Going Back to Guilty Gear

[qwerty]

But SFIV did pretty much revive the FG genre.

it depends on what you mean by revive.

if you mean that it spurred the release of fighting games again and boosted sales of the genre overall, well then you're wrong. fighting game sales are no better or worse as a result of sf4.

but, if you're talking about how it's impacted the scene (particularly in the us), then no argument here.

[Hellmonkey]

that seems to be the strategy for "convincing" BB players to play GG.

The only reason I think some GG players became that way is because so much of the new blood in the GG community just stopped playing it for BB in the first place.

Ideally BB players can pick up GG and play both, but that hasn't happened for a long time now and some GG players are rightfully frustrated with the scene as a whole.

It's understandable how someone would pick up BB before GG because it's more accessible and has prettier sprites, but it's disappointing how few players actually picked up GG again or are picking it up fresh after realizing GG offers something BB doesn't have. Having an introduction to the game with the information available to them in an even easier and more accessible way might help a bit, but to be honest there is a hell of a lot of great information on dustloop and people willing to answer questions, so anyone who has an interest should not have that tough of a time as it is.

[PimpUigi]

Yeah, Ky is already Holy Order Ky.

lolol

If they do release an updated version of GG, they only need to make very very slight balance changes, like slightly bigger hit boxes for B through D tier characters, and slightly nerfed hit boxes for S, and A tier characters...possibly extended time, and shortened time where enemies can tech certain moves...like Robo-Ky would be much better if people couldn't always just tech out of his 5HS FRS, dash c.S (very hard to get the dash c.S in)

IMHO the untechable time should only be extended by one frame though on whatever moves, maybe two frames at the most. Or just speed another move up so you can catch the opponent anyway.

Other than those slight balance changes...make all FRC windows 8 frames instead of 2/3.

I mean come on, it already takes a quarter of your bar. It doesn't need to be ultra hard to time on top of that.

And we all know the Slash announcer was way better than the Accent Core announcer!

[M.Song]

Yeah, Ky is already Holy Order Ky.

lolol

If they do release an updated version of GG, they only need to make very very slight balance changes, like slightly bigger hit boxes for B through D tier characters, and slightly nerfed hit boxes for S, and A tier characters...possibly extended time, and shortened time where enemies can tech certain moves...like Robo-Ky would be much better if people couldn't always just tech out of his 5HS FRS, dash c.S (very hard to get the dash c.S in)

IMHO the untechable time should only be extended by one frame though on whatever moves, maybe two frames at the most. Or just speed another move up so you can catch the opponent anyway.

Other than those slight balance changes...make all FRC windows 8 frames instead of 2/3.

I mean come on, it already takes a quarter of your bar. It doesn't need to be ultra hard to time on top of that.

And we all know the Slash announcer was way better than the Accent Core announcer!

everyone's hit boxes are fine as they are.. and pretty sure that modifying hit boxes isn't very slight balancing

5hs frc c.s with roboky isn't that hard to connect (his problems are his lack of mixups, reliable AA, and air to grounds)

8 frame frc windows would be unnecessarily huge too... there are only a few frcs that are very difficult

[ZONG_one]

Ay dodgemonkey I've been playing lately.

Hit me up if you want to get bodied.

rofl.

FRC 8 frames?

scrub.

[tolore]

Not to mention increasing the the length of time an FRC lets you start doing crazy things like waiting and watching for punishes before you frc.

[PimpUigi]

I play as Holy Order Sol, I virtually never FRC. It's not a problem for me.

FRC at 8 frames guarantees the people I play won't fuck up their FRC combos anymore.

I don't really care about the hitbox changes, I just think you know, a pixel here or there to help with problems.

Like Robo-Ky's AA issue could be helped slightly by increasing a vertical hitbox by one pixel. I fly right over him with an air dash, and there's nothing he can do. lol?

Hit box changes don't need to happen at all I suppose, Guilty Gear balance is just fine, certainly one of the most balanced fighters around IMHO

So really, I only emphasize the need for FRC fixing, since I think it's just stupid to take up a quarter of the bar for something ultra hard to time. It wouldn't change balancing or top tier play, just casual players could break in easier.

It should take up no super bar for how hard it is to time IMHO

8 frames

This is the equivalent to what SF4 did for SF nubs...lol

Double tap forward for SRK! Genius!

I don't think they should put that crap in here of course. Just fix the FRC timing, don't create baby zone.

Like I said, I could care less for myself, I play as Holy Order Sol.

This is just for the annoying "FRC didn't come out" excuses I've had to endure the entire length of my Guilty Gear experience.

