dragontamer Posted December 23, 2010 Posted December 23, 2010 Fairly powerful 5C counter-hit combo in that makoto vs noel video. At 4180+ midscreen its a little bit stronger than 5C CH -> 3C Haida loop from BBCS1. 5C CH -> 5D -> 6A -> 6C -> 214A -> 2B -> 6C BC-> 6C -> 22BC -> 66 -> 6C -> j.D -> 6D -> 5C -> 6B -> 236D. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pvl63iJYWM 7 minutes 30 seconds or so.
LunaKage Posted December 23, 2010 Posted December 23, 2010 it does indeed seem powerful, maybe if the ender was modified to > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > 236D it would have done more damage?
dragontamer Posted December 23, 2010 Posted December 23, 2010 (edited) Because of the proration system, the combo enders are not quite as important as the combo starters. Here's the golden question: 5D -> d.6A or 5D -> d.5C ? Both lead to d.6C (which hopefully still prorates nicely). That would make the bigger difference. d.6A clearly prorates much better than it did in BBCS1. Another note is that 22BC actually hit makoto midscreen, so the 22B and 22BC hitboxes are all much bigger now (either that, or makoto is much bigger...). Anyway, a similar combo in BBCS1 barely registers above 3.2k By theorycrafting, here's my take on the "optimal combo". 5C CH -> 5D -> 5C -> 6C -> 5D -> 6A -> 214A -> 2B -> 6C -> 22BC 214A still seems to ignore proration. d.6A is confirmed to go to 214A. With that said, the later 214A is in the combo, the bigger the ignore proration effect is. So you'd want to rack up as much proration as possible before the 214A. Of course, if 2B -> 6C -> 22BC doesn't work after all that, then the combo is for naught. Edited December 23, 2010 by dragontamer
LunaKage Posted December 23, 2010 Posted December 23, 2010 d.6A also has fatal counter properties according to Hiago's translations, I guess we'll find out soon enough which one is better to use.
GunslingerSonic Posted December 23, 2010 Posted December 23, 2010 d.6A also has fatal counter properties according to Hiago's translations, I guess we'll find out soon enough which one is better to use. On Start-Up?
Klazzix Posted December 23, 2010 Posted December 23, 2010 On Start-Up? It's highly unlikely to bring out a fatal within a combo (e.g. Rachel's J.2C) but if there's a way to do that it'd be madness.
Chiizu Posted December 23, 2010 Posted December 23, 2010 Wouldn't 5C CH > 5D > d.5C > d.6C > d.2D > d.6A > 214A etc be better? That way you can still use d.5D without worrying about fucking repeated move proration thing. Besides, i do think 2D does more damage.
HexaNoid Posted December 23, 2010 Author Posted December 23, 2010 Besides, i do think 2D does more damage. If I recall correctly, 5D does more damage than 2D, but 2D prorates less.
archling Posted December 24, 2010 Posted December 24, 2010 lol haidas are back. 22b dash 6c repeat lolol. 22b and 22c are both dash cancelable now, I think? ez mode
dragontamer Posted December 24, 2010 Posted December 24, 2010 (edited) Video proof please? It sounds too good to be true. EDIT: Nm, found it in the Video thread. Its the new combo video. WTF j.4D in the middle of corner combos ?? Awesome Edited December 24, 2010 by dragontamer
GunslingerSonic Posted December 26, 2010 Posted December 26, 2010 lol haidas are back. 22b dash 6c repeat lolol. 22b and 22c are both dash cancelable now, I think? ez mode Looks like it. [22B>6C]x5 My Question is, does it for Tager only or Everyone? From what I seen on the Noel CS2 Combo vid. I seen Yui pulled it off on Jin and Tager.
SkyKing Posted December 26, 2010 Posted December 26, 2010 Looks like it. [22B>6C]x5 My Question is, does it for Tager only or Everyone? From what I seen on the Noel CS2 Combo vid. I seen Yui pulled it off on Jin and Tager. I think it works on everybody except maybe on the weird ones like Hazama and Tsubaki. Also, the Haida loop with 22B > 6A on the Jin one looked really funny but kind of interesting if it works on the rest of the cast.
GunslingerSonic Posted December 26, 2010 Posted December 26, 2010 They did say 6A can hit low. Right? I didn't expect that low.
Danny Schme Posted December 26, 2010 Posted December 26, 2010 (edited) They did say 6A can hit low. Right? I didn't expect that low. No, it still hits mid. But the hitbox now is able to pick up crouchers in CS2. Edited December 27, 2010 by Danny Schme
SkyKing Posted December 26, 2010 Posted December 26, 2010 I think he meant space-wise, not actually a low hit. In some of those combos, he sometimes used the DC after haida and didn't on others. Makes me wonder what the optimal spacing is to continue the combo after one on each character.
