you have to be near the foe. meh b version punishes lots of things and has 100p1 iirc, so ch hurts. its also a big frame advantage if guarded and not glaringly punishable itself unless the foe avoided the stick launch. c version, idk wtf this is supposed to do, its fun to use but l havent seen anything interested from it. there are other uses. i dont know them
E3vE3 WAZ HEA Posted November 9, 2011 Posted November 9, 2011 the initial jump can be used for running away since she can hop over some air to airs. it can be used after a jump to alter your positioning which can catch ppl off guard if used sparingly. a version has staff launch, ippatsu (sp?), hatsu/chun. l've seen chun do a few interesting things; crossup a nearby foe, hop over potential punishes... its not safe though. overall a version has the most options but you have to be near the foe. meh b version punishes lots of things and has 100p1 iirc, so ch hurts. its also a big frame advantage if guarded and not glaringly punishable itself unless the foe avoided the stick launch. c version, idk wtf this is supposed to do, its fun to use but l havent seen anything interested from it. there are other uses. i dont know them i use the c version to psych them out if i abuse the b version and they see me doing that ill change to the c to try and catch them off gard usually to force a block or get a lucky counter hit
rinuskoe Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 In some cases i use 63214 b/c to jump over lambda's 5d. C version can cross over some chars in corner after 3c ender. Other than that, i use it for flailing (and failing) around =/
Fugu Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 I use B after combos ending in chuun sometimes and I (very rarely) use C for spacing. EDIT: It's also worth noting that you can follow B up relatively easily in or near the corner and it does pretty big damage.
Romeyurhomey Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 In the corner I like to do Ippatsu B> dash 5C>Thirteen Orphans for CH or pressure.
E3vE3 WAZ HEA Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 I use B after combos ending in chuun sometimes and I (very rarely) use C for spacing. EDIT: It's also worth noting that you can follow B up relatively easily in or near the corner and it does pretty big damage. i have a video on youtube getting big damage off of a counter 63214 b cant post it though cuz im in school and youtubes blocked TT_TT
Lord Knight Posted November 11, 2011 Author Posted November 11, 2011 new 6b combo, does about 4.5k (same as the non dp 6b ch combo) and looks more consistent and cooler 6b ch > dash 5b > 2c > 6d(1) > dash 5c > 5d > chun > staff2 > tk chun > 2c > 6d(2) > hatsu > haku > chun > 5b > 6c(1) > 4kote > jB > dj jBCD > falling jC > ender
mynus Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) Sick new corner B&B using 3 6D's - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBQUG4mnEcA#t=10m48s - I am about to leave to go to the Arcade right now to test this. Not sure if it will work on chars like Hazama where the 2nd hit of OTG whiffs. Might have to use ittsuu-A ender instead. Ill post again with damage values after I've tested it and seen what variations I can get with whatever starter. Luckily there are quite a few Litchi's at my main Arcade. As of right now the transcription is: Blah-Blah starter - 6d(2) > hatsu > riichi-a > ippatsu-a > ippatsu-b > 5d > 6a > staff2 > 6a > 6b(m) > 6d(2) > 3c > 2d > 6c(2) > 6d(2) > 3c > 4kote > oki. So far doesn't work on Lambda and Mu (can't connect 6b(m) after the second 6a. Haven't tested Hazama yet. Edited November 12, 2011 by mynus
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