Airk Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 You mean after a 623X? I will not be too specific on the answer because Bat can clarify better than I can. AFAIK, you super cancel into Air Mugen from air normals only. So yup, you would have to do it after a j.C©. Unless my sanity has deserted me entirely, specials overall are almost never (Almost in there because the world is full of exceptions rather than because I can think of one) super cancellable.
shad0whiei Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 Unless my sanity has deserted me entirely, specials overall are almost never (Almost in there because the world is full of exceptions rather than because I can think of one) super cancellable. Is it sad this made me actually question it? Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
pktazn Posted January 26, 2012 Author Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Mmmmkay.... Just gonna drop these here: http://i.imgur.com/MuHP8.png http://i.imgur.com/CXbqd.jpg If you want the finer details for things just wait for Kayeff's translations. He's already working on them for all the characters. This means that when he's done with Tsubaki's he's done. He will probably make a new thread here like he has for the characters that he's finished so don't bug him for it please. EDIT: I hold the right to say that there may be mistakes in my "translations." Mainly which move is which even though I double-checked lol. Edited January 26, 2012 by pktazn
Kiba Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Ah that's cool. Thanks for that PK. Edit: Or wait. Lol. Edited January 26, 2012 by Kiba
BatousaiJ Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 I remember people saying there was a lot of mistakes in the moot this time around, were there anything in the Tsu section we should be aware of?
C0R Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 The images that Pk posted are corrected pages released in response to the outcry of errors, the new information is quite accurate.
BatousaiJ Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 The images that Pk posted are corrected pages released in response to the outcry of errors, the new information is quite accurate. Excellent.
NoelRin Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) More things negative on block for Tsubaki, lol. 2A now +/- 0F on block. 5B/5BB now -5F on block. 5C start up pretty damn fast, 8F. 5C now -9F on block. 6A now -9F on block. 214x series now -7F on block 22B/C now at -5F on block. 236x series even more negative on block now. Notable that 236D now -4F on block. Oh lordy. Edited January 27, 2012 by NoelRin
pktazn Posted January 26, 2012 Author Posted January 26, 2012 Ah that's cool. Thanks for that PK. Edit: Or wait. Lol. You wound me sir lol
Kiba Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) You wound me sir lol LOL. No please don't get the wrong idea. It will be done. I just remember that last time I placed EX frame data, something quite retarded happened to the values, in which case, I had to revert. I wouldn't want that happening again. We're better off waiting for it to be placed in the frame data section for a direct link right? Edited January 27, 2012 by Kiba
pktazn Posted January 27, 2012 Author Posted January 27, 2012 <3 Do you mean for the wiki? I can do that if you're having trouble since I had to do it for her CS2 page though they changed which values are shown for the Extend page. Or I can help you know what goes where It'd be easier to see the values that are in the Extend frame data table if we wait for it to be on here but it's not terribly hard.
BatousaiJ Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 The most shocking thing out of the whole thing to me is that 5B is now 10 frames instead of 9 frames like it was in CS 2. The way it feels, I thought it was like 8F in CS 2 and 11F in CSEX. 8F 5C means it's even faster than 5B was in CS 2 which is 1 F faster than I thought it was. It's most likely the extended recovery of 5B that was playing tricks on my perception but given that the recovery is a hefty 17 frames now from 13, you should be charge canceling after using it(for distance control) and also you can follow up a 5B CH > CC > dash 5A still even with the added recovery since the untechable time of a CH of 5B has increased from 19 to 24 which is significant. The frame data more or less validates my approach to the neutral game where I use 5A/5C/5B/2C in different scenarios but I think I'll do another thorough read of it when the english version comes out to see if I missed something of note.
Errol Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) untechable time shouldn't have anything to do with on the ground 5b ch hits, I think. I'd think that would just be hit level, because you can't tech after a 5b ch , unless they're in the air. The other thing with 5b is that it has 5 active frames instead of 3 active frames. So you have to look at the hitboxes, it might be that you don't actually have a hitbox at same spot as the old 5b until 2 frames after startup. Which means it might be like "12" frames startup? Just some guesses. also some minor tidbits, not necessarily changes: 623a: 9 frame invuln, 10 frame startup 623b: uh, same as before, 10-18? or something like that 623c: no invuln, p2 down 10 623d: 10 frame invuln, 10 frame startup 214a,b: 8-14 invuln, 17 startup for a, 22 startup for b 214c: 13-29 invuln, 30 startup 214d: 10-24 invuln, 22 startup Edited January 27, 2012 by Errol
C0R Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 Nearly every normal has unique CH properties in terms of hitstun. The untechable time listed is for normal air hit.
BatousaiJ Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 You might be right on the hitbox active change but I'm not entirely convinced just yet. However, good catch on the change of 5B's to 5 active frames from 3 as that actually makes it very good on catching most back dashes on wake up since many only have a few frames of invul after start up.
pktazn Posted January 27, 2012 Author Posted January 27, 2012 Something I noticed when slowly updating the tables for her specials on the wiki: I have a feeling that if there are parenthesis around a value for the D versions of her moves, those are the values for when you use the move during Mugen.
BatousaiJ Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 Ya, I was thinking the same thing. I can't imagine it being anything else, anyhow.
Airk Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 I'll do a thorough analysis of this stuff once the official translation comes out, and compile a list of CS2 > EX changes like I did for CS1 > CS2, but in the meantime, I was looking at 5BB - it's not any slower than it was in CS2, so it seems like the reason it's a frame trap is that Tsubaki's followup moves aren't "real" gatlings, per se, so you can't immediately cancel to them on hit/block. You have to wait until the followup window, which on 5B (at least in CS2) is after the active frames pass. So it's not that 5BB is slower, it's that you are "forced" to delay it more as a result of 5B's longer active frame window.
C0R Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 Something I noticed when slowly updating the tables for her specials on the wiki: I have a feeling that if there are parenthesis around a value for the D versions of her moves, those are the values for when you use the move during Mugen. Bang has similar notations for his drives having bonus base damage during FKRZ. I imagine you're correct in your conclusion.
BatousaiJ Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 Here's that 3CC tutorial thing I mentioned before.
Errol Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 Wow, nice vid, didn't think about using 3c like that.
shad0whiei Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 Nice. I did something close on cs2 quite often. Usually followed by a 6a but nice to see the other options Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Rhiya Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Here's that 3CC tutorial thing I mentioned before. I like how you say "smarter players will just block because 3CC has rape prorate," when actual smarter players will just look at your goddamn meter and know whether or not you can RC. It's a powerful option against tech rolls if you have meter, sure, but against neutral tech you're looking at a gimmicky crossup that costs 50 meter or a gimmicky crossup that people can prolly DP, reversal, or even mash for free. Edited January 29, 2012 by Dusk Thanatos
BatousaiJ Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 I like how you say "smarter players will just block because 3CC has rape prorate," when actual smarter players will just look at your goddamn meter and know whether or not you can RC. It's a powerful option against tech rolls if you have meter, sure, but against neutral tech you're looking at a gimmicky crossup that costs 50 meter or a gimmicky crossup that people can prolly DP, reversal, or even mash for free. Duh. And the rest of your comment isn't even worth replying to. I'll let you figure that shit out.
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