BatousaiJ Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Do we have the moot now or is that still just that japanese website? CH 236D into 1 charge mugen still leads to 4k+ damage or so mid screen. I remember doing 236C CH > 5A > 5BB > 5CC > 6BB > 214A > 22B before against a crouching enemy but I could be remembering it wrong(ya, that works because it was in my latest video). I do remember clearly not being able to do 236C again after 6BB though as they will have time to recover and block it. 22D is still a good starter especially in the corner but obviously not as good as it was in CS 2. The 22D CH wall bounce thing is nice though and easy to hitconfirm into the proper combo because you have a bunch of time to recognize the wall bounce. 5B being slow and being -5 on block sounds about right but what I don't get is how Kuresu uses 5B charge cancel successfully to start his pressure successfully all the time. Edited January 12, 2012 by BatousaiJ
Kiba Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) CH 236D into 1 charge mugen still leads to 4k+ damage or so mid screen. That's all fine and dandy with mugen, but how much damage can she score without mugen midscreen from a CH 236D with one stock? I remember doing 236C CH > 5A > 5BB > 5CC > 6BB > 214A > 22B before against a crouching enemy but I could be remembering it wrong(ya, that works because it was in my latest video). Could just be that the player didn't use 6BB fast enough, but I could be wrong. I saw this in one of the vidoes PK uploaded a while a back. Wouldn't it be better if you did 236C CH - 5CC - stuff/5A - 5CC - stuff? Edited January 12, 2012 by Kiba
BatousaiJ Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Damn you Kiba, I was going to watch some ball games and now I'm booting up extend to get some precise data. 236D > dash 5C > 2C > 214D > 5C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2C > j.C >j.CC > j.236A > j.214C - 3137 damage 36 meter gain 236D CH > 6CC > 214D > 5C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2C > j.C > j.CC > j.236A > j.214C - 3688 damage 40 meter gain 236D air hit > dash 5C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2CC > 236C > 214C > 22C - 2723 damage 28 meter gain 236D starter is just fine, dude. It's not as good as CS 2's obviously but you can still get good things off of it. 236C CH > 5BB > 5CC > 6BB > 236C > 214C > 22C works just fine against crouching enemies as well. There are stuff you can do off 236C CH but in all honesty the damage differences are so minor between the variations, it doesn't really matter which one you go for unless you're adding charge usage to the mix in which case, 236C CH >5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214B > j.C > j.C > j.236D > j.214B > 6C > 236B > 214B > 22B is alright. It'll only do like 2.5k ish still but gains a nice 33 ish meter or so. Also, those first three combos I added can totally go in the combo thread if I haven't put them in there somewhere already, Audrina. Edited January 12, 2012 by BatousaiJ
pktazn Posted January 12, 2012 Author Posted January 12, 2012 There isn't a mook out yet iirc. shtkn said that he'd buy it again whenever it's released like he did with CS2 and he probably would have said something about translators if it was out already. Added the combos as well~
Daedron Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 5B being slow and being -5 on block sounds about right but what I don't get is how Kuresu uses 5B charge cancel successfully to start his pressure successfully all the time. Probably easier to say if we have frame data available, but charge cancelling a 5B is basically putting it at 0/-1 (We don't really know how much frame dis/advantage charge cancelling gives us), so I guess you can do 5B - charge cancel - dash 5B. Kinda like we used to in CS2 except it's slightly worse, might still be useful but who knows.
Airk Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Probably easier to say if we have frame data available, but charge cancelling a 5B is basically putting it at 0/-1 (We don't really know how much frame dis/advantage charge cancelling gives us), so I guess you can do 5B - charge cancel - dash 5B. Kinda like we used to in CS2 except it's slightly worse, might still be useful but who knows. Well, assuming it's still a level 3 attack (not a big assumption - most 5Bs are level 3. If they actually nerfed it to level 2, we're totally screwed.) and assuming that charge cancelling has the same recovery as CS2 (A much less safe assumption, but still one I'm willing to put out there.) then 5B CC is -2. (16 frames of blockstun, 18 frames of charge recovery.). If Charge Cancelling is faster or otherwise different in some way, that could be better. It's a lot better than letting it recover though and since we basically no longer have any safe specials, charge cancelling seems as good as it is going to get. Really curious to see the frame (dis)advantage on our less-tested moves like 5BB.
