BatousaiJ Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Really? I know you get bonus proration for using D moves while in Mugen mode, it shouldn't matter what numbers of charges of Mugen you activate at the start if you're using the same amount of D moves in there. I'll test it out later.
Errol Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 maybe the j236d-j214d doesn't complete DURING the mugen if you only have 1 bar, thus not giving the 110% bonus.
BatousaiJ Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Nah, I just did a quick test and I think I know what happened. The 6CC will only connect if you land the 623D sequence before he starts hitting the ground and starts to slide and you do the 2 hit variation of the 623D instead of 3 hits. Quite easy to do if you Mugen cancel immediately. Works with Mugen 2 charge or 1 all the same. So it would be Corner Throw > Mugen > 623D(2 hits) > j.236D > j.214D > 6CC > j.C > j.CC > j.236A > j.214C - 3759 damage. The damage is nice but it ends with an air combo which isn't particularly ideal. Still, good to know. Maybe canceling the throw with Mugen has the same kind of proration effect as Jin's throw RC where we can get some nice bonuses but it most likely isn't quite as lucrative. It's worth noting that I was able to get full 3 hits of 623D and manage to finish the combo anyway resulting in 3900 ish damage but I have no idea how to get that consistent while the 2 hit method with no sliding will work everytime. Edited January 16, 2012 by BatousaiJ
Kiba Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Ahhh I see Bat. Alright thanks! Also you don't have to end with the full air combo. Ending with j.C - j.236A - j.214C at least allows you to retain an air dash.
BatousaiJ Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Yup, that's always an option for anything involving the air combo ender. Oh and I actually like making sure I begin charging for a split second when I'm near to the ground and then dash in with j.B > j.C. It's very quick and if done correctly, they would be able to dash under you. The biggest annoyance with the jump dash ender is that even if you hit them with your air dashing attack, you won't be able to hitconfirm it once you land and it's usually through sheer ignorance that we can get away with using that in the first place because if you remember if you charge in the air, you will be left defenseless for a brief moment after you land. The same thing applies with air dash combo ender. However, the good thing is, if you have a charge available, you can actually use j.214D to hit them and land normally without any of that delayed timing and follow up with a meaty combo like so- Corner j.D > air dash j.CC > j.214D > 6CC > 236C > 5C > 2CC > 236C > 214B > 22B That's usually why I try not to use air dash ender unless I have an extra charge to expand for hit confirming properly or to make the landing safer on the off chance that my opponent actually knows the match up(which isn't usually the case so whatever XD). Edited January 16, 2012 by BatousaiJ
TheGreatReptar Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) So, the other day, I figured out that j.C can be used as a crossup similarly to how Ky can cross people up by running, jumping over the opponent's head, then airdashing back. It only works on a few characters though. Characters that j.C and j.CC can crossup on: Tager Bang Tsubaki Makoto Arakune (j.CC seems height specific. j.C less so) Valkenhayn Characters only j.CC can crossup: Rachel Relius (seems really height specific or something. Really hard to get it to work) Lambda (once again, really height specific) Neither crossup: Carl Mu Tao Litchi Jin Ragna Hazama Hakumen Noel Platinum As a disclaimer, I made this list in about 10 minutes. Feel free to try to get it to work on other characters. I did try several times on everyone at different heights to see if J.CC could work, but couldn't get it to. If either move can hit on anyone I said it couldn't, it's probably really really height specific. Edited January 17, 2012 by TheGreatReptar
BatousaiJ Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 j.C should cross over on everyone. You just have to work it into a block string off 6C or 2C.
TheGreatReptar Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Yea, I was testing solely for if you could make it cross up by jumping over them and then airdashing back. It was one of my favorite Ky mixups in Guilty Gear.
BatousaiJ Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Aha, gotcha. Also, don't forget IAD j.214D is a legit mix up that works on everyone as well and once you get the timing down, you can control which direction you'll be hitting them from. You can RC > dash 2B > 2CC or 236D to follow up that up for a full IAD combo.
TheGreatReptar Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 I know. I've been trying to get down the timing to where you don't need a second charge lately. The crossup j.C is nice for when you don't have charge though. It's just not as nice as in Guilty Gear since you can tech roll on wakeup so it's harder to set up.