LunaKage Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Moved all of the theory fighting talk to the CS2 changes thread. It makes more sense to have it there than in a thread made for combos.
Atreides Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) [22B > 66C] loop easiest to do on Tager, Bang, Hakumen, Rachel. 214A > [22b 66c] x 10 > 6C(2) > 6C> j.D > 6D > 6B > 5D > 5C > 236D 4788/64 heat [corner] B+C > 22BBBBBBC > 66C > [22B > 66C] x5> 6C(2) > 6C > j.D > 6D > 6B > 5D > 5C > 236D > 4099/ 58 heat j.4D > d.6C > d.2D > d.5D > d.6A > 214A > 2B > 6C > [22B > 66C] x4 > 6C(2) > 6C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5C > 236D 5057/ 59(6202 with distortion) [fatal]j.4D > d.6C > d.2D > d.5D > d.6A > 214A > 2B > 6C > [22B > 66C] x8 > 6C(2) > 6C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5C > 236D 5286/ 72 [fatal] 4D > d.6C > d.2D > d.5D > d.6A > 214A > [22B > 66C] x9 > 6C(2) > 6C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5B > d.5C > 236D 5879 dmg/ 75 heat gain(7057 w/ distortion) 4D > d.6A > d.6C > 214A > 2B > 6C > [22B > 66C] X7 > 6C(2) > 6C > ender 5366/ 63(6554 w/ distortion) 6D > d.6C > d.5D > 236A > 6C(2) > 6C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5C > 236D 4051/ 40 Edited April 3, 2011 by Atreides
Bolverk-GTM Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) Combos From C: 3C > 22BC > 66C > 22B > 66C > 22B > 66A > 6C > 22B > 66C > 22B > 66A > 6C > 22B > 6D > 236A > 6C > sj.D > 6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D - 4,290 I just want to note that while this is clearly a really good damage combo from 3C, PERSONALLY I think the execution demand isn't worth the 200 damage it has over the combo I've been doing. For midscreen or corner to midscreen, I have been doing: 3C > 22BBBBC~66 > 6C > 22B > 66C > 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6B > d.6C > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D - 4,048/41 I'll post a video of it later on today probably, just bear with the low quality because lol PSP. But yeah that combo is a lot easier to do and it only does about 200 damage less than the combo listed by HexaNoid so until you get good at the combo he has listed, this is the ideal one to use from a 3C. Two other things I want to clarify regarding CS2 Noel combos are the following: 1.) Some (if not, all) of you may already know this, but I just want to clarify that in CS2, 22C (and I think 22B because I may have done it by accident before) can be dash cancelled. I know what some of you are thinking right now, "Bolverk that has been in the game since forever. Noel has always been able to do that," and no she has not always been able to do that. In CT and CS1, you could LINK a dash from 22B and 22C, but you could not DASH CANCEL either of them. This is a DELICIOUS buff, but honestly this buff is pure evil to anyone that has played Noel since the beginning. The dash cancel fucks with your timing like you don't even know. I sat down for a good 10 minutes pondering why the heck 6C wouldn't come out after the dash cancel and I learned that you have to delay the 6C just a little bit so that it actually comes out. Just keep in mind that since it's a true dash cancel move now, you have to wait until the dash completes before you input anything else. 2.) Now this one isn't as evident because I don't think anyone currently playing CS2 in arcade or on PSP right now has noted that in her drive combo, j.D > d.6B > d.6C > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D, you slightly delay the d.236D after the d.5C. When you do this, it allows both of Bloom Trigger's hits to connect and it gives you just that little bit of extra damage which is a nice thing. It isn't a very significant amount of extra damage, but hey. Damage is damage, right? Okay I'll keep in check here with more findings that I...find. 214 A > [22b 66c] x 11 > j.D > 6D > 6B > 5C > 5D > 236D ~4688 dmg [corner] B+C > 22BBBBBBC > 66C > 236A > 6C(2) > 6C > j.D > 6D > 6B > 5D > 5C > 236D > distortion 4639 dmg Ooooooo I'll try these out and record them too. They look pretty sexy, but only getting 4.6k in the corner with a distortion ender off of THAT combo? The throw has some freaking mad proration, I don't remember it being that bad before. Also if you get out a 3C in a corner (you must be playing someone pretty dang bad for this to happen), here's a corner combo I just tried out: 3C > 22[bx8]C~66 > 6C(2) > 6C > 236A > 6C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D - 4,601/47 I'll start working on combos that AREN'T off of a wild 3C. It's not my fault everyone just magically starts trying to hit me anywhere BUT low when they know dang well that I will 3C their ass to a corner if they do, but they do it anyways because I guess they're masochist or something. Edited April 2, 2011 by Bolverk-GTM
HexaNoid Posted April 2, 2011 Author Posted April 2, 2011 Thanks for the info, Bolverk. I'll put that combo up there as well. I think I'll change the 'Astral Combos' section into a 'Optimal/Most Practical Combo' section instead, so if you could carry on playing around with stuff to find the best combo to use in certain situations that'd be great. Also for anyone playing, could you note down how much heat these combos are netting us? I know it's not terribly important but it's still somewhat useful to know. Thanks.
