[CS1] Iron Tager Evolution in the Loketests

[DJ Koopa]

Though the 5C has more hitstun than the 6A, which they'll be able to see me holding and react accordingly.

EDIT: Also, seeing as I just downloaded 1.02 (and bought Valkenhayn who I'll start playing as until 2.0 when all of Tager's changes are applied), it seems the projectile guard thingie has already been applied to his Hammer. I've blocked 5 projectiles in a single match in the middle of Hammer, so...

Edited December 7, 2010 by DJ Koopa

[A.X.I.S.]

I am more worried about losing 6A>air throw, it was a great trap and CH fisher if you knew what your doing with it.

[Mike Z]

2A->airthrow still exists...

[Nobus3r1]

Sledge is not faster, hammer is.

I'm interested to see if it crosses the line between faster and fast enough to actually be useful.

[A.X.I.S.]

Guys Guys I bring you good news...

I've been checking out some things about tager for CS2.

Yes I got good news...kinda.

J.B picks up hazama, Tsubaki, Litchi, and Valk.

on hazama its just as hard as hitting jin...so in other words walk a step.

It also seems like we lost 5C>6A.

I have to rely on google until I can get someone to fully confirm it.

grain of salt.

source: http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/bbs/read.cgi/game/45148/1289146497/l50

Edited December 9, 2010 by A.X.I.S.

[evilben]

yea, the loss of 5C > 6A was in the first loketest i think. but gaining more J.B finishers is awesome (means i should learn to actually do it i guess...)

i think most of the changes are going to be as Nobus says, a lot of changes are going to come down to "faster or fast enough to be useful"

the changes to mag fall in this, as do 3c and hammer. im most worried about 3c as it is now our follow up if 2c is blocked, its going to suck if there is no remotely safe followup for 2c...

Edited December 9, 2010 by evilben

[A.X.I.S.]

Anyways in the changes thread tager still kept all the changes from the loctest.

I think they said he can do 6A>5C gatling which is pretty safe.

[GenoWhirl]

Merry Christmas, Tager

[Darlos9D]

So basically, the plan is to guard break people and then hit them with guaranteed throws?

Sounds hilarious.

[killionaire]

So basically, the plan is to guard break people and then hit them with guaranteed throws?

Sounds hilarious.

That's what I'm reading too.

Sounds like ass for everyone on the receiving end.

[Azzal]

I play Tager as my main since CT, but if this is his new gameplay plan, it sucks ass...

I loved all his troll gimmick and stuffs, that's why I'm maining him, not for a such brainless schema.

[Darlos9D]

I'm pretty sure he'll still have bullshit throw setup opportunities aplenty. I wouldn't worry about that too much.

[Andarel]

The plan is:

If you're playing against Tager, think 3 or 4 times before bursting. Pretty sure he still has issues getting in - so bursting is still great to knock him across the field - you're just eventually going to eat 2C 3C. Or, stop blocking and take the like a man.

All things considered, I don't see a problem. Will teach scrubs to get better at IB > Backdash.

[Nini Heart]

I play Tager as my main since CT, but if this is his new gameplay plan, it sucks ass...

I loved all his troll gimmick and stuffs, that's why I'm maining him, not for a such brainless schema.

Yo, you choose how to play him. Stop complaining when you get buffs. You don't wanna guard break, then don't.

I mean WTF? Now that Tager's really scary up close with a 4 primer break string if he has 50 meter, you guys are complaining?

And guard break 720 is the ultimate troll to me after guard break astral.

[Andarel]

Some buffs are legitimately boring - like, say, Tao's taunt combo buffs from CT to CS1.

But yeah, these changes are fun. I wonder what you can do with the new 6A exactly?

[Azzal]

Did I complain about his buffs?

I just reacted to the fact that, I quote" Tager is overpowered, guard break>720 lolol"

All I say is that if this is effectively overpowered, it suxx. I don't want to rely only on that.

But if that's the case, of course I'm gonna use it.

But on the paper, I don't really like it.

We'll see when it will be released on PS3.

