Mizzet Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 Ah, thanks for reminding me we can haida off everything now, seeing 4.8k now. I do tend to prefer Starter > d.5C > d.2D > d.6A > d.6C > 214A though, d.5C d.6C has a tendency to not connect if done from max range, and the difference in damage is generally <100 over the entire combo. Any 4d not done absolutely point blank for example the combo will break between d.5C and d.6C. Not as much of an issue with 5d and 2d since they push you toward the opponent to begin with, but if done from max range it does still happen.
LunaKage Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 Cool, may need to test that version out, I mean everything is still there, just switched around.
Ichipoo Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 I do tend to prefer Starter > d.5C > d.2D > d.6A > d.6C > 214A though, d.5C d.6C has a tendency to not connect if done from max range, and the difference in damage is generally <100 over the entire combo. Any 4d not done absolutely point blank for example the combo will break between d.5C and d.6C. Not as much of an issue with 5d and 2d since they push you toward the opponent to begin with, but if done from max range it does still happen.That's the exact sequence for 99% of my Drive combos as well but only because I find d.6C > 214A much more easier to perform than d.6A > 214A. What I'm curious about though is does modifying the order of the combo affects it negatively in any way?
SkyKing Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 That's the exact sequence for 99% of my Drive combos as well but only because I find d.6C > 214A much more easier to perform than d.6A > 214A. What I'm curious about though is does modifying the order of the combo affects it negatively in any way? You'll have to worry about proration kicking in in the order that you do the combo. You generally want to have less proration at the very beginning so that you can add more hits, and by that token more damage without affecting the untech time much so that the entire combo redbeats.
Ichipoo Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 You'll have to worry about proration kicking in in the order that you do the combo. You generally want to have less proration at the very beginning so that you can add more hits, and by that token more damage without affecting the untech time much so that the entire combo redbeats.Thank you. I guess that would explain why 6C > BC > 6C wasn't working most of the time eh?
SkyKing Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 Thank you. I guess that would explain why 6C > BC > 6C wasn't working most of the time eh? In this case, I found that you may have to do the subsequent 6Cs fast that you would think. I've seen and done combos that have 3 6Cs in a row, so it could be a combination of proration and execution.
Mizzet Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 Seems like they went more lenient on proration from counterhits too, you can generally get a full drive combo off any counterhit, though you may need to omit the 6c 236a 66c bit as it's very finicky. CH 5C > 5d/2d ok CH 6c > 5d/2d ok CH 5b > 2d (is this new in CS2?) CH 2c > 2d All should get you 4-4.5k+ comfortably.
SkyKing Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 Seems like they went more lenient on proration from counterhits too, you can generally get a full drive combo off any counterhit, though you may need to omit the 6c 236a 66c bit as it's very finicky. CH 5C > 5d/2d ok CH 6c > 5d/2d ok CH 5b > 2d (is this new in CS2?) CH 2c > 2d All should get you 4-4.5k+ comfortably. 5B's level got increased, so you can think of it as CS1's 5C. It should work the same since.
kiunch Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 I found that for corner 3C combo, this is easier to do, tested on Litchi/Noel/Ragnar: 3C, 22BBBBBBBC ~66C(2), 6C(hit mid body), 4D, d.6C, d.2D, 623D, 6C, j.D(small jump), d.5B, d.5D, d.5C, 236D (4886)(6074 with super) After j.D I feel that d.5B is easier to land than d.6B, d.6B always whiff for me.
SkyKing Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) I found that for corner 3C combo, this is easier to do, tested on Litchi/Noel/Ragnar: 3C, 22BBBBBBBC ~66C(2), 6C(hit mid body), 4D, d.6C, d.2D, 623D, 6C, j.D(small jump), d.5B, d.5D, d.5C, 236D (4886)(6074 with super) After j.D I feel that d.5B is easier to land than d.6B, d.6B always whiff for me. For this combo, you can replace the j.D(normal jump) > d.5B into this: super jump j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > 236D (5182)(6384 with Fenrir) EDIT: All the damage depends on the amount of 22B's you do, but generally I've gotten around the damage that I listed. Edited May 24, 2011 by SkyKing
Mizzet Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 FC property as before allows you to connect d.5C > 214a, saving you the need to use d.6A which has weaker damage and proration, some simple examples, FC 4D, d.6C, d.2D, d.5D, d.5C, 214a, 2b, 6c, 236a, 66c, j.D, d.6D, d.6B, d.236D [4927] Midscreen ok, haida shenanigans will push you over 5k. Same thing for j.4D, FC j.4D, d.6C, d.2D, d.5C, 214a, 2b, 6c, 236a, 66c, j.D, d.6D, d.6B, d.236d [4480] Midscreen ok.
