[CS2] Noel CS1 -> CS2 Changlog

[Nini Heart]

Noel Cs2 Footage. Credit to Henaki in video posting thread.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12996454

Wow noel's projectile is actually good and can be used to continue pressure. 5C>6B gatling is also very good too. Can't wait for CS2. Oh yeah 4K damage off 2D without doing anything fancy in a game where everyone's damage is nurfed >.>

[ThunderboltZ28]

Noel Cs2 Footage. Credit to Henaki in video posting thread.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12996454

Wow noel's projectile is actually good and can be used to continue pressure. 5C>6B gatling is also very good too. Can't wait for CS2. Oh yeah 4K damage off 2D without doing anything fancy in a game where everyone's damage is nurfed >.>

Apparently you need an account to see the video.

[LunaKage]

It seems the Noel user decided to use a second d.6B in the ONE COMBO HE DID'T DROP! But yes it did 4k, do you think some moves lost same move proration?

[Chiizu]

That would be really cool if same move proration was gone. That put aside, CR really looks faster now. Perhaps d.6B will finally be a viable overhead, especially since it's a 4k combo starter now.

But j.236c being nerfed kind of hurts. I already had some trouble keeping tsubakis from jumping away and charging their install bar and now i just don't know what i'm supposed to do.

EDIT: Oh my delicious air unblockable 5B...

Edited December 11, 2010 by Chiizu

[SkyKing]

You can go here if you don't have a Nico account. Just copy and paste the address into the box.

http://mmcafe.com/nico.html

So what they meant with d.6B is that it ground bounces now, not wall bounce. And her drives looked mad fast, so canceling into Optic during a blocked CR seems like a safe option if you don't want to risk the mix-ups being correctly guess. Now 2D looks like the new 5D in terms of usage to start drive combos.

[HexaNoid]

Now 2D looks like the new 5D in terms of usage to start drive combos.

It's like we're playing CT all over again.

You know what you said earlier about the BBS bypassing Bloom Trigger in Noel's combos? Got any more info on that? The guy in the video used it as an ender so I'm just wondering what is the actual deal with that move.

[SkyKing]

It's like we're playing CT all over again.

You know what you said earlier about the BBS bypassing Bloom Trigger in Noel's combos? Got any more info on that? The guy in the video used it as an ender so I'm just wondering what is the actual deal with that move.

Nothing so far as to concrete info as to why you would just go straight to Fenrir. IMO, it probably has to do with a couple of factors. It could be that you get a non-CH normal, an odd collision, or spacing would not allow you to connect a 6A, 3C, or possibly an Optic if the game allows. For example, maybe you catch with a max range 5B, and you know that going 5B > 2B > 6A won't reach. Maybe in that instance you could go 5B > 5C > Fenrir or 5B > 2B > 5C > Fenrir. Something to that extent.

Although I did see someone post it during one of her longer combos w/ CR in the middle. My only guess would be that it may be a more damaging mid-screen option to bypass the Bloom Trigger and go straight to Fenrir. The wall carry should be the same, and both are untechable until they hit the ground so she would be trading off meter for damage.

[rei-Scarred]

I'm watching through Jourdal's new CS2 stuff. I think it's the same thing Henaki posted.

Youtube link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLaVQ0tXdgc

If I see more Noel I'll post it. Spring Raid trajectory is hilarious.

[SkyKing]

I'm watching through Jourdal's new CS2 stuff. I think it's the same thing Henaki posted.

Youtube link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLaVQ0tXdgc

If I see more Noel I'll post it. Spring Raid trajectory is hilarious.

Yeah, it's the same one.

Noel's hella fast here, like CT fast. Now, people are going to have to guess when we rush in and when we stop and pop an Optic Barrel or CR starter, most likely 2D. Having a buffed 5B along with the air unblockable normals system change gives us pretty good normals to stop escapes and pressure them to the corner. Her aerials are still some of the worst ones, IMO. It shouldn't be too bad since her ground game is where it's at anyway.

[Bolverk-GTM]

Okay, sorry for my absence from the thread for a little while, I've contributed nothing like I said I would.

So are we dancing yet or are we dancing for Noel changes? I sure know I am. Noel sounds pretty scary good again. Maybe not the same degree as CT, but she's still close enough considering that the rest of the cast got changes and stuff too.

[Andarel]

Considering we've no Nu/CT Rachel/CT Arakune...

Noel is looking beast right now. God damn.

[SgCloud]

I read somewhere before that you couldn't cancel into MF from a throw anymore, I guess this doesn't hold true anymore (never has?) ?

[Bolverk-GTM]

I read somewhere before that you couldn't cancel into MF from a throw anymore, I guess this doesn't hold true anymore (never has?) ?