[evilben]

updated the OP with the info from CS2 release, ill keep it updated as i can. i dont have net at home right now (other than my phone) so if you want to edit the post to add stuff feel free to AXIS.

i think guard crush tactics are pretty neat, it allows him to be really scary even if his combos do average damage. what i really like about it, is it makes bursting against tager a VERY risky prospect. everyone who bursts besides tager is down to two primers, an RC combo that breaks 5 primers is pretty much a guaranteed guard crush into 360b or 720 for massive damage. we have a hard time getting in on people and this just makes one of the main ways to get tager off you a much less safe option.

[OmniSScythe]

The plan is:

If you're playing against Tager, think 3 or 4 times before bursting. Pretty sure he still has issues getting in - so bursting is still great to knock him across the field - you're just eventually going to eat 2C 3C. Or, stop blocking and take the like a man.

All things considered, I don't see a problem. Will teach scrubs to get better at IB > Backdash.

With the IB nerf and Tager's blockstun you just going to have to deal with it or have a reversal and hope there a 1 frame opening on IB (or that IB+barrier gets you out).

[FlyingVe]

With the IB nerf and Tager's blockstun you just going to have to deal with it or have a reversal and hope there a 1 frame opening on IB (or that IB+barrier gets you out).

Of course the reverse of that is true also, and it hurts Tager worse than others.

[Osuna]

Tagers level of awesome seems to hinge on the new 6A's potential to help him get in. If you look at what recovers guard primers, it pretty much what everyone does to us all day. Being able to break even 4 primers on someone who bursted isn't always a guard break or even danger mode if they had full barrier, 2 is almost not worth considering. Then they can get back to zoning us and get them back without that much fuss. The only awesome thing about this, is spark bolt. It's fast, and breaks a primer, and can be special canceled into randomly, forcing them to really have to pay attention. I think it makes guard break plausible, which will at least put pressure on them to barrier more and make both danger mode and the primer strings more viable. Otherwise this guard break thing is just something to make people rage quit because they don't know the Tager match up, but isn't actually that good. Same old same old.

I also want to second that making Tagers really bad pressure slightly less bad is not worth making his few defensive options the opponent had to worry about almost non existent. It's not like we got repeatable pressure, mostly our unsafe stuff just turned into disadvantage. In exchange our IB 360B points (Or what would have been) get pushed down to IB360A points and 360A points are 720 only, maaybe non existent if it was really tight, I forget how things work and whether it amounts to a 1 frame timing or a no gap in the end.

And all of our 720 only spots are very very gone. That's kinda a big deal to me.

So is Tager's new 6A properties a good way to get in? If it isn't then the whole guard break thing is almost meaningless since I don't know how you expect to get them into 2C range 2 times before their primer/barrier recovers. And that's if they used up a burst.

[Brother Mojo]

EDIT: Decided to not post stuff that everyone knows and post potentially useful stuff instead.

On the note of IB->whatever, 360A requires a 3-frame gap, and IB advantage is 2 frames less, so I think all IB->360A points remain as at least IB -> 720 points, and the longer ones should remain as IB->360A points... basically anything that was only barely too short to safely IB->360B, i.e. 5 or 6 frames, will still be possible to IB->360A

Edited December 9, 2010 by Brother Mojo

[Konner]

Tager's gameplan is breaking primers?

#1 Troll

[Heroic_Legacy]

I'd probably say don't waste meter to break primers because then that's a 720less guard break punish. Now if B Buster got super damage like 5k combo meterless, then I'd be all for it.

[Lumination]

Then, obviously only use RC for removing primers when you have 95+ meter.

Also, for all the reasons Osuna mentioned, I'm not sure how amazing this primer-breaking strategy is going to be. Could turn out like pre-game hype that Tager got before CS1. Unless they changed the system mechanic, the opponent can always just save their burst for after you guard break them. If it cost you some meter and your game relied on that, it wouldn't be too bad of a trade-off.

[mAc Chaos]

How much room is there between 2C > 3C? Could they counter or reversal in between?