"If only I could get my FRC's to come out, I could beat your HO'S, you're so lucky he doesn't need them, you don't understand how hard and stupid it is."

[Nakkiel]

Haha, this discussion has happened plenty of times before and advocates for FRC windows being increased ALWAYS say "it wouldn't change anything!".

Are you fucking kidding me? You seriously don't think that extra frames on certain FRCs wouldn't change anything? And you could care less because you play HOS, you think he doesn't need them? Stay free, quit playing with scrubs.

[unsanctifier]

i don't know how to play

...Wow, just wow.

[PimpUigi]

They take up a quarter of the bar, why should I have to listen to constant complaining about them not coming out?

HO'S doesn't really need them either.

Oh boy, I can fake out someone and get a throw off, or, get an active charge in, in the middle of a combo for 10 extra points of damage. Whoopdiedo.

And the active charge FRC is easy as shit already anyway.

Point is, many characters suck without them from what I can see (but I only play as HO'S so this is coming from someone who only hears people complain) and since it takes a quarter of the bar, and the fight should be more in the mind than in tech skill...why the heck not?

The only way it would change the game is, less people would become frustrated, thus less people would leave.

I haven't left, I'm not frustrated, except with how small the GG scene has become.

May even get more people into the scene since they can L2P faster.

[qwerty]

plop

[tolore]

I already gave one reason why longer frc window lengthening DOES change the game on this very page.

[Seku]

Holy Order Ky is already in the game. You mean King Ky.

Son... I am disappoint.

[Nakkiel]

I can already tell you now you're probably a below average at best HOS player. Specifically since every single one of his FRCs opens up a facet of his gameplay. The fact you don't think they're useful (ESPECIALLY in combos LOL) is pretty much a testament to your skill and knowledge with the character.

Tie that in with the fact that you don't think larger FRC windows would drastically change gameplay, uses of certain moves and the strengths of certain moves is ridiculous. They're short and precise for a reason other than technical prowess, but I guess you can't wrap your brain around that.

[PimpUigi]

My join date predates yours. I'm an east coast player. You have no idea how good I am.

None of his FRC's are needed notice needed isn't the word "useful."

I do acknowledge that they would change the game, because then people would actually get to see them much more often.

[ehuangsan]

Ky with 8 frame FRCs would be fucking amazing. I approve of this.

[Nakkiel]

My join date predates yours.

100% irrelevant.

I'm an east coast player.

Yeah, and? From the sound of it you're not playing with anybody skilled.

You have no idea how good I am.

You told me.

None of his FRC's are needed notice needed isn't the word "useful."

They're needed at high-level.

[Spirit Juice]

it depends on what you mean by revive.

if you mean that it spurred the release of fighting games again and boosted sales of the genre overall, well then you're wrong. fighting game sales are no better or worse as a result of sf4.

but, if you're talking about how it's impacted the scene (particularly in the us), then no argument here.

Not going to sit here and say that I know what the sales numbers are (I doubt you do too, but that is beside the point :P), but yeah, the latter is what I meant in the first place. Sales might not be any different, but scene itself has grown in size and presence.

Ideally BB players can pick up GG and play both, but that hasn't happened for a long time now and some GG players are rightfully frustrated with the scene as a whole.

While this is a valid point, the GG community shouldn't be frustrated with BB taking away potential players (if that's what you are implying), but with the GG community itself. Let's be real here. The GG community is the biggest, laziest, most apathetic community in the fighting game community. I think the community has proven that over the course of seven years in the US.

[Hecatom]

Hecatom on that SRK hivemind

snip

mind blowing:vbang:

plop

Condorito reference?

[unsanctifier]

as tolore said, larger FRC window would make a HUGE difference in gameplay...

if it suddenly cost half as much to fake out an opponent and bait a punish of some sort then punishes would get punished more @_@

FRC is ALWAYS useful, and they're only in specific moves for a good reason which is why you can say this game is balanced already, what you're suggesting would completely destroy that

now i don't play OS but i know damn well that if you wanna be a big time player and compete with the rest of the top players you need to use every mechanic available to you, else you would be at a disadvantage to those who are using everything at their disposal...

and more importantly you don't want to make a game too scrub friendly, it would piss of the legitimate players in the community who "earned" their right to play GG, or whatever bullshit excuse they wanna give, the point is you gotta walk the line if you want more players, and since none of us are programming this game all we can do is community based stuff to get more people to play GG

[Adelheid]

IMO increasing the window for FRCs would be fine if it was done like how BB makes things easier, where you can press it up to 5f early to have it FRC on the first FRC frame. That doesn't let you wait any longer to see something and punish it, nor screw with when the cancel can happen. Although that still does present issues with moves you can RC and FRC after the hit. But whatever.

