Surf Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 Bang 3c has head invincibility. 10f->21f izayoi 6c -> 9 or 10f How do these two even make sense
Errol Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) Thanks for the info! Did the litchi info specfiy whether those numbers were for 4b[m] or 4b[e]? It seems like [e] might be a little faster but im not sure. from kikuchiyo アルカディア曰くライチ棒4B無敵発生9F~19F 発生17F持続3F んであのリーチと受け身不能時間でしょ そりゃつえーよ 素手の性能も気になるけど頭無敵があるのは間違いないから大体似たような性能なんだろう 素手４Bの受け身不能時間が気になる 対空した時は受け身取れないっぽ？ 4b[e] is unarmed right. 4b[m], invincible from 9f to 19f. Startup 17f, 3 active frames. And that reach and untechable time? That's strong. I'm curious how it is without the staff too, but it definitely has head invincibility so it's probably very similar. Also the untechable time of it. As an anti-air it doesn't seem feel like they can tech? (I'm not sure on this part, I don't know the japanese terms for tech stuff. it's ukemi) and then speculation between galileo and kikuchiyo went like.. Galileo likes 4b[e] better, think it is faster and the head invuln is also probably faster, and the recovery is definitely less. Kiku likes the staff version because of the reach, and hasn't figured out combos off 4b[e] yet. then Galileo posted some combos from like 2250-2500 damage. Is there a 4b(1) or something? He said that a lot of matchups became easy because of it. Edited February 2, 2013 by Errol
Daedron Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 it also lost gatlings, it is only special cancelable on block now Ah, that's alright then ;p
Errol Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 kazu CP Tsubaki's 2C, active frames are so short this is impossible. Should probably just use 623C is my conclusion kuresu Yeah. Kuresu was asking people to play his Jin in EX so he can get used to him
Zouf Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) kazu CP Tsubaki's 2C, active frames are so short this is impossible. Should probably just use 623C is my conclusion kuresu Yeah. Kuresu was asking people to play his Jin in EX so he can get used to him I died a little inside. Why do they hate tsubaki so much at arcsys. I wouldn't use 623C as an anti air really. It's unsafe and doesn't allow a combo (except on CH obvs, but the combo is shit anyway) So what do we have for anti air now? Edited February 4, 2013 by Zouf
Vosetri Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 Obviously we are supposed to win with jab only.
Kiba Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) So what do we have for anti air now? 2C is still gonna be the normal we use for AAs because of its reliability. 5A/5B can be used but their usefulness is inconsistent and too specific. Not to mention they have no invincibility. Edited February 4, 2013 by Kiba
Airk Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 2C is still gonna be the normal we use for AAs because of its reliability. 5A/5B can be used but their usefulness is inconsistent and too specific. Not to mention they have no invincibility. Why would you ever use 5A as an anti air? 2A I can see because you have a chance of low profiling an early air attack, and 5B has some forward extension, but 5A? but yeah, 2C still seems mostly okay. On the list of nerfs, this one, while perhaps no more explicable than any of them, doesn't seem particularly painful. Speaking of "nerfs" does anyone know why no one does 236D side-switch combos in CP? I've seen a LOT of videos where Tsubaki has her back to the corner and a charge in the bank, but the player chooses to do a zero charge ground combo instead of switching things around via the old 5BB > 5CC > 236D > stuff combo. I've seen it done ONCE, that I can recall, so it seems like the combo still WORKS... maybe it doesn't allow a full ender? But since you don't (I don't think?) need to do 236 > 214 > 22 for knockdown, just 214 > 22, it should be possible? I am confused.
TheGreatReptar Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 Japanese players just suck. You never see them mash Mugen on wakeup either.
Surf Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 He was just using it as an example Airk. And Ive 5A'd someone out of the air like... 2-3 times before. All of them were by accident
Airk Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 Japanese players just suck. You never see them mash Mugen on wakeup either. ... It was an honest question. Not a "WTF, why don't they do this when it's obviously so good?" but more a "Is there some reason why it would be preferable to make the decision they are making, because I don't understand why it seems like they are making the inferior choice." I'm sure there's a good reason, but I don't know what it is. -_-
Errol Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 2c doesn't sound reliable in CP. That is all. DP or go home. 236D has slower startup in CP, so I think the cases where it connects are more limited.
Errol Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 I thought everyone loved playing people who constantly mash DP. It even seems to be roughly safe if you make them block one high in the air.
Airk Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 2c doesn't sound reliable in CP. That is all. DP or go home. If it's that unreliable, why did it take us so long to get a video of someone beating it out? Even if the head invulnerability starts up a couple of frames later, it's still pretty solid? 236D has slower startup in CP, so I think the cases where it connects are more limited. Oh, that would make sense. Fffff.
Surf Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 We're going overboard with 2C. As I said before, if it was truly that bad we would have heard and seen evidence of this a long time ago. Not 2 and a half months after the game is out. 2C is your anti air. What else really needs to be said. This really shouldnt be dragging on like it is
Errol Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) Probably true. But even subtle stuff can hve a big effect. I doubt if Makoto players really understood why things were so much worse after CS2 till they saw the hitbox nerfs to all of her moves. The people I follow on twitter are complaining about it too is all. Then the only other thing I have to say is that the video I posted was the first video I watched after learning about 2c stuff. but then, I'm sure it's still pretty good, it has a nice hitbox and it recovers fast. Edited February 4, 2013 by Errol
StarGazer Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 Hitbox changes had only a slight effect on Makoto's 2A and j.2C (Which no one use anyway).
Errol Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 Fair enough, thought it might affect her 5b too.
Kiba Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 Added the charge cancel frame advantage list + information that Surf cooked up to the wiki.
Surf Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 Added the charge cancel frame advantage list + information that Surf cooked up to the wiki. Thanks Kiba, feels good to help out
Airk Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 Added the charge cancel frame advantage list + information that Surf cooked up to the wiki. I'ma gonna go sulk, since I worked all that out when the Extend Mook first came out, but nobody cared.
Surf Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 If I knew someone did them before I wouldn't have done them. Since I just started posting like.... a little after CP was announced. I never saw them
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