In previous loke, they said that it couldn't be cancelled into from 6B+C, which means it could possibly still be cancelled into from 4B+C. Then again I'm not sure if this change actually set in or not as final, we'll just have to wait and see.

[ThunderboltZ28]

Maybe because I'm watching and not playing, but it looks like Noel's everything got faster. That is bloody awesome. That midscreen combo looks like something I can do.

I'm guessing you can't rapid after Spring Raid to follow up, eh? So its just to send them across screen now?

[dragontamer]

I was watching this:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12996454

Here's things that I notice:

* Optic Barrel is a hell of a lot faster

* 5B is air-unblockable now (blue exclamation point near the 3 minute mark)

* d.5C has less startup and appears to cancel into the next attack sooner as well.

* Fenrir does awesome minimum damage

[Dorian]

* Fenrir does awesome minimum damage

Close to or 1000 off the last hit, but it looks like the previous shots prorate more?

[hobbes713]

It was pretty funny watching Hakuman get hit by the 5C > 6B new gattling. Guess he wasn't expecting an overhead after 5C.

Can you jump cancel 5C now?

[Chiizu]

Yeah, on block or hit apparently, that's the best part of it.

Maaaan, Noel is looking so bloody fine thus far.

[Soriphen]

If it's on block...then Noel will have godly blockstring pressure.

[Konton]

Noel and Rachel are back<3

CS2 is about to be so awesome.

[2 GB Combo]

Not really. Everyone has good anti-airs now. It would be probably as good as CT blockstring pressure, which while good wasn't amazing (not like CS1 Bang or Litchi).

Well if j.4d is as fast as everybody is making it sound, then we maybe could use it as an anti anti-air. It could potentially scare opponents to not attempt anti-airs. But 5C being jump cancelable on block just helps Noel pressure be safer and have just more options in general.

[Kirivon]

It seems the Noel user decided to use a second d.6B in the ONE COMBO HE DID'T DROP! But yes it did 4k, do you think some moves lost same move proration?

Probably yes. Since I'm bored and need a break from practicing dashed fenrirs, and since this combo works in CS1 so long as you don't tech, here's the breakdown:

2d d.6a d.6c 214a 2b 6c j.d d.6d d.6b d.5c d.6b d.236d

CS1: 635, 864, 1452, 2252, 2343, 2501, 2846, 3008, 3158, 3294, 3364, 3477

CS2: 732, 1010, 1631, 2431, 2599, 2791, 3187, 3406, 3504, 3751, 3842, 4010

CS1 CS2 Change

2d: 635 732 +17%

d.6a: 229 278 +21%

d.6c: 588 621 +6%

214a: 800 800 0

2b: 91 168 +85%

6c: 158 192 +22%

j.d: 345 396 +15%

d.6d: 162 219 +35%

d.6b: 150 98 -35%

d.5c: 136 247 +82%

d.6b(2):70 91 +30%

d.235d:113 168 +49%

Proration on the 2nd d.6b is 53% in CS1 and only 7% in CS2. On why this combos in CS2 and not CS1 it's probably mostly down to the moves being faster within CR. Execution of combo is ~8.3s in CS2, opposed to ~8.5s in CS1.

Editzzzz: Corner combo time.

6b+raid, 66c, 66c2, 66c, j.d, 6d, d.6b, d.5b, d.5c, 236d, fenrir pt1, fenrir pt2

CS1: 1299, 1506, 1814, 2011, 2443, 2646, 2768, 2882, 2976, 3118, 3602, 4042

CS2: 1158, 1351, 1651, 1843, 2219, 2458, 2580, 2684, 2771, 2936, 3130, 4110

CS1 CS2 Change

6b+raid: 1299 1158 -11.00%

66c: 207 192 -7.00%

66c2: 308 300 -3.00%

66c: 197 192 -3.00%

j.d: 432 376 -13.00%

6d: 203 239 18.00%

d.6b: 122 122 0.00%

d.5b: 114 104 -9.00%

d.5c: 94 87 -7.00%

236d: 142 165 16.00%

fenrir1: 484 194 -60.00%

fenrir2: 400 980 123.00%

Proration values seem to be vastly different given the context. Regardless, Fenrir should be good for ~1150 damage to the end of a combo, which would put the 2d BnB at 4.9k with super. Seems like big damage from easy drive combos + no spring raid midscreen/haida = easy moodo tierwhores inc.

Edited December 12, 2010 by Kirivon

[LunaKage]

You just blew my mind Kirivon, stay gdlk.

If I may ask though, how did you figure all this out? Just compared the video with a motionless dummy in training mode?

Optic barrel combos?

What is this.