SkyKing Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Found one CH combo: CH 2D > d.6C > d.2D > d.5B > d.6A > 214A > 2B > 6C > B+C > 6C > 22B > 22BBBBC > Dash Cancel > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.5D > d.5C > d.6B > 236D (5166; 53 Heat) If you replace the BT with Fenrir = 6205 Damage If you get them to the wall and do BT > Fenrir = 6354 Damage
Bolverk-GTM Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the info, Bolverk. I'll put that combo up there as well. I think I'll change the 'Astral Combos' section into a 'Optimal/Most Practical Combo' section instead, so if you could carry on playing around with stuff to find the best combo to use in certain situations that'd be great. Also for anyone playing, could you note down how much heat these combos are netting us? I know it's not terribly important but it's still somewhat useful to know. Thanks. Way ahead of ya, I updated my last post with the heat gain for each combo and I also corrected both of them. The first should be 22BBBBC and the second 22[bx8]C. Okay so I fidgeted around and the combos posted already that I can do all check out (anything with [22B > 66C]xN is still a no go for me) and then there's MORE I figured out. But first I need to mention that some character specifics need worked on because I noticed that 22B > 66C just does not pick up Noel very often at all. I picked her up like 1 time out of 20 times I tried and I still have no clue how I did it on that one try. I don't know where other characters stand but I know mid-weight cast gets picked up all of the time by it. Anyways so check this out: 1.) Remember 2A > 5B > 5C > 3C? I bet you do. Remember how good it was at punishing crouchers? Yeah I remember that too. Man those CT days. Remember when it sucked in CS1? Yeah I want to forget about that and I DID because it's EVEN BETTER in CS2 than it was in CT. Yeah I'm absolutely not joking, it is good at punishing a crouched opponent once again. Sure the damage output is prorated a bit, but between guaranteed damage off of a safe starter and big damage off of an unsafe starter, I would take guaranteed damage any day. So how do you use it? Easy!: 2A > 5B > 5C > 3C > 22[bxN*]C~66 > 6C > 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D 2920~3010/43 *The number of 22B shots you should use depends on the space between you and the opponent when the combo started. Learn to judge how many you should use. You can do this same thing with just 5B as a starter and the damage proration is nowhere near as bad so take that into consideration. 2.) We all know what 6B is and we all should know when and where to use it by now. As always, this normal can be followed up with the regular combos, but the damage is quite prorated. Just remember what I said about the whole guaranteed damage thing. Now say if you got an opponent low blocking you and you make them eat a 6B, go for this: 6B > 3C > 22BBBBC~66 > 6C > 22B > 66C > 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D - 3,358/43 3.) This next thing I discovered completely by accident during my combo dropping in training mode because I'm such a scrub. I realized that if you are in the middle of a 22B > 66C combo or whatever and you're close to a corner, you can actually just do 66C(2) after a 22B instead of following up the 66C with a 236A. When the 66C(2) connects, the opponent will fly and wallbounce and during this, you have PLENTY of time to dash to the corner and catch them with a 6C > 236A > 66C > (stuff). I can post an example or two later on, but definitely experiment with that little luxury. For anyone curious, I accidentally discovered this during a 22B > 66C combo where I messed up the input for 236A. It went something like "Okay 22B, 66C, 23-ARGH, YOU SCRUB! I wonder if I could dash and HOLY CRAP IT WORKS!" I think I'll do some recording this evening to showcase all of these combos I found just by screwing around. Also something we should make a note of is that 5B has a retarded OTG property to it. I don't know how that works, but whatever, it's there and I bet SOMETHING could become of that. So yeah back to the lab for me. Edited April 2, 2011 by Bolverk-GTM
