eQualz Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 Maybe being a jack of all trades, master of none is his weakness? That sounds dumb.
xlolxlolx Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 hixboxes, mediocre projectiles, mediocre pressue overall his animations are just garbage, ice sword throwing, 6a spin, 6c forward movement, j.c's lower hitbox, j.b nerfs, c dp's slow as fuck things that would make him better....hmmm rework ice sword animations , cs1 j.b, maybe make 6b an overhead since its fucking 25 frames startup, bring ex ice sword a dp combos back, sigh....his concept was to burn meter to do dmg.....hasnt done that since cs1
Fluck Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 All of the following is in comparison with stronger characters. - Lack of damage and weaker overall reward. Part of this is weaker confirms in EX such as CH j.B air hit nerfs and of course nerfs to 6C. - Weak mix-up. - Neutral is not bad, but not outstanding either unlike top tiers. - Relies too much on meter. Requires meter for good defense (CA, Hirensou), stronger offense (D Ice Car confirms, 6A RC), and neutral (EX Ice Swords) and obviously doesn't have enough meter to support all three. - No reliable anti-air. For example, if you're on the ground Ragna's j.C will eat you alive unless you do B Fubuki. This was fine in CS2 partly because he was so strong in the air, which allowed him to just air-to-air all the time. Now this option is less viable. Basically it's a variety of reasons because he's the balanced character. He just doesn't match up as well in many areas compared to the top tier chars.
Rewenger Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 Jin's meter gain became better in EX so he can actually spend it doing RC and D-specials. Jin's numerous grab mixups/gimmicks/(fake)crossups make it up for lack of decent overhead. Yet the moment jin stops thinking becomes his downfall since characters like Ragna (or maybe Tager) can play pretty effectively without having to turn their brain on.
TCSyd Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) 6A really shouldn't require RC to follow-up, or the damage off of it should be increased to make the RC seem worthwhile. I also think that Jin could really use a reliable re-freeze. On a side note, anyone else think it's bullshit that 214D takes your freeze? Edited March 27, 2012 by TCSyd
Solex Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) theres a lot of really good ideas above but also some i don't think fit. like equalz thats a reason why a lot of people went to him bc he is the jack of all trades...but in ex he isnt lol's post is almost perfect in my eyes and it puts jin in what i think the right direction is except for having c dp faster, it should stay slower since hirensou is gdlk and fubuki exists fluck jins neutral requires him to be really defensive if he wants to be effective and jin can do that well and completely shut down the opponents approach but the problem is he doesn't get a reward worth it for the work he does in neutral. really though his jump normals are laughable guys, is there a character who has a lower average of hitstun on jump normals than jin...maybe tsubaki. i think a lot of people here think jin should go down the path of meter dependent since he has meter centered options. jins anti airs are godlike thats why he shits all over kune also jin isnt balanced in my opinion he is weak 6a p1 should be high around 100 or something TCSyd good point about 214d. also bb needs to fix its cross up system it is ridiculous how far on the other side of the opponent i am and its still not a cross up jins mixup would be really good...but maybe to good Edited March 27, 2012 by Solex
Jyosua Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) hixboxes, mediocre projectiles, mediocre pressue overall his animations are just garbage, ice sword throwing, 6a spin, 6c forward movement, j.c's lower hitbox, j.b nerfs, c dp's slow as fuck things that would make him better....hmmm rework ice sword animations , cs1 j.b, maybe make 6b an overhead since its fucking 25 frames startup, bring ex ice sword a dp combos back, sigh....his concept was to burn meter to do dmg.....hasnt done that since cs1 I like his air projectiles, but otherwise this. I pull so much out of my ass with air projectile counterhits that I'd like it if they stay the same. Other than that, completely agree. 