In fact, the whole input holding system is cool and could probably be safely ported over. And many combos don't get even a bit easier when doing that, like... venom teleport combos, sol sidewinder loops, anything where moves need to be done at a time other than the very first frame possible. So pros still have stuff they can lord over newer players.

It's probably not necessary (I like GG the way it is after all) but it does make it friendlier to new players without imo dumbing it down too much, or changing what's actually possible.

[qwerty]

Not going to sit here and say that I know what the sales numbers are (I doubt you do too, but that is beside the point :P)

public sales figures aren't the best, that's for sure.

word from a certain insider is that sfiv actually failed to outsell mkvsdc and capcom got p upset over that.

but yeah i love jchensor because he knows what's up + he plays cvs2 but goddamn dude you're giving sfiv more credit than it deserves it really didn't have anything to do with bb getting released in the us i promise.

[Ky-Sama]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread to post this in, but ElvenShadow wrote in his blog about the future of Guilty Gear: (Read near the end of post "Adventures in Nagoya")http://www.elvenshadowmike.blogspot.com/

For those who care to read it, and do not wish to search for it in his blog, read my spoiler tag:

I talked with Pachi quite a bit about the future of Guilty Gear and Blazblue and Arc System works. Basically, I might as well just let the community know whats going on, so I will just say it like it is. Pachi wants to make a new GG fighting game but the bosses at ASW have no desire to make a new GG fighting game at the moment and want to focus on BB. Thats not to say that tey never will again, but if they do, we probably wont see it for a couple of years, and Pachi will probably be the one in charge of it. He wants to make a new GG that feels and plays faithful to the old ones, but he said he would make it 3d graphics sorta similar to SSFIV, but would try to keep the look of the game the same. He also said he would follow the current trend of new fighting games coming out recently by trying to make the game simpler so that new players have an easier time of getting into it. So basically, he says he would take FRCs and Slashbacks out of the game. I tried to convince him to just make FRC timing more lenient but he said they just would be too hard for most average players. He really wants to see GG become something big like SF has, even if it means not catering completely to the hardcore players. I gave him all the arguments you would expect, but in the end, it comes down to me seeing things as a hardcore fan and hes looking at things from a business standpoint. But dont take it the wrong way, I can honestly say the man has the utmost respect and love for the series and really wants to see it thrive and even if he did implement those changes, I have confidence it would still play like a GG game. Since the game isnt even in development yet, theres really no reason to even speculate about it yet, but this is basically how it is. We also talked about online AC and basically he agrees with me that it would be a great idea, but that ASW bosses just would rather first make a new GG than re-release AC again, which IMO is a stupid business decision and is also not good for the community. This is in no way Pachi's fault though. He also told me (and I dont know how common knowledge this is but I didnt know till now) that the last GG game that Daisuke Ishiwatari actually worked on was #reload and that once XX came out, Daisuke had already considered to be the complete and final GG game but was convinced to make #reload. Slash and AC directed/worked on/whatever by other people at ASW with very little to no influence by Daisuke Ishiwatari. So I guess we were lucky that we even got Slash and AC. So, if you want to keep playing AC, the scenes outside of Japan are just going to have to try to push their local and national scenes harder as things are, or pretty much settle for playing other games. Dont wait around for a new GG if you really want to play GG again, just start playing it again now. Keep in mind people can enjoy and be good at more than one game. I play a fair amount of SSFIV these days but GG is still my main game and always will be.

For those who care/have read it; the choice is yours what you want to do with Guilty Gear XX: /\Core...

[Spirit Juice]

A$W

[PimpUigi]

I'm going to push it. The game is beast.

The only anime fighter worth spending any time with IMHO (I hate anime though, except for Vampire Hunter D 1, and Pet Shop of Horrors)

I talked with Lord Knight about FRC's, and he thinks they're stupid.

So he doesn't agree with me about making the window for them longer, he thinks they just shouldn't be in the game, and then you have to make the characters move just plain better...

He sees my point though.

IMO increasing the window for FRCs would be fine if it was done like how BB makes things easier, where you can press it up to 5f early to have it FRC on the first FRC frame. That doesn't let you wait any longer to see something and punish it, nor screw with when the cancel can happen. Although that still does present issues with moves you can RC and FRC after the hit. But whatever.

make it friendlier to new players without imo dumbing it down too much, or changing what's actually possible.

This was what I was trying to get across.