[CP1.1] Tsubaki Yayoi General - Gameplay Discussion

[RavenArchfiendX]

Like throw > 6CC or something?

[Kiba]

Welcome. This basic corner throw combo for instance:

Throw > 6CC > 236C > 5C > 2C > 236C > 214C > 22B

It leaves you with some options to throw out against your opponent as they wakeup, like, using an unblockable for example, or going for any sort of pressure. It puts you in an advantageous position, whereas throw > 6CC does not because 6CC has a lot of recovery, so you will not be able to move for a while.

PK I hope you don't mind but I'm gonna move these posts.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Kiba

[RavenArchfiendX]

Ah I see, thank you

[pktazn]

PK I hope you don't mind but I'm gonna move these posts.

Nah, I don't mind. I came back because I realized it was posted in the Loketest thread but since you already moved it, less work~ Thanks dude.

[Airk]

Ghetto technology! After a midscreen throw that carries to the corner with 236C>214C>22B, if you then 6C > 22D[hold] it will blow up people who neutral air tech. Sadly, forward tech and back tech pop them up higher and you'll whiff, though I think you're safe under most circumstances.

[TheGreatReptar]

Dude...there's gimmicks...and then there's 6C gimmicks. Don't torture yourself Airk. Don't make the same mistakes I did in CS2 (especially when you can just get 6A oki off any combo you can get 6C to combo anyway).

[Airk]

Dude...there's gimmicks...and then there's 6C gimmicks. Don't torture yourself Airk. Don't make the same mistakes I did in CS2 (especially when you can just get 6A oki off any combo you can get 6C to combo anyway).

Does that work after a throw? The 6C doesn't even connect all its hits as a legit combo, I don't think, so the proration is getting pretty tight.

That said, what do you do with people who don't emergency tech on the 6A? I dimly recall you saying something like a meaty 5B afterwards, but I could use a refresher. (You read stuff, but if you're not at a level to apply it yet, it doesn't sink in. >.>)

[Adam0812]

Are you talking 6a oki? If my opponent refuses to tech either an unblockable will hit or do 2b otg > 2cc > IAD > stuff

[Vosetri]

I've been trying to get kara throws in blockstrings, but haven't gotten it to work yet. I know the moves are 6C cancelable since that what comes out. but I never get the throw.

Just wanted to know if there is any reason why this shouldn't be able to work. I'd hate to find out I've been wasting my time.

[Errol]

You can't do that, though it's not clear exactly why you can't do that when you can do other similar things. But I imagine it should work off a jab, the only move that's both throw and 6c cancelable.

I just happened to be in here today for some reason. weird

[Airk]

I've been trying to get kara throws in blockstrings, but haven't gotten it to work yet. I know the moves are 6C cancelable since that what comes out. but I never get the throw.

Just wanted to know if there is any reason why this shouldn't be able to work. I'd hate to find out I've been wasting my time.

Yeah, for whatever reason, you can't kara cancel a 6C that you have gatlinged into, so in order to use a Kara Throw, you need to wait for whatever move you were using to completely finish, and then you can do a kara throw. =/

[TheGreatReptar]

If you think about what kara canceling actually is and why it exists, it's pretty easy to see why you can't chain into a move then kara cancel it. Kara canceling it just manipulating the game's input leniency for things that require multiple button presses (so you don't have to hit B+C on the exact same frame to throw, A+B on the same frame to barrier, etc). There isn't a need to have the leniency during a string, since you can't cancel into a throw or barrier anyway, so it just isn't there.

The kara's still really useful after a charge cancel though, especially when your opponent barrier blocks against you. It'll put you right back into range for the throw. Just remember that kara-throwing does take longer than a regular throw, since you have to add the startup frames of 6C that you use to move you forward before canceling into throw.

Edited November 5, 2012 by TheGreatReptar

[Vosetri]

Thanks, for the help on that one guys. I was in training mode grinding out Blockstrings and my Hit-confirms when I was wondering why I could just never get it working.

Another thing I wanted to know is, are there any better followup combos for a successful throw? As far as I could tell there was just the basic 236C - 214B - 22C.

[TheGreatReptar]

That's pretty much it. There's 2 midscreen variations you should probably know though:

Mid-screen, Valk, Tager, Rachel only: Throw>236C>214A>22B>236C>214B>22B (mostly for corner carry. Goes corner to corner. They can tech really quickly due to 236C and 22B SMP, so if you end up in the corner after the first 22B, stop it there)

Mid-screen, 1 charge: Throw>236D>dash>2CC>236C>214C>22B (use it for corner carry. The damage isn't worth the charge otherwise.)