6A really shouldn't require RC to follow-up, or the damage off of it should be increased to make the RC seem worthwhile. I also think that Jin could really use a reliable re-freeze. On a side note, anyone else think it's bullshit that 214D takes your freeze? This. I'd really like a ground overhead that doesn't require a rapid. make 6B one, or lose the rapid on 6A, or both. I don't really care, but I feel like something needs to change. Yeah the 214D thing is kinda bullshit, now that I think about it. also bb needs to fix its cross up system it is ridiculous how far on the other side of the opponent i am and its still not a cross up jins mixup would be really good...but maybe to good The way I see it, crossover works fine... the problem is that the characters do not turn around fast enough. I crossover j.D and the opponent blocks, so I special cancel into ice sword B... it shoots the other way. My only option there is to use ice car to run the fuck away, unless I'm in a corner in which case I'm fucked either way. For me: I find Jin's meter gain to be perfect in EX. I blow a fuckton of meter because I'm a scrub and I like catching people with j.236D. I've also found that I can solve my problems with getting people into the corner with Ice Car D and keep them there with j.236D. In my opinion, Jin's air projectiles are okay, because if you get a counterhit with them, you can combo into 2D or a better move if you're closer, because you've got like 184715893729582 hours to confirm off them. Hit ground projectiles are a little lame though. I do wish that it was easier to special cancel 6C>Ice Blade B because for some reason the game interprets that as fubuki half of the time. ~_~ I sometimes wonder who programmed their input reader... Edit: Somehow, I typed 214 instead of 236 when talking about Jin's EX moves... derp. Edited March 27, 2012 by Jyosua
Moy_X7 Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 Weak jump-ins: j.2C has a pretty crappy hit-box overall, j.B takes too long to actually hit the opponent with the lower hit-box, j.C can be crouched under.Hit-stun nerf: j.B and j.C were decent back in the day because they at least gave you an infinite amount of time to confirm. You can't get much out of them unless you're at the optimal distance to confirm. I've had people mash out on my j.B after an IB...Distance dependent combos: the distance at which you hit your opponent will either make or break your combo. You have to be pretty close to the opponent to get Sekkajin to work. You're not getting much out of your pokes unless you burn some meter with 214D. Even when burning meter, you still have to be relatively close to the corner to get some decent damage to make up for the heat loss. He has way too many combo paths and character specific combos, which is just bad character design IMO. 6A is a pretty bad overhead: self-explanatory, -4 on block, barely +1 on hit, horrible range, and can't combo off of it unless you RC. I wouldn't mind for this move to be a little slower if they gave it some more gatlings, specially if you could gatling into 5B. His useful defensive options require meter: Jin has no DP/reversal until he builds 25+ Heat, DP C is out of the question. Too slow, laughable hit-box, and leaves you like a sitting duck on block or whiff. His ground projectiles are damn near useless: pretty much the only projectile that you can use to get in or maintain pressure is TK j.236C or the other aerial Ice Blades. His EX attacks are pretty bad (except for DP D): 236D has way too much start-up, j.236D has way too much recovery, 214D is highly punishable on block and it's not even that fast. They seriously need to come up with a more balanced j.236D; not as good as CT's but not as bad as in every iteration beyond it. He's not a bad character but he's a mess. He's not even a "jack-of-all-trades" now, he's more of like an indecisive college dropout who tried every major trade and couldn't finish any of them.
Rewenger Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 for some reason the game interprets that as fubuki half of the time If you're holding [6] after 6C and start inputting 236 immediately, the game will obviously interpret it as 623. You have to return your gamepad/stick in neutral for a moment and input 236. Meanwhile there's no such problem with arcade stick since you have to return stick to neutral after most inputs.
Jyosua Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 If you're holding [6] after 6C and start inputting 236 immediately, the game will obviously interpret it as 623. You have to return your gamepad/stick in neutral for a moment and input 236. Meanwhile there's no such problem with arcade stick since you have to return stick to neutral after most inputs. Oh, I know that's the reason, but I play on stick, and unless I just tap the 6 direction and press C (which is not quite easy for me... I tend to hold directions for a fraction of a second) it will interpret the followup as fubuki. Like, you can't hold it at ALL. I suppose that's fine for those who are super, super comfortable with their pressure, but I'm not really comfortable with using 6C in pressure. It's a move that is highly punishable if used improperly so I have been discouraged from autopiloting that in my strings. That said, I've had 236 turning into ice car in some matches... the input reader is very, very strange sometimes. On a side note, I just reread the post I made earlier and realized I typed 214 when I meant 236... lol.
