kotokot Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 how would you OS rolls with PF? is it just like hazama's? because throwing out a 5D if they don't roll is a hell of a lot worse than hazama throwing out 5B. also, what common things does 3C still beat with its janky hitbox? All I know off the top of my head is litchi's DP. it doesn't even seem to go under lambda's 5D now. its either barrier, either PF if they rolls behind you. 3C beats anything with head/body attribute with superslow recovery. You can punish some supers with 3[C] for whiffing super and 5C CH/2C FC punish.
StarGazer Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgpQ4CJL4MU&t=3m21s vs Litchi (Fio) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgpQ4CJL4MU&t=6m50s vs Tager (Yumura) you can see Makoto's problem in this set
Reisi Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 Proration on PF is 75/90 now. With DP ender it would be about 4500-4800, i think it's pretty okay. 236236D at the end adds less than 1k in most cases, don't think its worth 50% if it wouldn't kill opponent. Prefer to have for better midscreen combos and having RC for mixups/DP. Heat gain would be lower, about 15, cooldown on PF(2) is 470F=(can get a bit more heat with 236A~D. Well, that explains a lot of things. I thought only the P2 of Particle Flare's second hit got slightly worse. Seems like I was *really* wrong there. :V Agreeing on the PF ender, just wanted to maximize damage for some perspective. And good idea with 236A~D, might be worth it to go for j.D > 2C > 236A~D > stuff since 2C's repeat proration isn't as abysmal as that of her drives. Thanks for the feedback~ Will probably experiment with BBS instead, see where that'll go. Have some ideas floating around, will try them once I feel like testing stuff out again.
Eshi Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 its either barrier, either PF if they rolls behind you. 3C beats anything with head/body attribute with superslow recovery. You can punish some supers with 3[C] for whiffing super and 5C CH/2C FC punish.ohhh using barrier... that's pretty clever.
SolAscension Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 I've never seen Shierinfo-do, does he go by something else also? Seems pretty solid tho, I like his style. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SnZJaT6Vpw
kotokot Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) some combos again: from midscreen 2A with 50% 2A>5CC>214A~CCCCC RC>2D>2C>214A~C~B>5CC>j.B>j.D>214A~C~A 3114/-37+16 2A>5CC>214A~CCCCC RC>2D>2C>214A~C~B>5CC>sj.B>j.C>j.B>dj.B>623C~D 3140/-37+21 2A>5CC>214A~CCCCC RC>2D>2C>214A~C~B>5CC>j.B>j.D>5D>5CC>sj.B>j.C>j.B>dj.B>623C~D 3448/-37+33 2A>5CC>214A~CCCCC RC>5D>2D>2C>236A~D>5CC>j.B>j.D>5CC>sj.B>j.C>j.B>dj.B>623C~D 3574/-37+36 you cannot combo 214A~C~B if you used 5B. I think you can get more damage by using PF, but it eats your heat and is harder to be in corner at the end, i.e. 2D must hit from needed side. Other starters must be pretty same, 2B could be not working or working without 2C. Edited January 27, 2012 by kotokot
StarGazer Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 ^ big disappointment Also, remember guys to input the PF OS as 214214D~A+B, if he roll PF will come out, if he didn't you will Kara Cancel to barrier the 5D.
Bibiquadium Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 Anyway I'll find some time during next week to work on that CMV of mine,gathering intel here and there, it won't be a CMV about showing off useless combos that will never be used, but on the contrary, a CMV filled with useful combos to use in battle. Of course I won't put every single combos posted in this thread since I'm not working on a movie, just something about 15 min long filled with useful stuff.
StarGazer Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 GodGarden 5 Adon vs Goro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvqiX9CCbAI GG Goro, the only Makoto was there, too bad he got kicked from the first match.
