pktazn Posted July 3, 2012 Author Posted July 3, 2012 That. He explained it better than I ever could. Don't think I'll succeed in finding anything but it'll be fun to try. Ah why the hell not, I don't have that much to do anyway nowadays. Though I think TGR said it's hard for Tsu to benefit from it since all the moves have terrible proration to begin with. I don't mind being able to loop though haha.
Kiba Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 I would like to experiment with this but I failed. What I wanted to try was this: Corner 6CC > Gold burst x2 > Mugen > 236D x 10 > 22D > 5D > 3CC > RC > 5D > 5C > 2C > Whatever I was trying to double mugen combos with 214D but doing 22D > 5D (full charge) > Mugen > 623D is tricky (or impossible).
Errol Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 I thought it was 10 different moves. Which would be something 6CC>623D>j.236D>j.214D>236D>214D>22D>22B>22A>22C? We don't have enough moves to really do this unless partial/full charges of 22X count as different moves. Which I doubt, cuz then I'd think we'd have been doing 22ds in the middle of combos that start off of an unblockable 22d.
Kiba Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Maybe I'm just missing it, I'm usually not very good with these things. I'll let you guys handle this.
pktazn Posted July 4, 2012 Author Posted July 4, 2012 J says he already has one that he's going to include in his next combo movie.
BatousaiJ Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 Looking for some new/interesting mix up/reset setups. I've got j.bb and 236D extenders in the video so far. Any other good ones with 4 ish variations of it that I should look into?
BatousaiJ Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 No one has any other good scenarios for resets and etc? I think I might do the last one off of a high hit 236B > 214B etc unless I'm missing something obvious you guys can point out?
Kiba Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 Uh, well, I use 5A after a 22X knockdown in the corner. It's like the way Kuresu used 5C after 22X knockdown except 5A always works. The mixup only comes in if they tech. They'll be in the air if they tech, so you can go for a 2C air unblockable. If they begin to barrier block you can go for a 2B/6A/Unblockable/Air grab mixup. Not sure if you like. I also use 236D > RC > 5A/5C against opponents in the corner, where I still end up behind them. I'm not sure why that works though.
BatousaiJ Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 Uh, well, I use 5A after a 22X knockdown in the corner. It's like the way Kuresu used 5C after 22X knockdown except 5A always works. The mixup only comes in if they tech. They'll be in the air if they tech, so you can go for a 2C air unblockable. If they begin to barrier block you can go for a 2B/6A/Unblockable/Air grab mixup. Not sure if you like. I also use 236D > RC > 5A/5C against opponents in the corner, where I still end up behind them. I'm not sure why that works though. Ya I've messed around with the 5A(I like this better than 5C too) after knockdown in the corner but you're usually left at the range too close so they can A poke you after neutral tech if you're going for unblockble since they recover plenty fast. It seems to work best when you can lock them up into 2C right afterwards(hit or blocked) since you can combo off a meaty 2C© rather easily and even if they block you can just jc into more pressure. Can you elaborate on the 236D > RC > 5A/5C? I'm guess you fake switching sides with them with the RC and then hit them? Wouldn't that give them a lot of time to recover and see what side you're in before they start blocking? Other wise it would be a continuation since there's a good deal of hitstun after 236D. Thanks for the info though, it's good to have more stuff to think about- I'm running out of ideas for material that might be worth while >_<.
Kiba Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) Nah you don't fake switching sides, but here ya go. You could probably come up with something spiffy with that. I use it ocassionally and it works. Edited July 7, 2012 by Kiba
BatousaiJ Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 I see, so since 236D is - on block now, you just RC it really fast so you have switched sides on block and smack em before they realize. Not bad, the options off of it feel limited to immediate hits to be effective but I'll explore it to see if I can pull some more shenanigans from it.
BeaverDeity Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 Hmm well this is kind of a risky gimmick but I like to do (TK)2369C which I think is an overhead if you delay the input a bit but if you do it immediately you can cancel the falling frames and then do a low/green grab/6A/whatever. It's fairly slow though. There's also IAD crossup j.214D off of a jump cancellable move that I do sometimes. (Sorry if any of these were already mentioned but yeaaaaah)
Kiba Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 Hmm well this is kind of a risky gimmick but I like to do (TK)2369C which I think is an overhead if you delay the input a bit but if you do it immediately you can cancel the falling frames and then do a low/green grab/6A/whatever. It's fairly slow though. j.236C (TK236C) isn't an overhead unfortunately. I used to do that setup, it's soooo risky, especially if you go into 6A. I usually get thrown out of it.
