Eshi Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 Hey guys, decided to learn up on Tsubaki for CSEX Does anyone know if her specials (214x, 236x, etc) have any special properties to them? I know full charged 22D is unblockable, but I'm not sure about the rest.all C specials take off a primer, and 22C is safe on block so it's great for guard breaking or ending block strings. her ABC specials that have special follow-ups can be canceled into their drive versions, even on whiff or block. even if her opponent is backed up to a corner, 236D will go through them. 22X specials all wall bounce on counter hit. 22A is the fastest and can stuff a LOT of moves, especially at the start of a match. That's all the important properties I can think of.
BatousaiJ Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) 236C/j.236/j.214C don't take away primers. The other noteworthy thing to mention is the 214x series and their head invul frames. Especially the 214D which can go straight through a lot of moves and land a CH leading to a full IAD combo or more. Edited December 29, 2011 by BatousaiJ
Eshi Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 236C/j.236/j.214C don't take away primers.my mistake, 22C is the only one that matters anyway
M19Kamikaze Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 The other noteworthy thing to mention is the 214x series and their head invul frames. Ah! That explains some of the attacks that whiffed past me. Thanks
Rhiya Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 my mistake, 22C is the only one that matters anyway 22C isn't plus anymore. Doesn't matter. Literally trash unless you want to guardbreak.
Errol Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 Guard breaking just isn't part of our game now, I guess. Unless they're down to 1-2 primers because of burst or CAs..
shad0whiei Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 Never really concentrated on breaking guard primers with Tsubaki before. Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
BatousaiJ Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) You should. Many characters will end up with 2 primers after one burst and that's very easy to break especially if they don't expect you to go for it. If you break a primer and have 50 meter, you can get 1 charge after the break and easily do 5.5k ish damage without a problem so it's something you should try to go for if you can. 22C isn't plus anymore. Doesn't matter. Literally trash unless you want to guardbreak. Very wrong. Just because something isn't + on block doesn't make it crap. it still has great knock back and quick enough recovery that you can either backdash or jump to set up your next offense. There are maybe a handful of DD in the whole game(no normals I can think of) that can punish that move on block because of the push back range and even then, you'd have to be insanely quick on the draw. Edited December 29, 2011 by BatousaiJ
Rhiya Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 You guys might want to consider integrating guardbreak into your game more in CSEX. 1 burst and one CA = 1 primer for almost all of the cast.
LunarSelenia Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 You guys might want to consider integrating guardbreak into your game more in CSEX. 1 burst and one CA = 1 primer for almost all of the cast. Was playing a few games last night Ragna/Relius/Hakumen vs. Tsubaki...but ehehehe every time I land a 3C FC > RC on Akira, he freaking bursts out of my combo ._.;;;; I'm pretty sure any 3C Fatal landed will be bursted out of if they have it available. At least that's what I feel like to me right now. But eh, if they do, make them use CA or just keep on using C moves to guard break and happy times~
Rhiya Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 Very wrong. Just because something isn't + on block doesn't make it crap. it still has great knock back and quick enough recovery that you can either backdash or jump to set up your next offense. There are maybe a handful of DD in the whole game(no normals I can think of) that can punish that move on block because of the push back range and even then, you'd have to be insanely quick on the draw. The recovery is slow, Bat. Test it yourself. You should know that simply from trying to do 22C>6C in the corner. If you use it, it's the end of your pressure.
pktazn Posted December 30, 2011 Author Posted December 30, 2011 Was playing a few games last night Ragna/Relius/Hakumen vs. Tsubaki...but ehehehe every time I land a 3C FC > RC on Akira, he freaking bursts out of my combo ._.;;;; I'm pretty sure any 3C Fatal landed will be bursted out of if they have it available. At least that's what I feel like to me right now. But eh, if they do, make them use CA or just keep on using C moves to guard break and happy times~ Maybe you can use it as a way to burst bait? Unless FC 3C recovery is still slow then never mind aha.
