Q&A about Joystick Building, Parts, and Purchasing

[TheBluePylon]

I'm considering an Arcade Stick for BBCP because of the fact that on the D-Pad on the PS3 if you hold down one direction, let's say left, and push it either up or down then it'll also make whoever I play jump/crouch which is really annoying and causes a lot of deaths. I feel as though I hold down my buttons pretty hard because I'm afraid of accidentally letting go of block under pressure but then I accidentally jump and it doesn't even matter because certain attacks are unblockable in the air or I get overheaded.

The other reason for wanting an Arcade Stick is because of Nu in BBCP's new 22A. Doing 22A on the D-Pad can be tiresome and hurts my thumb every now and then (That + QCFs are starting to make my thumb develop a callus..) So I tried doing 22A on the PS3 Joystick, but the thing is the stick has too much tension that when the analog stick is let go from the down position, it flicks up and registers a jump, thereby interrupting my movements with 282 instead of 22 (Or maybe it's not enough tension, I'm new at this but read the components guide for a joystick).

So with that being said I have two questions. Should I buy a prebuilt stick from say Hori or another known company or find parts and make them myself? With both of these of course comes pros and cons but I want to know how big the cons are. In particular the thing I want most from the stick is enough tension to prevent that 22 issue and let me flick the stick in any direction and have it bounce back to neutral with out activating any other direction, start and select buttons away from the panel (most preferably behind the joystick) and a ball top joystick with circular restrictions. I guess with the 22 in mind that a stick with short actuation distance would be a good idea for double tapping directions.

Buying a prebuilt comes with the fact that I don't have to build anything and worry about it being destroyed and it's already plug and play compared to build and play but comes with the issue that some of them are not dual modded for PS3/Xbox360. Another thing is that because I don't have much experience with fight sticks, I won't know what in terms of specific dimensions, button types and joystick feeling. With that said any type of button and joystick movement is fine and makes a lot of prebuilt sticks viable for me as I'll just adjust to the size and feeling of it.

Now with all that information (I know it's a lot), what are your recommendations? The first arcade stick I was thinking of buying that was prebuilt was probably the Hori Fighting Edge because it looks pretty big for my lap which would make it pretty comfortable, the start button is pretty far off and small (Heck it can even be disabled during play), lots of room for my fat ass hand to move around on but the only issue is of course not knowing how the stick handles and it's one console only (Either PS3 or Xbox 360 not both).

Edited November 1, 2013 by TheBluePylon

[blackraen]

I'm considering an Arcade Stick...

Very good idea. As a fellow Nu player, the 22A move is not a problem for me on any of my arcade sticks. I can imagine that given enough time you'll get the hang of it on the d-pad too though. The bounce-back issue that you mention isn't a problem with proper stick technique regardless of what lever you're using, but neutral return can be adjusted by using stiffer springs as necessary.

First, price...

Be prepared to spend money. If you were to go out and buy JUST quality joystick (the actual lever) and buttons, you're looking at about 60$. Throw a PCB (controller board) in and you're anywhere from 90 to 120$ (PS3/PC Cerberus for as little as $30, or a PS360+ board for 60$). You want to go quality, do not go cheap for a stick, it will be a bad experience and quite possibly a waste of money since you won't enjoy using it and you'll drop it for the familiarity of the pad.

Prebuilt or Self-build

The biggest determining factor here is your comfort level with wiring, electronics, and woodworking. If you've got a strong understanding of all three, a self built stick is AWESOME!

I hand built this stick. Poplar case, wired it up myself with a cerberus + a MadCatz 360 fightpad for dual-mod, even stuck a FGW LED controller in for button lighting. Seimitsu buttons, JLF stick, all done specifically to my taste. The weight, feel, sound, and look all as I wanted it.

That said, this project probably ran me about $250 all told in terms of boards, parts, odds and ends, paint, etc. I love it but it was a week of hard work, and I had previous experience with all of that.

If you aren't an eletronics guy with a woodshop and tools, go prebuilt commercial

The prices really are right, even though they might seem high. A MadCatz TE (Current release is the MLG branded stick, runs ~150$, but specials all the time for 99$) is a good baseline. They're common sticks, come fitted with Sanwa parts, and the modding community has plenty of experience with them and can support them.

I always come down to recommending either a MadCatz TE (the MLG branded ones are what's currently available), or a Hori RAP Kai (HRAP V3 SA Kai for PS3, or a HRAP VX SA Kai for Xbox360). One of those is typically going to be your best starting point. I used one of each (HRAP V3 SA, predecessor to the Kai) before I started doing my own building.