BeaverDeity Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) j.236C (TK236C) isn't an overhead unfortunately. I used to do that setup, it's soooo risky, especially if you go into 6A. I usually get thrown out of it. Yeah lol It's really risky so I don't do it very much. Should've tested to see if it was an overhead before I said I thought it was one, now I look like a scrub haha. It's still fun to do though Edit: Oh and if I'm feeling extra stupidly wasteful (which I almost always am =w=) sometimes I rapid cancel right after a j.214C aerial combo ender and it puts you right next to them on the ground which sets you up for unblockable shenanigans or some weird oki. Just thought I'd mention it. Edited July 9, 2012 by BeaverDeity
Airk Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 My terrible reset that I do more than I should is 5BB > 5CC > 236D> 5BB > 3C© The number of people I catch standblocking me there is sortof astounding, actually. -_-
BatousaiJ Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 My terrible reset that I do more than I should is 5BB > 5CC > 236D> 5BB > 3C© The number of people I catch standblocking me there is sortof astounding, actually. -_- I'll have to test that to see how tight it is actually, I'm already using that 236D reset as part of the series so if this one is good, I might add it in. Thanks!
Airk Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) I'll have to test that to see how tight it is actually, I'm already using that 236D reset as part of the series so if this one is good, I might add it in. Thanks! It should be 1-2 frames tight if my math is right: 5B P1: .85 5B P2: .89 5BB P2: .89 5C P2: .89 5CC P2: 92 236D P2: .89 5B P2: .89 5BB P2: .89 All multiplied together gives ~.388 - and grounded hitstun doesn't start to fall apart until below 27%, and 5BB is level 3, so 17 frames hitstun to 3C's 18 frames startup. You should even be able to sneak in a dash 5A after the 236D to make sure you hit 3C on the first frame. Unrelated: does 5BB>3C combo on crouchers? It looks like it should if you're close enough? Yes, I just did proration math. Bring it on. Edited July 9, 2012 by Airk
Airk Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 tsubaki has char proration of like 70% too...? According to the Hitstun Decay section of the wiki: As a combo goes on and proration increases, the amount of hitstun the opponent receives drops. Hitstun duration is affected solely by four types of proration: Start Proration (P1), Proration Multiplier (P2), Same Move Proration, and Bonus Proration. When the combined calculated proration value of these goes below 27% (on the ground) or 37% (in the air), the hit-stun duration begin to drop. This means that when you add attacks that have lenient proration into your combo, it'll be easier to lengthen the combo with more attacks. No mention in there of character combo rate, so I don't think it factors in for hitstun decay purposes. If it DOES factor in, then you lose the ability to sneak in the dash 5A, but you should still be in the 1-2 frame gap area, at ever so slightly more than 27% damage.
Mcgreag Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 Correct Character Proration does not figure into hitstun decay which is why characters with high proratio like Hakumen and Tager can actually do combos at all.
Airk Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 whats the formula for this? sounds interesting It's in the section HERE labelled "Hitstun Decay"; it's basically a chart that shows you how many frames of untechable time/hitstun you lose depending on how prorated your combo is. I dunno how useful it is from any real practical standpoint unless you're trying to do lame math like I did here, but go to town if it's useful to you!
TD Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 it'll be interesting for the sake of learning l guess.. eh, i'll find a use for it. thank you
BatousaiJ Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 The use of 5BB > 3CC reset works the same way that 5BB > 6BB does it punishes people that like holding back or up back on during hitstun. You can also use max range 5B > 3CC as a way to punish people holding up back in the corner anticipating your max range 5B > 22D unblockable.
BatousaiJ Posted July 13, 2012 Posted July 13, 2012 On a sidenote but useful all the same, I've begun using 5B where I would use 5C in a combo extender scenario such as Corner Throw > 6CC > 236C > 5B > 2C > 236C > 214C > 22B This basically eliminate the need for you to time the 5C > 2C low enough that the 236C > 214C > 22B ender will connect. This works because 5B is slower than 5C and it doesn't launch as high as 5C. The timing for that isn't very hard to begin with but I noticed myself dropping it from time to time especially in laggy environments and having to correct myself by using 5C > 2C(too high for 236C) > j.CC > j.236A > j.214C which is alright and all but you give up the untechable time in the corner which can often times be very big. The 5B > 2C works the same in all other cases where you have the 5C > 2C > 236C > 214C > 22B ender. The video work is coming along and it's main theme is resets and interesting meter use for more damage/positional advantage. ETA is whenever it's done.
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