StarGazer Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 How much you can get from this in corner? j.2C > 2A/5A > Corner Combo = ? Damage/Heat
Bibiquadium Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 I'll answer your question differently, don't use 2C
Reisi Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) You can't combo from j.2C unless it's either a counter hit or hits a crouching opponent on it's descent, so it's actually somewhat hard to combo afterwards, with the landing recovery and all. Add the bad proration to that, and you won't get anything decent out of it. It's so bad on block, I'm pretty sure Tager gets a free 360 on regular block for that. If it's blocked mid-air, your opponent will usually be able to counter-hit you mid-air as well. Seriously, that move must be somewhere between -3 to -6 depending on how high an opponent blocks it, probably even worse. You can do this on a standing opponent however: 5C CH > j.2C > RC > j.B > 5B > 6A > 5B > 5CC > 214A~C~CCCCC for...I forgot, probably 2.5k or so. :V Edited January 29, 2012 by Reisi
milesw Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) How much you can get from this in corner? j.2C > 2A/5A > Corner Combo = ? Damage/Heat j.2c>2a>5cc>5d>2d>2c>236a~d>5cc>j.b>jc>j.d>66>5cc>j.b>jc>jb>dp ~lvl3 d 2904 dmg 44 heat I'm pretty sure Tager gets a free 360 on regular block for that. Im no pro at 360s but he cant 360 or ib 360 it if we jump after the j.2c(will lose if the tager mashes 2a). Pressing buttons, backdashing is a nono. Tagers love doing 360 after a j.2c It may sometimes be a good bait to actually j.2c, jump and j.cc a whiffed 360 attempt. (Wouldnt abuse it though. Dat 2C and AC) On the whole don't use the move. If you do use it accidentily... just dragon RC or suttin lolol Edited January 30, 2012 by milesw
Reisi Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Okay, went to the lab, you're right, j.2C isn't as terrible as I thought, but still terrible. Tager can IB 360B j.2C, but only if you get your j.2C instant blocked at the highest part of Tager's hitbox, A.K.A. his head. Or you do it close to the ground for whatever reason and hit him before you accelerate. In that case, he can actually regular block 360B you.
StarGazer Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 Doing j.2C on Tager from afar to gain more frame advantage will usually end up in Tager 2C'ing you > Game Over, from close he can 360 you even on hit. j.2C is too Risky now and have a bad rewards, but i will still use it when its needed because it covers something Makoto lacks.
MarkusArx Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 but i will still use it when its needed because it covers something Makoto lacks. ...Modesty? I've been lurking here too much, though then again, I certainly don't have the necessary tools or input to be majorly useful to the Makoto boards at the moment. I'm still however thinking of continuing to play her as a main for tournaments and stuff. I like uphill battles from time to time. If worse comes to worse however, I'll probably sub Hazama. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Crosell Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 ...Modesty? I've been lurking here too much, though then again, I certainly don't have the necessary tools or input to be majorly useful to the Makoto boards at the moment. I'm still however thinking of continuing to play her as a main for tournaments and stuff. I like uphill battles from time to time. If worse comes to worse however, I'll probably sub Hazama. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ same here, haven't had much play time with extend. Nor any time in the lab.
Bibiquadium Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 Since she lost most of her tools in the air, you should be staying on the ground as much as you can and just keep spacing with 5B, overall on the ground she still has a lot of potential and her 6A is still just as good. Been playing a shitload since Dec. 17 and unless you played her for easy high damage combo, she still has potential, so overall, Makoto is still Makoto and don't let the tier scare you I even consider her to be extremely underrated.
StarGazer Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 Anzu's Makoto vs Yoshiki's Lambda http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx4JxcxrbX0 Was watching the PNW Casuals when i found this Makoto by random HeinekenJ (Makoto) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFk2Hb-HZAs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb2apgJaZEY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak6ybwBhhUU First time i see this player. ...Modesty? Not sure if i follow what you mean by this I'd never j2c Tager in the first place. Get Magnetized > j.2C > lol In CS2 j.2C was rarely used anyway ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ we can still play without it. Since she lost most of her tools in the air, you should be staying on the ground as much as you can and just keep spacing with 5B, overall on the ground she still has a lot of potential and her 6A is still just as good. Been playing a shitload since Dec. 17 and unless you played her for easy high damage combo, she still has potential, so overall, Makoto is still Makoto and don't let the tier scare you I even consider her to be extremely underrated. She is what the tier says, but that doesn't mean you will have a (hard time) getting a win, its just a bit of challenge. Anyway BB is really balanced, the gaps between characters are really small compared to other games For now, i wonder how will Makoto turn out in future ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
MarkusArx Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Not sure if i follow what you mean by this Don't worry, just a simple attempt of poking fun at Makoto's outfit.
StarGazer Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 @KayEff: Makoto Initial Dash speed have been tuned down, can you find how much is it now? there is nothing about it in the Frame Data it's still the same. People rejoice, Makoto Initial dash speed is still the same. KayEff is my hero Don't worry, just a simple attempt of poking fun at Makoto's outfit. because it covers something Makoto lacks. oh I see xD
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