[CS2] Noel Vermillion Beginner Questions Thread

[Raptor]

5B is a very good poke.

[Ichipoo]

I personally play footsies with her 5B and 5C (more with 5B) and hope it CHs so that I can go straight into a 3C combo. If they don't, I have 50 Heat, and they're not far away, I can RC into 6A > stuff. If they're in the air, JC into an air combo.

[excelence]

Ok thx, other than hit confirming ch and RC follow up, what's her best follow up on normal 5b hit?

[Ichipoo]

As in a clean normal 5B on a standing opponent, not CH, with no heat? Only combo she can go for is 5B > 5C > 2C. If you're feeling gutsy, you can go for 5B > (5C if 5B is not blocked since 5C is not JCable on block) > JC > high/low/j.4C crossup mixup.

[Raptor]

CH 5B can be followed by 3C if I'm not mistakened. On normal hit you can continue combo with 2B, 5C (RC to 6A for combo), or 2C (recommended as this move gives frame advantage). If crouching, a following 5C to 3C will lead to combos.

You can also try going for overheads like 6B or 5C>6B, but it's risky.

[LunaKage]

If you are close enough you can do: 5B > 2B > 6A > 6C > into a combo, if you are mid range, 5B > 2B > 6A > 5C > Air combo works.

If you are at optimal spacing range though, you want those Counter Hits, but on crouching 5B > 5C > 2C > 3C works, so try that out and hit confirm for crouchers.

[Ichipoo]

5B > 2B > 6A > 6C > stuff works? I guess SJC would would make j.D connect.

[LunaKage]

5B > 2B > 6A > 6C > stuff works? I guess SJC would would make j.D connect.

It works on a good number of hitboxes, so you may want to test it out before you make it a staple.

[excelence]

... ... i think i'll just spamming OB and 2d, thanks Guys orz

[Arcknight]

Am I safe to assume that using 22C and 6C(2) more than once in a combo is a combo killer? After doing some random stuff in training it seems like the repeat proration on those attacks just rapes the follow-up damage.

Also is j.D the preferred starter for drive combos now instead of 5D? The new slide on 5D makes the timing incredibly awkward and the forward movement is not always a good thing since it could possibly cross-under your opponent (which might be useful?). Just some things I was noticing. Carry on.

Edit: I suppose j.D has been the preferred way since CS1 so that may not even be relevant. Plus the reduction in 5D's invincibility frames make it a much less safe starter.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Arcknight

[HexaNoid]

Am I safe to assume that using 22C and 6C(2) more than once in a combo is a combo killer? After doing some random stuff in training it seems like the repeat proration on those attacks just rapes the follow-up damage.

Correct. Using either of those moves twice usually makes the follow up combo impossible to pull off. If you notice you've done either of these moves for the second time in a match, just stopped the combo early so you don't get punished for whiffing an attack.

Also is j.D the preferred starter for drive combos now instead of 5D? The new slide on 5D makes the timing incredibly awkward and the forward movement is not always a good thing since it could possibly cross-under your opponent (which might be useful?).

Like you said, the new properties of 5D do make it slightly more awkward to land on opponents, but luckily j.D enders do slightly more damage than 5D enders. j.D > d.6D > d.6B > xxx vs. 5D > d.6B > xxx.

Of course there are combos that use both 5D and j.D in them which is obviously even better, but just stick to j.D enders if you wanna stay on the safe side.

[Chiizu]

On the plus side, 5C CH links with 5D so you can get a fat combo off 5C CH, no need to use that OMFGIMSOEFFINUNSAFE 3C anymore (I still do it out of muscle memory though).

[HexaNoid]

On the plus side, 5C CH links with 5D so you can get a fat combo off 5C CH, no need to use that OMFGIMSOEFFINUNSAFE 3C anymore (I still do it out of muscle memory though).

CH 5C has always linked into 5D. Same as CH 6C. It's been like that since CT I think lol.

Also, the above two CHs link into 2D which nets you slightly better damage, so try and use that instead.

[Arcknight]

Thanks for that confirmation Hexa. I just noticed the damage turned into complete crap and their untechable time disappeared almost entirely. I think in CS1 you could 6C twice to combo and land a third but only the first hit would connect. Maybe I am remembering that wrong. Oh well.

Before I forget to ask for the 100th time: What is the best thing to do after a counter-assault? I realize it's faster but I still can't ever land a successful counter-hit without being poked out of CS1 style. Suggestions on that?

Edited May 24, 2011 by Arcknight

[geckotide]

I have come to the conclusion that Noel's challenge #7 is impossible and is designed solely to annoy me. Seriously, I really can't get the 6D after j.D to hit; I can't see how Bang could tech out of it, I've tried dashing in deep with her 6C, hitting him with just the tip of it, but nothing seems to work. The same with #8; I can do it fine until the j.D > 6D, it completely stuffs me.

