Errol Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 Yea, but the chances of that are close to zero since projectile invulnerability is most of the point of 46D>236D. and they removed projectile invuln from 214D. It's make no sense to put it on 236D. The onlyyyyy thing I could remotely see is if 236D has foot invulnerability... but no way. There's probably been a video to prove that wrong anyway.
Mightfo Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKEgkmbxFn0&t=22s Is it just the quality of the video or did Tsubaki go through Tao's bowling ball? http://i.imgur.com/SFk9OIT.jpg There was no projectile invulnerability circle, strange hitboxes....
pktazn Posted February 1, 2013 Author Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) Unless they changed the hitbox properties from Extend, Tao's bowling ball has a hitbox the second it's out. The only time you can avoid it is if you're up in Tao's face, any further and you'll get hit by it. So maybe there is some kind of invulnerability? J/k mightfo got the screenshot~ I mean it could easily be something different but that bowling ball is right on her head EDIT: Tested in Extend, and if you try to replicate what happened Tsubaki will get hit out of it every time with the bowling ball where it is. Edited February 1, 2013 by pktazn
Surf Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 and they removed projectile invuln from 214D. It's make no sense to put it on 236D. It still has upper body though right And this this whole thing is weird. Maybe it is invul somehow
C0R Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 "calculations"? Arcadia hires a team to test and calculate the game's frame data, the compilation of these third party findings are the source for the mook's frame data. Arcsys doesn't ever release actual framedata, it always comes from outside source's research.
Errol Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 It still has upper body though right And this this whole thing is weird. Maybe it is invul somehow I thought I said this before but no. 214X has no head invuln in CP, it only has body invuln.
Surf Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 I had a feeling it was, just making sure. Well body is still something, i guess
Airk Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 Arcadia hires a team to test and calculate the game's frame data, the compilation of these third party findings are the source for the mook's frame data. Arcsys doesn't ever release actual framedata, it always comes from outside source's research. That explains why it's so often wrong or incomplete. =/ Damnit Arc Sys.
C0R Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 The majority of the information is normally pretty accurate, but it is well known to contain more than a few errors in the first/second editions. Most of the information is obtained via frame playback analysis, so it does provide insight to things we'd not be able to find normally, such as activr frames and untechable time.
Mightfo Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 That explains why it's so often wrong or incomplete. =/ Damnit Arc Sys. even skullgirls didnt have official frame data put out despite community connections. it seems like no companies put out official frame data, american or japanese, big or small. i really wonder why..
Airk Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 even skullgirls didnt have official frame data put out despite community connections. it seems like no companies put out official frame data, american or japanese, big or small. i really wonder why.. This is really strange; I know I've heard of games having frame data even INCLUDED, but I can't remember what game it was. Maybe it was DOA5? Certainly, their patch notes were SUPER SPECIFIC down to frames ala "66P: changed startup from 18 to 16F." But apparently this stuff is still far from the norm. Well, as C0R says, it still gets us a lot of stuff we wouldn't have otherwise, and it is generally MOSTLY right, but I'm going to be less surprised in the future when I find something that obviously doesn't add up.
Fluck Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 I had a feeling it was, just making sure. Well body is still something, i guess Actually, I don't see how this is possible cause nearly all moves that have body property have head property too. Did they change move properties in CP? If they didn't then 214X is pretty worthless.
Daedron Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 Worthless moves you say? If Tsubaki didn't have a moveset that consisted of at a minimum 50% combo fodder moves, she wouldn't be Tsubaki. Balance.
Errol Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 I think they did remove Head property from lots of moves. It was kind of silly if you think about it. there was no way to make a move immune to ground moves but not air moves basically. Of course the result isn't good for us or for Noel.