Kiba Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I think this is more consistent on the opponent if they are crouching. Edited January 17, 2012 by Kiba
TheGreatReptar Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Do you mean the crossup j.214D>RC or crossup j.CC is more consistent on crouchers? Regardless, now I'm curious how j.CC fares on crouching opponents. I'll probably goof with that later.
Kiba Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Ah sorry, I meant the crossup j.C seems to be more consistent on crouchers. For instance, I tried it on Ragna/Jin when he was standing. It whiffed. I tried it on him while he was crouching and it hit.
TheGreatReptar Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 That's what I thought you meant. Just wasn't sure. Seems a little silly to do it on characters that have to be crouching though, seeing how long you're in the air before the move actually performing the move. o
BatousaiJ Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 I think this is more consistent on the opponent if they are couching. What setup are you using?
Kiba Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Seems a little silly to do it on characters that have to be crouching though, seeing how long you're in the air before the move actually performing the move. Agreed, which is why I find it impractical. I'd rather use 5B into j.C crossup rather than air dashing backwards and behind the opponent to connect j.C, as it's ambigious. What setup are you using? None. I just jumped behind the opponent and air dashed backwards in training mode. Edit: Tsubaki wiki is very much near done guys. Only the Mugen combos need to be updated. Edited January 19, 2012 by Kiba
TheGreatReptar Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 So, I've been thinking of trying to make a writeup on Tsubaki's neutral game, oki, confirms, pressure and stuff like that (and not really discuss combos outside of what enders lead to what oki). I was thinking I would divide it into two parts, for when you have charge and when you don't, and I'd post it as I got along so other people can give input. Thoughts? I know I'm not exactly making a name for myself at tournaments, but I was mostly considering just doing this as a pre-Final Round, my-back-hurts-too-much-to-play-right-now-because-I-sit-with-terrible-posture think to do to level up mentally.
Kiba Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 You should go for it. I'm definately interested in reading your write up. It'll be beneficial to all of us.
Airk Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Since my neutral game is pure garbage, anything that might help is welcome. :P It's almost humorous - I have relatively little trouble opening people up if I can get them to block, but getting them to block.... -_-
TheGreatReptar Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) I have trouble opening people up once I get in, which will probably be a large part of the writeup because of that. Whenever I play Ivysaur, it seems like 9/10 of my overheads get blocked/jabbed/thrown because I'm too predictable with them. The same goes with unblockables. =X I'll try to get started on it today. I'll keep the whole thing in an uneditable google document, and post the pieces as they come, and just link to the document each time. Edited January 19, 2012 by TheGreatReptar
Eshi Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 it's not that you're predictable with it [overhead], it's that you rely on it too much and being as slow as it is makes it very easy to react to or option select. use more frame traps and jabs and stuff to instill THE FEAR or just generally give people more than one thing to look out for. then you'll have an easier time landing it. you do get predictable with the unblockable though. There's lots of sneaking times to use it that I can show you.
TheGreatReptar Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 I suppose maybe that's more true now. Over the break and last summer though, I would almost always do 6A after 2B exclusively, so Geoffrey would just hit jab during 2B and beat it out like everytime.
pktazn Posted January 19, 2012 Author Posted January 19, 2012 Knock yourself out if you want to do a write-up. I'd be interested in reading it as well. To my knowledge, more information/ideas/thoughts has never really hurt anyone. :D
shad0whiei Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 I think its a great idea. I'm terrible at putting my ideas on paper XD. The thing that gets me most is that alot of opponents I get to play often mash. And I have a hard time working around that. Like lambda 5c spam after a knockdown ><. I need to learn to neutral tech and nit emergency tech all the time lol. Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Kiba Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 The thing that gets me most is that alot of opponents I get to play often mash. And I have a hard time working around that. Like lambda 5c spam after a knockdown ><. I need to learn to neutral tech and nit emergency tech all the time lol. You can beat mashers by frame trapping them. Delay gatlings such as 5BB and 5CC. In that case of Lambda, if you're close, you could opt to DP. Delaying techs will help alot too.
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