LunaKage Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 FC property as before allows you to connect d.5C > 214a, saving you the need to use d.6A which has weaker damage and proration, some simple examples, FC 4D, d.6C, d.2D, d.5D, d.5C, 214a, 2b, 6c, 236a, 66c, j.D, d.6D, d.6B, d.236D [4927] Midscreen ok, haida shenanigans will push you over 5k. Same thing for j.4D, FC j.4D, d.6C, d.2D, d.5C, 214a, 2b, 6c, 236a, 66c, j.D, d.6D, d.6B, d.236d [4480] Midscreen ok. d.6A isn't all that bad anymore Miz. My fatal combo: 4D(FC) > d.6C > d.2D > d.5B > d.6A > 214A > 2B > 6C > BC > 6C > 22B > 22BC~66 > 6C > 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > 236D (5.1k) Also, this just in: We can get a full combo off of CH crouching RB without Rapid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osnb3ILTyzc
MiraclePizza Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 Consolidating the recent stuff I posted. I think the optimal combo and combo theory for the new 66C 22B x n loops have been posted already so I'm gonna stick to some of the simpler/universal stuff. Hopefully they are as optimized as they can be. Corner d.6B starter: d.6B d.6A d.6C SR 6C(2) [6C B+C]x3 236A 6C j.D d.6D d.5D d.5C d.5B Bloom - 3431/49 - delay the d.5B to make both hits connect d.6B d.6A d.6C SR 66C 4D Bloom 6C(2) 6C 236A 6C j.D d.6D d.5D d.5C d.5B Bloom - 3495/54 - delay the d.5B to make both hits connect - this one induces repeat proration from BT but you can't get double Fenrir at the end of the other d.6B combo anyways Corner 5A/6A starter: (5A) 6A 6C(2) 6C d.4D d.6C SR 6C B+C 6C 236A 6C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5D d.5C Bloom - 3414/50 Midscreen throw RC: Throw RC 2D d.5C d.6C d.2D d.6A 214A 2B 6C B+C 6C 22B 22BC DC 6C 236A 6C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5D d.5C Bloom - 4630/-50+45 - pretty much the same drive combo Midscreen 5C CH starter into drive: 5C CH 5D d.6A d.6C 214A 2B 6C B+C 6C 22B 22BC DC 6C 236A 6C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5D d.5C Bloom - 4343/51 5C CH 2D d.5C d.6C d.6A 214A 2B 6C B+C 6C 22B 22BC DC 6C 236A 6C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5D d.5C Bloom - 4529/54 Midscreen 4D Fatal: 4D d.6C d.2D d.5B d.5C 214A 2B 6C B+C 6C 22B 22BBC 66 6C 236A 6C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5D d.5C Bloom - 5306/57 - 4D always forces standing so it's nice that it'll always let you combo into 214A Midscreen j.4D Fatal: j.4D d.6C d.2D d.5B d.5C 214A 2B 6C B+C 6C 22B 22BBC 66 6C 236A 6C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5D d.5C Bloom - 4823/56 - j.4D combos into d.6C even on normal hit so this can be pretty conveient for an autoconfirm - standing only j.4D d.6C d.2D d.5C 236A 66C j.D Reload 2B 6C B+C 6C 22B 22BC 66 6C 5D d.6B d.5D d.5C Bloom - 3927/48 - sorry, this is the best I could come up with on crouching opponents Again, my bad if some of this stuff's been posted already but I'm mostly going by what I see on the front page.
MiraclePizza Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 Oh one little extra thing: The cutoff point for double Fenrir in the corner off of non-fatal is around 12.95% combo proration, or when the second hit of the Bloom Trigger ender does 123 damage. Double Fenrir will fail when it hits for 121 damage. With fatal it is 12.74%/121 and will fail at 120 so FC pretty much doesn't make a difference it seems. This isn't 100% accurate because you may get a slightly different number of hits from the Fenrir bullets but is a rough estimate and a general guideline for when you can safely end with 2 supers without killing yourself because they teched out of the middle of the second super.
Mizzet Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 I like how they increased the number of bullets you get from ground Fenrir, at least you get a decent bit of damage (almost 2k) if someone does something stupid on the other end of a screen and you want to just tag them with the bullets. It also tracks better if you use it to follow up Thor, instead of where in CS1 you would just get a short stream of bullets which would briefly clip the guy.