Daedron Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 Even more confusing is that 214D only having body invul is worthless if we go by Extend's move properties; no move has just body attribute as far as I know, it's always body & head/feet. I guess every single ground move that's now listed as "HeadBody" is just "Body" in CP so for beating out ground moves, it will be the same as in Extend. Guess we'll need to be more careful using it to not get hit out of it against jumpy people :V
Mightfo Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 This is really strange; I know I've heard of games having frame data even INCLUDED, but I can't remember what game it was. Maybe it was DOA5? Certainly, their patch notes were SUPER SPECIFIC down to frames ala "66P: changed startup from 18 to 16F." But apparently this stuff is still far from the norm. oh, that's right, vf5 and doa5 both have in-game frame data in training mode, although doa5's was 1f off across the board with regards to startup or something Actually, I don't see how this is possible cause nearly all moves that have body property have head property too. Did they change move properties in CP? If they didn't then 214X is pretty worthless. azrael 6a or something(shoulder/back attack) is apparently body prop invuln only
mAc Chaos Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 The majority of the information is normally pretty accurate, but it is well known to contain more than a few errors in the first/second editions. Most of the information is obtained via frame playback analysis, so it does provide insight to things we'd not be able to find normally, such as activr frames and untechable time. I wonder if they hire them because the company doesn't have the frame data itself? Like, they don't even care to know. But then how do they even balance these things.
Airk Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 I wonder if they hire them because the company doesn't have the frame data itself? Like, they don't even care to know. But then how do they even balance these things. My brain hurts from trying to imagine how they would even set up the game in such a way as to not know the frame data. I mean, they might not have it in a tidy chart, but they HAVE to somehow set, for example, how many active frames a move has. That might not cascade all the way down to like, "how plus is this on block?" because that's basically math applied to other stuff, but still, given the base data and the appropriate formulas, you'd think it's be much easier to calculate the stuff than it would be to count frames via camera or however they do it. Interesting to hear about the changes to head property - that really DOES make sense though. No good reason for ground moves to have it. OTOH, it would've been nice if they'd left the invulnerability on 214D, at least. =/
Errol Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8_dEzbr6t0&feature=youtu.be&t=11m53s #RIP
Daedron Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 I wouldn't say that, at first glance it definitely looked like she wasn't even 7 frames into the move. Well, only frame data will tell...or someone go download that video and play it back frame by frame I guess.
Mightfo Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 it looks like she gets hit somewhere in frames 7-9 of 2c.
Errol Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcse/hitbox/tsubaki/2C.html I noticed that she was in the last animation before the hitbox. But Mightfo's 7-9 estimate is probably right and that wouldn't have gotten hit in EX. Maybe it's not RIP-level but there you go. Been digging on twitter for numbers. Notes: Mu 2c does still have head invuln, but less. Has more active frames. Mu 6a is very good. Nu probably is too.. Tager 2c and atomic collider do still have head invuln, but less. Total invuln on 2c is apparently 2 frames though. Noel/Taokaka head invuln is unchanged. Tsubaki head invuln -> 8f. Active frames 5->2. I misinterpreted something earlier. It's not that you only have 2f to followup, it's that there ar eonly 2 active frames. Litchi head invuln on that new move -> 9f-19f. startup 17f. 3 active frames. Jins 2c -> buffed a lot. Don't know numbers. Bang 3c has head invincibility. 10f->21f Ragna 6a -> 4f izayoi 6c -> 9 or 10f Amane 6a > 5f Edited February 3, 2013 by Errol
Daedron Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 So it got a 1 frame nerf on the invis then, in that case I guess she was on frame 7 in the video :V And did Ragna's 6A REALLY need a buff? Meh, it's Ragna I guess.
Mightfo Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) stuff Thanks for the info! Did the litchi info specfiy whether those numbers were for 4b[m] or 4b[e]? It seems like [e] might be a little faster but im not sure. So it got a 1 frame nerf on the invis then, in that case I guess she was on frame 7 in the video :V And did Ragna's 6A REALLY need a buff? Meh, it's Ragna I guess. it also lost gatlings, it is only special cancelable on block now Edited February 2, 2013 by Mightfo
Recommended Posts