BatousaiJ Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 The recovery is slow, Bat. Test it yourself. You should know that simply from trying to do 22C>6C in the corner. If you use it, it's the end of your pressure. Obviously it's the end of your blockstring but that doesn't mean you should never use it. That's like saying you should never go for a tick throw because if they break the throw your pressure would be over. It breaks a primer, is very, very hard to punish on block and if you hit someone with it either by itself or with a 6B > 22C and etc you can go for a meaty 3k ish combo in the corner off of it. Well worth throwing into your pressure routine. Stop counting stuff out just because of some frame data that doesn't exist yet, boys.
Rhiya Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 It's good for breaking primers and that's it. Throws are there so you have an option for people who hold downback all day. They're unsafe if broken because, well, it's designed to be an option that gets through blocking no matter what. 22C doesn't quite have that level of usefulness to counteract the mediocre recovery. And compare it to, say, Dead Spike, which /also/ breaks primers yet leaves Rags at a comfortable +3 to keep momentum.
BatousaiJ Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Ya that's true, 22C isn't deadspike. It's a lot faster. You keep making hastily judgements about this and that and you really haven't played enough as Tsu to know what you're talking about...
Rhiya Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Yes, 22C is faster than Dead Spike. However, both are blockstring enders that take primers, and one forces respect on block because it's plus while the other does not. It used to be good as it was +1. Now, not so much. I wish I had exact numbers for you, but I'm pretty sure it's not even safe on block. I'd like to wrong about that, though.
LunarSelenia Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Maybe you can use it as a way to burst bait? Unless FC 3C recovery is still slow then never mind aha. Sounds interesting, I can see what I can do about it *nod nod* Time to hit training mode later, when Akira isn't taking a nap ._.;;
Rhiya Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Sounds interesting, I can see what I can do about it *nod nod* Time to hit training mode later, when Akira isn't taking a nap ._.;; FC 3C recovers fast enough to link 5C. That should be more than good enough to block.
LunarSelenia Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Well that makes sense. LOL. I want to play now~ X__X;; need to really hit up training mode.
MashThat5A Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Yes, 22C is faster than Dead Spike. However, both are blockstring enders that take primers, and one forces respect on block because it's plus while the other does not. Uh...Dead Spike isn't really a blockstring ender. A blockstring ender is a safe move that you throw out that pretty much forces the game back into neutral. In Ragna's case, this would be 2D. Dead Spike is more of a tool to threaten people that like to hold back, and last time I checked, it's always risky to throw it out.
Rhiya Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 I said blockstring ender, not pressure ender. DS ends blockstrings because it doesn't chain into anything else; however, it lets you continue pressure on block and start a /new/ blockstring because it's plus. And yes, DS has startup and is therefore a bit of a risk to throw out, but /anything/ that lets you reset pressure will carry some risk. 2D ends your blockstring, but /also/ your pressure, because it's minus and has no gatlings without RC. Can't do anything after it.
pktazn Posted December 30, 2011 Author Posted December 30, 2011 I'm confused... where did he say pressure ender?
Rhiya Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) I'm confused... where did he say pressure ender? Nowhere, but he also makes it sound like you run one blockstring until your pressure runs out, which, frankly, is not a way I've ever heard anyone discuss blockstrings. So I made a distinction where a blockstring ender is something you can't or don't chain anything else off of (example, Tsubaki 6B), and a pressure ender is something you can't or don't chain anything off of that also doesn't allow you to continue pressuring (like what he states Ragna 2D is). Pressure enders would be a subset of blockstring enders. Edited December 30, 2011 by Dusk Thanatos
pktazn Posted December 30, 2011 Author Posted December 30, 2011 Ah I see, I understand better now. Thanks for explaining that :D
TheGreatReptar Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 So, I got Extend today, and just a few things I found out in training mode: 5C>5D charge cancel is actually + on block. 22C looks like -3 6B is still +. Probably +1 still You can still safejump in the corner by stopping a combo at 214B Her new combos are fun too. Dash buffering 5C for falling j.C>5C is a pain though.
Recommended Posts