Tae Seong Kim Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 j.D 22b j.D 22b xN Would be amazing and so troll 3: TSK did you come back to Noel or are you still a Soviet bro? Yeah, I defected from the Soviets with their non-jump cancellable 6As, to join the I <3 flat chest + zettai ryouiki regime! Science has failed me!
LunaKage Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 Yeah, I defected from the Soviets with their non-jump cancellable 6As, to join the I <3 flat chest + zettai ryouiki regime! Science has failed me! Yay tier whoring! I mean... how bout dem combos guys? *Srs though keep the discussion about combos, TSK, feel free to post in NVG about anything and become one of us*
Tae Seong Kim Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 Yay tier whoring! I mean... how bout dem combos guys? *Srs though keep the discussion about combos, TSK, feel free to post in NVG about anything and become one of us* Hehe, my bad. Actually, I would like to share this though: Corner: (CH) 6C(2) > 6C > 4D > D.6C > D.2D > 623D > 6C(B+C) x3 > j.D > D.6D > D.6B > D.5D > D.5C > Bloom Trigger > 6C > Fenrir > Fenrir Easy, simple combo, no haida required. Counter hit 6C starter will cause stagger and automatically combo into the second hit of 6C. 53 hits 7687 damage Need 51% of meter at the start of the combo to have enough at the end for the 2nd Distortion. Use as a punish combo.
HexaNoid Posted May 24, 2011 Author Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) Taking parts of what Luna and Mizzet discussed in terms of FCs, I've found the most damaging midscreen combo so far: 4D(FC) > d.6C > d.2D > d.5B > d.5C > 214A > 2B > 6C > 22B > 22BBBC~66 > 6C > 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.236D - 5,381 Even though d.6A is nowhere near as bad as it used to be, d.5C is still obviously superior. Combined with the combo that Luna was doing and we've optimised the combo (for now). Also for Chiizu and anyone else who love their CH C moves into drive combos, you're looking at just short of 5k if you do the right combo: CH 6/5C > 2D > d.5C > d.6C > d.2D > d.6A > 214A > 22B > 22BBBC~66 > 6C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.236D Does 4,980 off of 6C and 4,800 off of 5C. Remember to NOT use OpticA in this combo, as it'll make you drop the combo more often than not. Edited May 24, 2011 by HexaNoid
Klazzix Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 Regarding FC combos, you can add a d.5A before BT for a little more damage. Also a better midscreen ender for those combos that didn't use d.6C: e.g. 5B 5C RC 6A 6C 236A 66C sj.D d.6B d.5C d.6C d.5D BT Or just j.D reload 5D etc.
DC Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 I like how they increased the number of bullets you get from ground Fenrir, at least you get a decent bit of damage (almost 2k) if someone does something stupid on the other end of a screen and you want to just tag them with the bullets. It also tracks better if you use it to follow up Thor, instead of where in CS1 you would just get a short stream of bullets which would briefly clip the guy. I'm pretty sure they did that solely for following up after Thor. I wish there was someway to use Fenrir missle by itself, maybe for like 100 meter or something lol. Shit almost does 5k alone and I'm sure it can hit 10k in the corner like Thor can (supposedly)
HexaNoid Posted May 24, 2011 Author Posted May 24, 2011 Adding d.6A also adds a tiny bit of extra damage, but a few of us who were working on the FCs decided it wasn't really worth it since it gives the opponent a greater chance of teching. Also, an even better ender for those combos would be: XXXX > j.D > d.6B > d.6C > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D Since d.5C's untech time is godly it prevents your opponent from teching out where combos that end in d.5D > d.236D might allow them too. It should be noted that those particular enders do not work on Lambda however (your one sort of those, but the timing required is iffy and not really worth it for the damage increase it gives).
Klazzix Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Also, an even better ender for those combos would be: XXXX > j.D > d.6B > d.6C > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D I've been having problems getting this to work on Makoto, is there a timing to it?
SkyKing Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I've been having problems getting this to work on Makoto, is there a timing to it? If it's the d.5D > d.5C part, then you have to delay them just a bit. This is universal for everyone.
Klazzix Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 If it's the d.5D > d.5C part, then you have to delay them just a bit. This is universal for everyone. No, no. It's the d.5D not hitting if you don't delay d.6C. Got it to work already so thanks. ^_^
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