TheGreatReptar Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 5B-CC is definitely - on block. 5C/5CC look like they could very well be neutral on block, of maybe -1. Sometimes it looks like both characters are jumping at the same time while I'm testing, and other times it looks slightly minus. I don't however, see any difference between charge canceling with 5D or 2D, regardless of which move I'm using.
Errol Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 there was no diff between charge canceling with 5d or 2d in cs2 either.
Kiba Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Damn you Kiba, I was going to watch some ball games and now I'm booting up extend to get some precise data. Yea man, priorities. Lol. 236D > dash 5C > 2C > 214D > 5C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2C > j.C >j.CC > j.236A > j.214C - 3137 damage 36 meter gain 236D CH > 6CC > 214D > 5C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2C > j.C > j.CC > j.236A > j.214C - 3688 damage 40 meter gain 236D air hit > dash 5C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2CC > 236C > 214C > 22C - 2723 damage 28 meter gain Thanks for the combos Bat. Though your combos give me more questions to ask you. With the two first combos, you can take out the 5C after the 214D to get 5C - 2CC after the IAD J.CC? If so, that would much be my preferred combo as I would still have the pressure advantage. 236D starter is just fine, dude. It's not as good as CS 2's obviously but you can still get good things off of it. Good to know really. 236C CH >5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214B > j.C > j.C > j.236D > j.214B > 6C > 236B > 214B > 22B is alright. Can you omit 5BB to allow 6CC? Otherwise, 2B - 2CC is stronger right?
BatousaiJ Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Thanks for the combos Bat. Though your combos give me more questions to ask you. With the two first combos, you can take out the 5C after the 214D to get 5C - 2CC after the IAD J.CC? If so, that would much be my preferred combo as I would still have the pressure advantage. Can you omit 5BB to allow 6CC? Otherwise, 2B - 2CC is stronger right? Omitting 5C in those combos for just 2CC won't get you the 5C > 2CC > etc etc etc ender. If you go directly from 236D > 214D > 2CC > IAD, you can end it with 5C 2CC etc etc etc though. 236C CH > 5CC > 6CC doesn't work unfortunately and like I mentioned, you'd be hard pressed to do any real damage off 236C CH. Lastly, I have no idea what you mean by 2B - 2CC
Kiba Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Thanks for the clarification! 236C CH > 5CC > 6CC doesn't work unfortunately and like I mentioned, you'd be hard pressed to do any real damage off 236C CH. Lastly, I have no idea what you mean by 2B - 2CC 236C CH > 5CC > 623C > j.214B > j.C > j.C > j.236D > j.214B > 6CC> 236B > 214B > 22B I'm gonna assume this combo does not work, lol. Which is why I meant to ask if you could do this: 236C CH > 5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214B > j.C > j.C > j.236D > j.214B > 2B > 2CC> 236B > 214B > 22B Because 2B - 2CC is stronger than just doing 6C.
BatousaiJ Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Ya, you have to omit the second hit of 6CC to make it work.
Daedron Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) So I just got done playing with 6 people in a lobby using the Team battle system. EDIT: make that 5 people + myself... It's fun but a bit flawed in my opinion, it's fine in 2vs2. If the first match is W/L (team 1/team2) and the 2nd match is L/W (team1/team2) then it does an extra match between the two players that are left. However, in 3VS3, Those extra matches never happen and if the first 2 members of your team lose then there's NOTHING the 3rd can do, he can't go on and beat everyone on the other team all by himself for example. I guess some can see this as a flaw and some won't, I do see it as a flaw though and I honestly would have preferred an elimination type system. Edited January 13, 2012 by Daedron
Kiba Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Thanks Bat. That does sound fun Daedron, but at the same time, I guess we could just stick with 2v2s. I've always wanted 2v2s so this definately caters for me. On a side note, this is what I meant by 236D being more unsafe.
