CryoChill Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 What moves of Makoto's have the best priority? The computer keeps wrecking me because I can't counter them and I'm not good enough with her parry to use it reliably. Shit even her 5A is getting out done by fucking Bang. Is it just the computer or is she actually a lot slower than I thought she was?
Ronove Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) "Priority" isn't exactly a an exact term to use, in my opinion. What you're looking for is for moves that have a good hitbox and come out fast enough in order to help you getting in. on ground it's her 2A from close range, and 5B as a poke. On air it's her j.A and her j.B. If you get countered it only means that you need to learn to play footsies and improve your fundamentals, just being near the opponent and pressing a button doesn't mean you will automatically hit and get in, other characters have moves as fast and as reliable as Makoto's pokes. You need to learn to efficiently move on ground and "sense" the moment when you can catch the opponent with your pokes before they do anything. Only by playing and praticing you'll gradually learn when you can dash in and hit 2A and when likely you're going to trade with something or get CH'd. Besides, I don't think she's slow at all. Her dash 2A is pretty much amazing. Edited June 8, 2011 by Ronove
HIGEKING42 Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 you could also use 5c as a decent poke but it might be dangerous. don't try to 5b dash in 5b against noel all the time because they might 3c it and then you'll lose roughly 5k+.
CryoChill Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 Poke. That was the word I was looking for. I'll try her 2C some more. It's just a pain defending till they have a huge opening then watching the computer counter it flawlessly with their slowest moves.... *sigh*
Nini Heart Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 The computer is designed around beating your button presses though.
excelence Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 @CryoChill : If u fight against hell ai ... what Nini said, don't bother to do any mix up/slow moves if there's no opening or guaranteed hit, just fight them head on with 2a
rurouni572 Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Question about her j.B. I see everywhere that "it's amazing" but I can't seem to hit crouching opponents with it. Is it just that it recovers really quickly?
Ronove Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 j.B isn't exactly supposed to be a jump-in tool, though on certain characters it might still hit them. Her j.B is regarded as amazing as an anti-air move because it comes out fast, has a good hitbox and on CH it can lead to really good combos+corner carry. If you're looking for an aerial move to hit crouchers just use her j.C©
excelence Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 For Crouching u better off with j.cc ... but j.b should also works, the things that makes it amazing is... mid air CH j.b, that could lead to 6k anywhere on the screen
rurouni572 Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Ah, I see. Boy, time to learn another combo T_T. I got a generic corner combo, midscreen combo, and I'm working on the midscreen PF combo. Now I have to find a CH j.b combo >_<.
excelence Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Mid air ch.j.b combos isn't much different than your generic combos, most of the time u can just follow it with 662c/just 2c blablala
EiseneFaust Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 [Posted 5-15-2001] I'm considering making the new combo thread based on what is in this video and some of the combos posted here and in my notepad. Keeping the combos within practical range of course. I'm really looking forward to this when you have some time to post the notations. I've recently decided to start playing BBCS again after taking a few months off and Makoto seems like a lot of fun. Mokoto is very different from the normal types of characters I play, but she is really fun. Any combo thread that is made would be greatly appreciated. Right now I'm keeping the combos simple and working on getting consistent with executing challenge 6 without looking at the bar nor rings, since it has a lot of her fundamentals of what is discussed here except for the 214B~B j.D(3) 2366A which I will be working on next. Any other tips for a developing Makoto player beyond what is already said here?
Aile Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Just want to clarify, but does Makoto's 3C apparently go through/under Jin's Touga Hyoujin and not get hit? I happen to do so in one match and she didn't get any damage at all, just spins through it. also, Is there going to be a combo thread for makoto? The one on the makoto subforums seems to be for CS1 (although maybe some of her cs1 combos are still applicable for cs2 maybe? D; )
St1ckBuG Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 We should be seeing the combo theory posted within the next week (according to Omni). The combo thread will have the same layout as the last one I'd assume, which is good.
EiseneFaust Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 We should be seeing the combo theory posted within the next week (according to Omni). The combo thread will have the same layout as the last one I'd assume, which is good. The last combo thread was great, but I'd also like to see stuff that is commonly overlooked in such a post. Block Strings: which omni already posted here: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11493-CS2-Makoto-Nanaya-s-General-Discussion-Thread-%282A-gt-6K%29&p=1024377&viewfull=1#post1024377 Ronove added some info to it here: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11493-CS2-Makoto-Nanaya-s-General-Discussion-Thread-(2A-gt-6K)&p=1024810&viewfull=1#post1024810 and move analysis: which omni posted here: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11493-CS2-Makoto-Nanaya-s-General-Discussion-Thread-%282A-gt-6K%29&p=1027287&viewfull=1#post1027287 A simple quote of those posts would be great just to have a unified location for the information.