Qanba sticks are lower price, and people in the community have had varying experiences with them, from good to poor.

If you've got the electronics mojo down but don't want to do woodworking, there are case builds out there and you could then fit it with parts as you desire, but at this stage you probably don't have enough familiarity with parts to need or want to customize).

Buying a stick really would be recommended for a first timer.

There is a great thread on SRK Techtalk on this topic too, if you're looking for some verbage about what's out there and to help you decide, check this out. Darksakul's initial post contains a large amount of breakdown for first-time stick buyers, both in terms of what you're looking at and how you should think about, as well as specific information about the different sticks out there:

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/137321/what-stick-controller-should-i-buy-read-the-guide-on-pg-1-before-posting/p1

Ultimately, stick is a great experience, but if you can't afford a quality product, I'd recommend waiting until you can, it's worth it.

Edited November 1, 2013 by blackraen

[TheBluePylon]

I have the skills, especially soldering, but no wood to work with and no soldering iron or the necessary tools in general. I also like the idea of a plastic case more than I do wood, though I guess the weight of the wood would be interesting. I also have no painting skills but I guess I could just put masking tape above the areas I don't want painted.

I also am a first timer and would generally be more on the prebuilt side. I'm hoping to go check out those sticks and see what I like. More suggestions are welcomed but thanks for the quick reply! :D

[00Bubbles00]

Is there any online store where I can find something like a pre-made button dongle (external buttons connected to stick box with wire) for something like the "PS" button? I have a arcade stick with a metal box, but I don't want to cut holes into it to add buttons/switches. Thanks.

[Tigre]

You could wire Everything up through a project box, and add the PS button there. probably the best way to add buttons without drilling holes.

Or replace the PCB currently in the stick with one that supports Start+Select=Home like the PS360+, or the Cthulhu.

[blackraen]

I have the skills, especially soldering, but no wood to work with and no soldering iron or the necessary tools in general. I also like the idea of a plastic case more than I do wood, though I guess the weight of the wood would be interesting. I also have no painting skills but I guess I could just put masking tape above the areas I don't want painted.

I also am a first timer and would generally be more on the prebuilt side. I'm hoping to go check out those sticks and see what I like. More suggestions are welcomed but thanks for the quick reply! :D

If you're thinking of plastic, meaning leaning towards a lighter stick then I would really recommend the Hori Real Arcade Pro V3 SA Kai. It's a great starter stick. The Fighting Edge is a much bigger, beastlier thing, and it is harder to mod due to the touch screen. It also uses some custom Hori components so it kind of deviates from the standard.

Is there any online store where I can find something like a pre-made button dongle (external buttons connected to stick box with wire) for something like the "PS" button? I have a arcade stick with a metal box, but I don't want to cut holes into it to add buttons/switches. Thanks.

Are you talking about the Arc 25th anniversary stick? I've been thinking about this too. Instead of adding a button some where, or replacing the PCB, I'm working out a small board design that I can build up on perf board that will gate out start and select so that if you press them both it will activate as home.

In the meantime I actually just have a 24mm button in the cable compartment that I hooked up to the PCB in the meantime.

[Tigre]

Are you talking about the Arc 25th anniversary stick? I've been thinking about this too. Instead of adding a button some where, or replacing the PCB, I'm working out a small board design that I can build up on perf board that will gate out start and select so that if you press them both it will activate as home.

An AND Gate? There's not really much you need to "build up", you can just throw a single chip in there like a 7408 (Which is overkill for this as you don't need to work with that many gates but it's all I can remember right now). No sense in re-inventing the wheel...

I'm in favor of replacing the PCB in there. I've had 2 for 2 Exar PCBs die on me

<edit> I fucked up it's an AND gate and I'm illterate. I also added the right IC. My bad

Edited November 2, 2013 by Tigre
I'm dumb.

[blackraen]

An OR Gate? There's not really much you need to "build up", you can just throw a single chip in there like a 4071 (Which is overkill for this as you don't need to work with that many gates but it's all I can remember right now). No sense in re-inventing the wheel...

I'm in favor of replacing the PCB in there. I've had 2 for 2 Exar PCBs die on me

Unfortunately my electronics design ability ends as "soldering wires to existing PCBs" so I'm not sure how to build that out. Was going to be my "lets learn some stuff" project. The other benefit is that it's a lot cheaper than buying a new PCB for a non-primary stick.