Rewenger Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) Nah, sometimes I move stick from 6 to 214 (like 66C > 214C/D) and release it too abruptly. And it returns to neutral with too much force, invoking additional 6. That said, it's fine if it's an Ice Wave ender, but whiffing Hiyoku is just too scary shit now in extend. I wonder if I should modify something... Edited March 27, 2012 by Rewenger
Chris Chaos Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) He's not a bad character but he's a mess. He's not even a "jack-of-all-trades" now, he's more of like an indecisive college dropout who tried every major trade and couldn't finish any of them. Not to be funny but that technically still makes him a "Jack-of-all-Trades, but a Master of None" Edit: Sorry Shyn, I accidentally clicked on "Edit" post lol. Sometimes I forget that I'm a mod XD Edit2: It's cool bro. I found the accident pretty funny XD Edited March 28, 2012 by Shinsyn
xHarukashii Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 I like EX jin. Its like he has a super ghetto vortex in the corner.
Jyosua Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 Nah, sometimes I move stick from 6 to 214 (like 66C > 214C/D) and release it too abruptly. And it returns to neutral with too much force, invoking additional 6. That said, it's fine if it's an Ice Wave ender, but whiffing Hiyoku is just too scary shit now in extend. I wonder if I should modify something... OH FUCK! I wondered how that happened to me! I was seriously at a loss for how I got a super out of my ice car input. It happened to me like, twice, and confused the shit out of me.
Moy_X7 Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 Not to be funny but that technically still makes him a "Jack-of-all-Trades, but a Master of None" "Who tried to get an associate's degree on every major trade and couldn't get even one of them."
cadacus_ater Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 OH FUCK! I wondered how that happened to me! I was seriously at a loss for how I got a super out of my ice car input. It happened to me like, twice, and confused the shit out of me. I notice myself having the opposite problem using a controller (PS3 thumbstick). My supers turn into ice cars, or occassionally DPs
Chris Chaos Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) ~Image~ "Who tried to get an associate's degree on every major trade and couldn't get even one of them." LOL that pic! I don't know, ask Jin, he somehow managed to do it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Edited March 28, 2012 by Shinsyn
Jyosua Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 I notice myself having the opposite problem using a controller (PS3 thumbstick). My supers turn into ice cars, or occassionally DPs That happens to me too sometimes, but I immediately understood how it happened. When the reverse happens, I'm like "...The FUCK was that?"
xlolxlolx Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 playing with dualshock 3 analog stick!? the fuck?
vanfleihight Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Brought my PS3 back from the yellow light. I am unbelievably happy right now. Back to ice cars and terrible proration!
Jourdal Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) He's not even a "jack-of-all-trades" now, he's more of like an indecisive college dropout who tried every major trade and couldn't finish any of them. Ironically i'm doing better with this jin than i did in the other BBs.... @Van how did you manage that o:? Im scared its gonna happen to mine soon... Random but...I enjoy fighting valk with jin....this could be more I'm having more fun playing offline than anything everyone says I'm crazy Edited March 29, 2012 by Jourdal
vanfleihight Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 @Van how did you manage that o:? Im scared its gonna happen to mine soon... I found a video online that showed a method to fix it. Basically the problem was that the inside of the console got so hot the solder melted and shifted the CPU out of position so you just needed to get a heat gun that goes up to about 700F and heat it up back into position. I would only worry about it if your PS3 is really old and/or you've been noticing the fan has been going at full blast/really loud lately. Might wanna back up your save data because it shuts off without warning and could potentially corrupt your HD in the middle of a save process. You will be in full on hulk rage if you play RPGs lol. I have the old fat 60gb one myself.
Jourdal Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 I have an 80 gig i got um...lol actually know the exact date i got by ps3 since it was the week before CT, some times my fan is loud but thats after i've been playing a long time..just a bit worried lol. And you know...i've been getting requests to upload CMVs...fellow jins...i want to feature one a Jin player CMV for once
vanfleihight Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Maybe the tutorial should be finished first before any of that happens lol.
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