Airk Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Just want to clarify, but does Makoto's 3C apparently go through/under Jin's Touga Hyoujin and not get hit? I happen to do so in one match and she didn't get any damage at all, just spins through it. It doesn't "go under" it, precisely. 3C just has invulnerability frames to attacks that don't have the "Foot" Attribute. Touga Hyoujin (and, come to that, ALL of Jin's special moves and DDs, and, hilariously, his Astral) doesn't have the 'Foot' attribute, so if it makes contact with you between frames 6 and 27 of 3C (or 6 and 39 of 'fake' 3C) it'll go right through you, in the same way that attacks go through you during the startup of Corona upper. It works the same way - the attack doesn't "miss" you, you're just invulnerable to it. 3C's invulnerability is just a little more specific, so it'll get hit by moves that DO have the 'Foot' attribute, which is mostly crouching normals, and specials that hit low/come up out of the ground. The latter is a pretty inconsistent guide though - Jin's 2D has 'foot', but Lambda's Spike Chaser (the huge swords that come up out of the ground) does not. Your best bet for determining if you can skip through something with 3C is to look at the frame data in the 'Attribute' column, and look for the letter 'F'. If it's in there, it'll hit you at any time during 3C, if it's not, 3C's invulnerability frames apply.
Ronove Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 The last combo thread was great, but I'd also like to see stuff that is commonly overlooked in such a post. Block Strings: which omni already posted here: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11493-CS2-Makoto-Nanaya-s-General-Discussion-Thread-%282A-gt-6K%29&p=1024377&viewfull=1#post1024377 Ronove added some info to it here: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11493-CS2-Makoto-Nanaya-s-General-Discussion-Thread-(2A-gt-6K)&p=1024810&viewfull=1#post1024810 and move analysis: which omni posted here: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11493-CS2-Makoto-Nanaya-s-General-Discussion-Thread-%282A-gt-6K%29&p=1027287&viewfull=1#post1027287 A simple quote of those posts would be great just to have a unified location for the information. I think we could have a whole thread dedicated to her blockstrings and tachimawari, I think it's worth discussing it and analyzing it in details rather than just making a short list of "do this, do that" and having people mechanically learn that rather than trying to understand why it's better to use a certain setup in a specific situation and how to make proper use of all of them.
Aile Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 It doesn't "go under" it, precisely. 3C just has invulnerability frames to attacks that don't have the "Foot" Attribute. Touga Hyoujin (and, come to that, ALL of Jin's special moves and DDs, and, hilariously, his Astral) doesn't have the 'Foot' attribute, so if it makes contact with you between frames 6 and 27 of 3C (or 6 and 39 of 'fake' 3C) it'll go right through you, in the same way that attacks go through you during the startup of Corona upper. It works the same way - the attack doesn't "miss" you, you're just invulnerable to it. 3C's invulnerability is just a little more specific, so it'll get hit by moves that DO have the 'Foot' attribute, which is mostly crouching normals, and specials that hit low/come up out of the ground. The latter is a pretty inconsistent guide though - Jin's 2D has 'foot', but Lambda's Spike Chaser (the huge swords that come up out of the ground) does not. Your best bet for determining if you can skip through something with 3C is to look at the frame data in the 'Attribute' column, and look for the letter 'F'. If it's in there, it'll hit you at any time during 3C, if it's not, 3C's invulnerability frames apply. While I'm not familiar with frames , I have at least an understanding of what you're trying to say.Thank you > u <
Airk Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 While I'm not familiar with frames , I have at least an understanding of what you're trying to say.Thank you > u < Well, in this case, you can just think of 3C having it's unique invulnerability from "slightly after the move starts" until "a bit before it hits" and be good enough, though it might also help to know that the invulnerability period as a whole lasts about 1/3rd of a second. >.<
Crosell Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Good luck at Revelations Omni! I'll be secretly rooting for you! And I'll see you Sunday :3
EiseneFaust Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) I think we could have a whole thread dedicated to her blockstrings and tachimawari, I think it's worth discussing it and analyzing it in details rather than just making a short list of "do this, do that" and having people mechanically learn that rather than trying to understand why it's better to use a certain setup in a specific situation and how to make proper use of all of them. I am in total agreement with you here. I'd post it, but I don't have the Makoto knowledge yet nor the time to maintain an original post of that nature. [EDIT] I think in the combo thread we should list any tips for executing the combo, such as the tips that have been listed repeatedly about 214B~B j.D 236~6A. I think we also need to mention Option Selects, just to inform people about how to take advantage of them. Omni's post: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11493-CS2-Makoto-Nanaya-s-General-Discussion-Thread-(2A-gt-6K)&p=1029276&viewfull=1#post1029276 Exciel's post: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11493-CS2-Makoto-Nanaya-s-General-Discussion-Thread-(2A-gt-6K)&p=1029366&viewfull=1#post1029366 St1ckBug's post: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11493-CS2-Makoto-Nanaya-s-General-Discussion-Thread-(2A-gt-6K)&p=1038918&viewfull=1#post1038918 P.S. Good luck Omni, show Dacidbro why he lives in "Free"-mont :P P.P.S. Just teasing you Dacidbro, I enjoyed watching your matches when you came up to PNW. You bodied Derek's pheonix something fierce in MvC3 LOL! Edited June 9, 2011 by EiseneFaust adding OS post links
milesw Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Poke. That was the word I was looking for. I'll try her 2C some more. It's just a pain defending till they have a huge opening then watching the computer counter it flawlessly with their slowest moves.... *sigh* Using 2C as a poke? You mad bro?
Nini Heart Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Using 2C as a poke? You mad bro? You'd be surprised. I saw Satoshi using it at max range footsies on WNF stream. I was like WTF, this nigga gonna get bodied. But people got blown up by it and I was like ?_?
EiseneFaust Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Nice reverse OCV omni against Dacid's team. You have a pretty solid Makoto. That last round versus Tager had me on the edge of my seat lol.
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