I guess the thing about the "OR" gate I'm not understanding is how you could use that to detect both ST and SEL to generate a 3rd signal, AND have a ST==true + SEL==true condition generate a 0 for those individual wires using that chip. The reason why an OR gate sounds wrong is that you get a True for A, B, or A and B. Not seeing how that can generate the desired results.

Edited November 2, 2013 by blackraen

[Tigre]

Understandable, You can get a 7408 for less than a dollar (Try in the range of 50 cents). If you want to learn how it works just check out the wiki article for AND Gate

This is definitely the cheapest way to add the Home function to the Arcsys stick. There are some nice benefits swapping the PCB, but if cheap is what you want you this is what you want to do.

<edit> I'm dumb. It's an AND Gate lol. Just woke up :v

Edited November 2, 2013 by Tigre

[00Bubbles00]

Are you talking about the Arc 25th anniversary stick? I've been thinking about this too. Instead of adding a button some where, or replacing the PCB, I'm working out a small board design that I can build up on perf board that will gate out start and select so that if you press them both it will activate as home.

In the meantime I actually just have a 24mm button in the cable compartment that I hooked up to the PCB in the meantime.

Yes, I got the 25th anniversary stick too. I can do some light electrical work, but I'm no good with fabricating nice looking stuff. I was hoping I can just buy a nice looking external button instead of something from the hardware store.

Does the stock PCB in this stick actually have a separate, unused input for a home/ps button?

Ultimately I think I will change out the PCB if I need to get it to work with the PS4.

[00Bubbles00]

Thanks for the info. My ARC stick isn't my main stick so I will cheap out for now. Maybe i will just get a button (like a really small one) for the PS button that can be shoved into the cable compartment. I'm assuming there is a hole somewhere in there that is open to the inside of the case.

[blackraen]

I'm assuming there is a hole somewhere in there that is open to the inside of the case.

Yep, those slots right there make it pretty easy to route stuff in/out of the case.

[TheBluePylon]

So I tried looking for the sticks you mentioned Raen but all of the Hori ones are sold out from the official US Site and I don't know of where else to get those sticks. I'm willing to fork over $200 at most but nothing more (Unless it's really enticing..), so that means that the Mad Cat TE MLG edition, priced at $400, is a no go. I want one of the Hori sticks but I have no idea of a good place to buy from (preferably accepts paypal).

Edit: Nvm, getting a fightstick from NCIX :D, Ordered the Hori RAP V3 SA KAI.

Edited November 3, 2013 by TheBluePylon

[blackraen]

So I tried looking for the sticks you mentioned Raen but all of the Hori ones are sold out from the official US Site and I don't know of where else to get those sticks. I'm willing to fork over $200 at most but nothing more (Unless it's really enticing..), so that means that the Mad Cat TE MLG edition, priced at $400, is a no go. I want one of the Hori sticks but I have no idea of a good place to buy from (preferably accepts paypal).

Edit: Nvm, getting a fightstick from NCIX :D, Ordered the Hori RAP V3 SA KAI.

Yeah commercial stick shouldn't really be over $200 and I suggested either the Kai or a TE MLG because they're supposed to be in the 150 - 100 range. What place was trying to sell a MLG TE for $400? That's ridiculous. They're available on Microsoft's site for 99$ right now (xbox version anyways).

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Mad-Catz-MLG-Arcade-FightStick-Tournament-Edition/productID.253767700

Kai is a good stick though, you'll like it, and if you want to look at modding later, the community will definitely be able to help you out.

[Raiser]

hey guys, kinda new on the whole fighting thing, been playing BBCSEX, already ordered my BBCP, it should arrive in 20 days ish~( pre ordered =)).

that being said i wanted to buy a stick (play asia), wanted to spend around 85ish USD, saw the exaprize full sanwa edition and it got me interested, wanted to know your opinions and what would be best to get. options are (till now)

-Exaprize USB sanwa stick for PS3 (List price:US$ 129.90) Price with discount + coupon: US$ 79.90

-XCM Rumble stick (list price:US$ 89.90) Price with discount + discount coupon: US$ 64.99 +shipping

-XCM Dominator stick (Price: US$ 69.90) 64.90 with discount coupon +shipping

quick edit. shipping is a whooping 80 dollars wooot, any ideas where to buy and get less shipping fee?

another edit, what i can get locally is a Street Fight PC/PS2/PS3 stick, not sure how good that is at around 70 dollars

http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-476259886-joysticks-palanca-arcade-street-fighter-iv-para-ps3-ps2-pc-_JM

Edited November 5, 2013 by Raiser

[Airk]

We'd have better luck recommending how to get your hands on a stick for low shipping if you told us what country you live in. :P Are you actually in Argentina as that link suggests?