[SkyKing]

I have come to the conclusion that Noel's challenge #7 is impossible and is designed solely to annoy me. Seriously, I really can't get the 6D after j.D to hit; I can't see how Bang could tech out of it, I've tried dashing in deep with her 6C, hitting him with just the tip of it, but nothing seems to work. The same with #8; I can do it fine until the j.D > 6D, it completely stuffs me.

I've done it to where you have to delay j.D on your jump or to super j.D to get the right timing for 6D to connect. If you normal jump and j.D as soon as possible, the untech time will run out before you land, so they are able to tech.

[HexaNoid]

Before I forget to ask for the 100th time: What is the best thing to do after a counter-assault? I realize it's faster but I still can't ever land a successful counter-hit without being poked out of CS1 style. Suggestions on that?

Depends on the situation really. Say for instance you've done a CA and you've made your opponent whiff an attack with a lot of recovery (e.g. Ragna's 5D), you'll want to punish him with your own attack into a combo. However, if your opponent could easily recover out of their attack and put you in another blockstring or something, you'll want to be looking to get some distance from them with a jump or back-dash or apply some pressure with 5A > blockstring to keep your opponent on their toes.

Read the situation and see what the best approach is; their really isn't a single 'best thing' to do after every CA.

I have come to the conclusion that Noel's challenge #7 is impossible and is designed solely to annoy me. Seriously, I really can't get the 6D after j.D to hit; I can't see how Bang could tech out of it, I've tried dashing in deep with her 6C, hitting him with just the tip of it, but nothing seems to work. The same with #8; I can do it fine until the j.D > 6D, it completely stuffs me.

So you found out our terrible secret? :3

Seriously though, with j.D > 6D combos you'll want to make sure you're doing one of two things to make it connect - delay your j.D or do a sj.D. Don't forget though that if you do use a super jump, you'll land on the opposite side of your opponent so you'll have to adjust the rest of the combo accordingly. Getting both hits of j.D to connect may also help you out here. Good luck.

[Arcknight]

That's j.D > 6D timing isn't normally as strict as it seems in challenge mode combos. I have NEVER had problems doing it outside of challenge mode. Like the other have said: if you can get used to waiting another half a second you'll be fine.

[HexaNoid]

Challenge mode was a dick and told us to stick some OpticAs in the combo which made it slightly harder to connect. Now, my love for OBs is strong but that still kinda annoyed me lol.

[Arcknight]

I just ignored Challenge Mode this time around lol. I got my 100 done in CS1 and dedicated my life to never going back!

[KraaL]

Challenge #7 went ok, #8 made me rage tonight, I'm so bad at this !

- Depending on the timing of 214A,2B Bang techs the following 6C immediately in the air, preventing 22B,22BC from hitting anything (slowly getting this down)

- 22BC,66C gets me dash into *nothing*, (I realize I have to delay 66C, yet fails 50% of times)

- 236A,66C is teched (I fail 100% here).

- Bang sometimes decides to block randomly in the middle of the first drive combo. Reinitializing the level usually gets rid of this behavior for the next few minutes.

/rant off. Sorry about that.

[Ichipoo]

Don't feel bad, just keep at it. If it makes you feel better, CS2 Noel's challenges are easier than CS1 IMO.

[KraaL]

I've read your discussions in the combo thread and come to the conclusion that after silencer sequences I should dash cancel and then 6C instead of trying to do 66C at the right moment.

So 66,6C and not 66C... right ?

And btw, standard online player is oblivious to the beginner symbol on the rooms I create :p Most players I get are ~lvl40 and sometimes I even get lvl50+ Well at least they rarely end up with their full health as I have footsies fondamentals from other FGs and Noel's openings are often painful.

Edited May 25, 2011 by KraaL

[LunaKage]

I've read your discussions in the combo thread and come to the conclusion that after silencer sequences I should dash cancel and then 6C instead of trying to do 66C at the right moment.

So 66,6C and not 66C... right ?

It really depends.

After a standard 22BC~66(the dash cancel notation I use) I'll just delay 6C.

After a 22BBBBBC~66, I'll dash again AFTER the dash cancel, and use 6C, so putting it in notation terms:

22BC~66 > 6C

or

22BBBBC~66 > 66C

Once you get the timing down it's not that bad.

[Hiroshi]

Whee, CS2 on PS3 in Europe! Hexa even gave me a warm welcome by taking my CS2 virginity.

Anyways, with the 5D change and her new rushdown options, I feel like I need to change my gameplan by rushing down more. It's just, I have... no idea how to do that. I assume her normals for approaches are 2A and 5B? I'm not really sure which one to use when though.

Also, blockstrings... Can you guys give me some advice on what to do? So far I've been lucky to get hits with stuff like 2C 66 5A 2B 6A 6B, but going for 6B after 6A, 5B or 5C all the time will surely make them block it somewhere down the road which also stops my blockstring, doesn't it?