Copypasta'd:

+ j.4D is faster, hits low.

+ Optic Barrel has less startup frames

+ "5B > 2B" works.

+ "2C > 5C" works.

+ 6A hits crouching opponents.

+ 5B has a bigger hitbox (?).

+ j.B and j.C both with bigger hitbox.

+ d.6A is FC now, less prorate.

+ d.5C is faster, does not jump cancel.

+ 6C has a bigger hitbox (?).

+ 4D has bigger stagger time; "4D > 6A" is possible.

+ Assault Through has a bigger vertical hitbox.

+ 22C (1 hit) and 22B can be followed-up with a lot of stuff.

- Assault Through's travelled distance has been reduced.

- Bullet Rain causes less damage.

- Revolver Blast causes less damage.

- 5D is slower.

- Spring Raid can only be followed up in corner.

o Bloom Trigger has sliding property.

o The opponent flies higher when hit by 22C, does have Dash Cancel, it could have same move proration.

o "d.6B" causes wallbounce if the opponent is hit while in the air.

o 6C's second hit can be followed up in the corner; has same move proration.

o 2D may still be causing cross ups.

Combos

[2.200 Damage]

- Throw, Muzzle Flitter, 2B, 6C, j.D, 6D, 6B, 5D, 5C, Bloom Trigger

[2.300 Damage]

- 5A, 6A, 6C, A Optic Barrel, 6C, j.D, 6D, 6B, 5D, 5C, Bloom Trigger

[2.600 Damage]

- 6B, 6C, 2C, 3C, 22C, 2A, 6C, j.D, 6D, 6B, 5D, 5C, Bloom Trigger

[2.800 Damage, Corner]

- 5A, 6A, 6C, A Optic Barrel, 6C (2 hits), 6C, j.D, 6D, 6B, 5D, 5C, Bloom Trigger

[3.000 Damage]

- 6B, 3C, 22C, 6C, A Optic Barrel, 6C, j.D, 6D, 6B, 5D, 5C, Bloom Trigger

[3.100 Damage]

- Air Throw, 2B, 6C, A Optic Barrel, 6C, 22C, 6C, j.D, 6D, 6B, 5D, 5C, Bloom Trigger

[3.500 Damage, Corner]

- Throw, 22B~C, 6C, 4D, 6C, Spring Raid, 6C, j.D, 6D, 6B, 5D, 5C, Bloom Trigger

[4.000 Damage]

- 5D, 5C, 6C, Muzzle FLitter, 2B, 6C, A Optic Barrel, 6C, j.D, 6D, 6B, 5D, 5C, Bloom Trigger

[4.286 Damage]

- 2D, 5B, 6A, 6C, Muzzle Flitter, 2B, 6C, A Optic Barrel, 6C, j.D, 6D, 6B, 5D, 5C, Bloom Trigger

[4.500 Damage]

- 2D, 5C, 6C, Muzzle Flitter, 2B, 6C, Throw whiff, 6C, 22C, 6C, A Optic Barrel, 6C, j.D, 6D, 5D, Bloom Trigger

[3.500 Damage, oponente agachado]

- 2D, 5C, 6C, A Optic Barrel, 6C, j.D, 6D, 5D, Bloom Trigger

[3.950 Damage]

- 3C, 22B~C, 6C, 22B, 6D, 6C, A Optic Barrel, 6C, j.D, 6D, 5D, 6B, 5C, Bloom Trigger

[3.900 Damage]

- 3C, 22B~C, 6C, 22B, 6D, 6C, 5C, A Optic Barrel, 6C, j.D, 6D, 5D, Bloom Trigger

[4.400 Damage, corner]

- CR.6B, Spring Raid, 6C, 4D, Bloom Trigger, 6C (2 hits), 6C, (Throw whiff?), 6C, j.D, 6D, 6B, 5B, 5C, Bloom Trigger

[6.000 Damage, corner]

- j.4D (FC), 6C, 2D, 5D, 5C, A Optic Barrel, 6C, 2D, Spring Raid, 6C (2 hits), j.D, 6D, 5B, 6C, Bloom Trigger, Fenrir

[Astral Heat]

- 5A, 6A, 6C, AH

- 5D, 6A, 6C, AH

Do you have a source for this? I'd like to get a second opinion, since a lot of this seems too good to be true, I wanna make sure its 100% accurate before I put it into the OP.

[Kirivon]

If I may ask though, how did you figure all this out? Just compared the video with a motionless dummy in training mode?

Yeah, basically. Recorded the combos in training mode then played it back/paused to get the numbers. Both combos work in CS1, they just blue beat.

[Alpha152]

Both combos work in CS1, they just blue beat.

Isn't a blue beat not a combo?