[Raiser]

oh yes, indeed i am in argentina, i forgot to mention .

i checked ami ami i think their shippings for 2kgs went for around 5000 Y, meaning it would be around 50 ish the shipping, but a 30 day shipping costing 50 dollars seems like a lot to me :/

[blackraen]

oh yes, indeed i am in argentina, i forgot to mention .

i checked ami ami i think their shippings for 2kgs went for around 5000 Y, meaning it would be around 50 ish the shipping, but a 30 day shipping costing 50 dollars seems like a lot to me :/

It a lot but that is also the standard. It actually cost me 85$ for EMS on my Arc25th stick to the US.

If you're trying to go arcade stick on a budget, it's pretty hard in South America. Most shipping will be expensive, many countries also have pretty hefty import taxes as well which is why the domestically sold items will be so expensive.

The thing about arcade sticks is that if you try to scrimp and go too budget, you'll get a stick that will have any combination of (1) cheap knock-off buttons/joysticks that will break quickly or perform unreliably, (2) a poorly constructed case enclosure that either flexes, breaks easily, is non-standard (meaning parts can't be replaced), and/or (3) low quality electronics that do not have appropriately compatible designs causing them to not perform reliably or predictably.

In the end, while for most people I discourage the idea of complete stick building as their first endevour, you MIGHT come out cheaper, and with a good quality stick, if you imported just parts and built the case yourself, if that's in your capability.

Ultimately, if you're looking for too cheap of a stick and the shipping is too high, you would be better off waiting/saving. Don't push it and get a compromise/low quality stick. It will be a bad experience and you probably won't stick with it, and will just go back to pad, making it a waste of money.

I wish there were better shipping options for South America though. I deal with SA shipping logistics sometimes at workand sometimes we just have to let things rot down there because it costs less to abandon equipment and buy something new domestically than to bring it back up.

[Tigre]

I know i've asked at least two people about the situation of buying vs building in south american countries, in quite a few situations it was just as expensive/cheaper to get a stick built compared to buying a retail one/importing a retail one. I don't know your exact situation though- ask around your community and see how it is where you are located.

As far as avoiding a custom stick for your first stick, I don't know that I agree with that. The end result is the exact same if they have someone wire it up against a custom stick.

[blackraen]

As far as avoiding a custom stick for your first stick, I don't know that I agree with that. The end result is the exact same if they have someone wire it up against a custom stick.

Specific recommendation was meant in terms of personally building your first stick without prior experience. If he can find someone in his local community that can build a case, and wire if necessary, then that's obviously a good solution. Especially considering how annoying shipping/import is to South America.

[Raiser]

hey guys, there are some custom sticks around here, the prices range from 120ish to 170 USD, i have no idea what parts they're using but they im pretty sure not sanwa ones since stick+6 sanwa buttons are around 130~140 USD.

i think im gonna save around 150~200 dollars and import a nice one, what are your opinions on the street fighter one? i want one at least temporary until i can get a better one

[00Bubbles00]

Has anyone had the chance to test arcade sticks on the PS4? Shipping is late and I won't get mine until Monday =(

[Delrian]

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/185242/playstation-4-and-ps3-arcade-stick-compatibility

Official words are it's up to the developer to support older hardware for their games. Buuut they don't seem to work in the PS4 menus...

[blackraen]

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/185242/playstation-4-and-ps3-arcade-stick-compatibility

Official words are it's up to the developer to support older hardware for their games. Buuut they don't seem to work in the PS4 menus...

In the end though Developers didn't even know that was a possibility (and some are kind of doubting it) so it's pretty safe to say that this point that your PS3 compatible arcade stick will not be PS4 compatible.

That said, the DS4 is surprisingly common-ground so this means that modding an existing stick using a DS4 PCB should be a possibility. I haven't looked at doing this yet since there's no 2D fighters for the PS4 yet, but once yatagarasu comes out I was going to see about sticking a DS4 board in one of my TEs.

[Raiser]

hey guys, a little update on my search for a stick.

i ordered one from amazon a few days ago, but when it arrived customs wouldnt let it throught(wasted about 70 dollars), so all i have left now is pray some local company can get stock of some and buy it there... T_T