Edited November 6, 2012 by TheGreatReptar

[Kiba]

Throw > 236C > 214B > 22B > 6C > 22B. The 6C > 22B/C will only work if you manage to get them to the corner, but that only gets the damage up to 1.9k lol.

TGR's 1 charge combo can be slightly optmised by using dash 5C > 2CC.

The wall carry Tsubaki's throw combos provide are amazing.

[Errol]

Yeah, I know the theory of how kara cancels work and came to a similar conclusion. The thing that brought me pause is this:

6C>Jump cancel> Jump cancel cancel via Special.

resulting in basically

6C>214D.

Really similar, but only one of these works. but the other thing I wondered was if a chained jab-> kara cancel throw works. Cuz you can cancel a jab into 6c, and you can cancel a jab into a throw. Somehow I don't feel like it would work, but I don't know. Although I don't think it would particularly have a point either, since it'd always be pink

[Vosetri]

Really similar, but only one of these works. but the other thing I wondered was if a chained jab-> kara cancel throw works. Cuz you can cancel a jab into 6c, and you can cancel a jab into a throw. Somehow I don't feel like it would work, but I don't know. Although I don't think it would particularly have a point either, since it'd always be pink

But even then if they tech the worse that happens is a reset to neutral, unless your in the corner.

Since I can't get to my PS3 at the moment does Throw -> 236C -> DP Whiff work? If it does can you still followup if you use a super jump?

[Airk]

On the subject of throw combos, I saw Kuresu do something interesting in one of the not-too-long ago videos where he did, going from my bad memory:

Throw > 236C (Reaches the corner) > 22B > 6C > stuff

Lemme see if I can find it, 'cause it seemed useful.

[TheGreatReptar]

It was probably just Throw>236C>22B>6C>236B>214A>22B for meter build.

[Adam0812]

Tbh alot of tsu's combo variants are splitting hairs in terms of additional damage and meter. So mostly just go with what you feel comfortable doing and try end with 22b if it hasn't been used in the combo already for best knockdown.

The one combo that I feel is very strong due to the additional damage, corner carry, meter and for me most importantly the reset potential is the j.BBC loop. Took me a while to learn but once you get it down you can literally reset weaker players to death by throwing 5a's, 2b or 6a when u land or do j.B > delay > air dash > more pressure. Learn it, live it, love it

[Vosetri]

I think I had seen videos of j.BBC used in matches but I thought it comboed. Or did you mean to intentionally delay for resets?

[TheGreatReptar]

It combos. A good variation of it to learn is 236D>dash>5C>j.BBC>land>dash>5C>j.BBC>5CC>2C>236C>22B. If you try to go for a third rep of j.BBC, it will drop at the j.C, and there's a variety of resets of you can do off of it, or you can drop is earlier by replacing a 5C with a 5A for tick throw, or 6A/2B like Adam said. I've found some trickier resets involving like dash>5C>neutral jump j.C>j.236C>j.214D too.

Too bad j.BBC loops don't work on Noel, Carl, Platinum, and the timing is really wacky on some characters like Makoto

[Airk]

It combos. A good variation of it to learn is 236D>dash>5C>j.BBC>land>dash>5C>j.BBC>5CC>2C>236C>22B. If you try to go for a third rep of j.BBC, it will drop at the j.C, and there's a variety of resets of you can do off of it, or you can drop is earlier by replacing a 5C with a 5A for tick throw, or 6A/2B like Adam said. I've found some trickier resets involving like dash>5C>neutral jump j.C>j.236C>j.214D too.

Too bad j.BBC loops don't work on Noel, Carl, Platinum, and the timing is really wacky on some characters like Makoto

Kuresu also did some awesome reset nonsense with this where he did like j.BB > j.A and it crossed up. The whole thing is super tricky (not difficult, but "full of tricks") and definitely seems worth learning. It's on my personal 'short list' for stuff to get to real soon now.

[TheGreatReptar]

He did a lot of that in that FT10 he had with that Ragna, but it's mostly just gimmicks. After the Ragna had seen the j.A side-switch gimmick, he caught on and it stopped working. The best real mixups Tsubaki gets off of the j.BBC loops are doing j.C>j.CC/2B or j.C>land>dash>5A>throw/6A/2B. Anything else is really hard to actually get a second outcome with.

[Kiba]

Since I can't get to my PS3 at the moment does Throw -> 236C -> DP Whiff work? If it does can you still followup if you use a super jump?

Nope.