Airk Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 On a side note, this is what I meant by 236D being more unsafe. That's not nearly as blatant a problem as I was expecting, considering that Tsubaki very clearly tries to do a dash in reset there.
Errol Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 it's just at a disadvantage, it's still safe. backdash seems to be a common option. I'm sure I don't need to mention how it sucks that it's at such a disadvantage instead of a frame advantage.. mostly doesn't seem to be a safe way to get in with charge.. either you get a hit, or you're at a disadvantage. kinda seems like traditional rekka gameplay, because if you cancel into 214D or 22d, or both, you should be able to be punished because you're at extreme close range.
BatousaiJ Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 You'd be surprised how you can teach people just to just sit there and block after 236D by using 214D afterwards and you can teach people to block after 214D by using 22D. Mind games. We have a ton of flexibility in the timing of canceling on whiffed/hit/blocked moves and you're really doing yourself a disservice if you're not taking advantage of it and mixing it up. Essentially teaching your opponent to fear your options will make you more dangerous and allow you to use your charges more efficiently.
Errol Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 well yeah, that's why I said traditional rekka gameplay.. or well, very similar.
pktazn Posted January 14, 2012 Author Posted January 14, 2012 Just gonna drop this in here from the "Beginner Mode - The Blazblue Mechanics Discussion Show!" thread: Thoughts on Tsubaki at neutral, since as far as I can tell, every single one of her old neutral tools has been nerfed to heck? With regards to Tsubaki, is a lot more like a normal character in terms of spacing. I could write you a long winded response about it, but just trust me that between 5a/5b/22a combined with her move speed and anti-air game gives her plenty to work with when she has no install. When she has one install stocked, her options greatly increase to auto win levels vs some attacks; food for thought. Does what Xie said sound about right for those who have played Extendz?
BeaverDeity Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Does what Xie said sound about right for those who have played Extendz? Yep
Rhiya Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Does what Xie said sound about right for those who have played Extendz? No, just because he said "auto-win levels." Even with someone as good as Kuresu at the helm, nothing about Tsubaki is ever autowin.
Airk Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 No, just because he said "auto-win levels." Even with someone as good as Kuresu at the helm, nothing about Tsubaki is ever autowin. Well, he said "Auto win levels vs some attacks" which is... kinda demeaning, actually, because it basically means "Some of Tsubaki's D moves actually beat some moves by other people reliably!" as if that's in some way impressive. -_-
TheGreatReptar Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Ugh, I can't tell if Tsubaki's safejump off 214B just loses to Jayokou, or if I'm just timing the j.C poorly. Ivysaur was all "let's see if this safejump works" and kicked me in the face on Friday, and I haven't been able to have it work again Jayokou in training mode while trying to replicate it. The same recorded Tsubaki will successfully block Inferno Divider though, which is really strange considering they were both 7 frame moves in CS2. I'm confused. Edit: Nevermind, I was timing ID too late. Still can't get the safejump to work on either move though. Maybe it loses to 7 frame reversals D: Second edit: Seems like it'll work on 7 frame moves, but only when you use 6CC in the combo, rather than just 6C (since the opponent is higher when 214B hits, they emergency tech later). Edited January 16, 2012 by TheGreatReptar
Rhiya Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Isn't ID a 5f move? EDIT: Derp, that's air ID ground ID is 7f Edited January 16, 2012 by Dusk Thanatos
Kiba Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 I'm very unsure if anyone knows about this, but I should point something out. IIRC With 1 stock: Corner Throw - Mugen - 623D - j.236D - j.214D - 6CC doesn't work, but with 2 stocks, it does. So I guess having 2+ stocks before initiating mugen adds bonus proration for the whole combo.
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