Bolverk-GTM Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 (edited) Video quality sucks, but RemoteJoy is terrible so deal with it. Here are PLENTY of setups to the BnB I use and also an Astral Combo (which I know people are looking for). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywMjecVfoQ8 3C - 22BBBBC~66 - (stuff) 3C - 22[bx8]C~66 - (corner stuff) 6B - 3C - 22BBBBC~66 - (stuff) 2D - 5D - 6A - 6C - 214A - 2B - (stuff) 2D - 5D - 6A - 6C - 5C - 236A - (stuff) 2A - 5B - 5C - 3C - 22BC~66 - (stuff) j.B - 5B - 5C - 3C - 22BBBC~66 - (stuff) 5A - 5A - 6A - (stuff) Astral Combo (corner only): 3C - 22BBBBC~66 - 6C - 22B - 66C - 236A - 66C(2) - 214214C 4/4 UPDATE: I'm dicking around in training mode instead of doing my homework. Living like a family man. Anyways so this is what I found for another midscreen combo (tested on Ragna, as always): 3C > 22BBBBC~66 > 6C > 22B > 66C > 22B > 66A > 6C > B+C > 6C > 22B > 66C > 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > 236D - 4,428/50 Edited April 4, 2011 by Bolverk-GTM
Atreides Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 Can't get my remotejoylite to work, or else I would record these. It works in the XMB but not in game for some reason. 22B 66C loops is easiest on tager obviously, then haku/valk/bang/kune. Anything more than 4-5 loops is hard to get right on the rest of the cast. [damage/ heat gain] j.D reload (5A) > 6A > 6C > j.D > 2B > 6C > [22B > 66C]x4 > 5D > 6B > 5D > 5C > 236D (2693/ 40) [2901/ 41] 6A > 6C > 236A > 6C > j.D > 2B > 6C > [22B > 66C]x2 > 5D > 6B > 5D > 5C > 236D [2724/ 39] 2B > 6A > 6C > j.D > 2B > 6C > [22B > 66C]x4 > 5D > 6B > 5D > 5C > 236D [2949/ 42] 236A 6B > 3C > 22BBC > DC > 6C > 236A > 6C > 6C(2) > 6C > ender [3142/ 42] 2B > 6A > 6C > 236A > 6C > j.D > 2B > 6C 22B > 66C > 5D > 6B > 5D > 5C > 236D [2676/ 38] CH 2C > 3C > 22BBC > DC > 6C > 236A > 6C(2) > 6C > ender [3754/ 43] CH 5C > 3C > 22BBBC > DC > 6C > 236A > 6C(2) > 6C > ender [4023/ 43] 3C > 22BBC > 66C > 236A > 6C(2) > 6C > ender [3690/ 39] 2D > 5D > 5C > 6C > 214A > 2B > 6C > 236A > 6C > j.D > 6D > 6B > 5C > 236D [4362/ 43] 5D > 5B > 5C > 6C > 214A > 2B > 6C > 22B > 66C > 236A > ender [4391/ 46] air throw > 2B > 6C > 236A > 66C > ender [2924/ 34] 22B 66C loop 6B > 3C > 22BBC > DC > 6C > [22B > 66C]x7 > 6C(2) > 6C > ender [3770/ 56] 2B > 6A > 6C > 236A > 6C > j.D > 2B > 6C 22B > 66C > 5D > 6B > 5D > 5C > 236D [2676/ 38] 5B > 2B > 6A > 6C(2) > 6C > 236A 6C > ender [3458/ 38] CH 2C > 3C > 22BBC > DC > 6C > [22B > 66C]x8 > 6C(2) > 6C > ender [4716/ 63] CH 5C > 3C > 22BBBC > DC > 6C > [22B > 66C]x8 > 6C(2) > 6C > ender [4896/ 62] 3C > 22BBC > 66C > [22B > 66C]x10 > 6C(2) > 6C > ender [4880/ 63] CH 5D > 6C > 2D > 5D > 6A > 214A > 2B > 6C [22B > 66C]x4 > 6C > j.D > 6D > 6B > 5C > 236D [5010/ 52] 5D > 5C > 6C > 214A > 2B > 6C > [22B > 66C]x6 > ender[4926/ 56] CH 2D > 6C > 2D > 5D > 6A > 214A > 2B > 6C > [22B > 66C]x5 > 6C > j.D > 6D > 6B > 5C > 236D [5294/ 56] 2D > 5D > 5C > 6C > 214A > 2B > 6C > [22B > 66C]x5 > 6C > j.D > 6D > 6B > 5C > 236D [4906 / 54] air throw > 2B > 6C > [22B > 66C]x5 > 6C(2) > 6C > ender [3708 / 50]
Bolverk-GTM Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) I can tell what is what on each of these combos, but the next guy might be a newcomer that can't differentiate between what should be a normal 6B and what should be a drive 6B (d.6B). You should probably make a note of what's a regular normal and what's a drive normal when you post combos. Also I recorded 3 basic haida combos tested on Ragna and uploaded the video. BBCS2 Noel Simple Haidas The first two combos are ones I already posted in this thread, but I haven't posted the third before. 6C > 22B > [66C > 22B]x3 > 66C > ender - 4,673/54 (as tested with corner ender) 4/11 Update: 2D > d.5C > d.2D > d.6A > d.6C > 214A > 2B > 6C > B+C(whiff) > 6C > [22B > 66C]x4 > j.D > ender - 4,982/57 Edited April 11, 2011 by Bolverk-GTM
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