Henaki Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 reaver telling people to ignore Blade. The universe has completed itself folks.
M.Song Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 so anyone find any responses about the 1.01 location test?
Blade Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 Wait, what? How would anyone conclude that a faster game means easier blocking in the first place? Nobody reads what I say...I said BlazBlue is slower therefore it's easy to react on block...GG is faster so it would be more difficult to react. Seriously shut up about me, you guys.
Teyah Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) So while catching up on match vids I couldn't help but notice that a bunch of overheads seemed slower, so I went back and re-watched them in slow motion. Here's what I found (with timestamps included if you want to see): Ky 5D: 23F -> 27F, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5l6jo5fM5E#t=24m31s May 5D: 26F -> 29F, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5l6jo5fM5E#t=22m47s May Jackhound: Still 24F/32F OTG, no change, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5l6jo5fM5E#t=34m16s Millia TKBM: Still 16F, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg8AMQqpSg8#t=1m42s Millia 6K: Still 20F to hit crouching, can be seen clearly at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg8AMQqpSg8#t=4m20s Potemkin 6K: 19F; probably the same as AC (18F), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cOy4hXIs5A#t=10m48s Axl 6H: 23F -> 27F, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNXN46jC8V4#t=2m6s Axl 5D: 26F -> 29F. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNXN46jC8V4#t=1m31s Faust 5D: 26F -> 29F, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EHn7wUeE9c#t=14m51s Slayer 5D: 22F -> 25F, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5l6jo5fM5E#t=25m48s Anji 3P: 20F -> 23F, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5l6jo5fM5E#t=34m13s Bridget 6K: 23F -> 26F, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5l6jo5fM5E#t=42m45s Order-Sol 2H: Still 23F, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg8AMQqpSg8#t=1m25s Kliff 5D: 22F -> 27F, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNXN46jC8V4#t=5m45s - The reason this move seems so fast is that most of the startup is him crouching down which is practically indistinguishable from his normal crouching stance. I guess it's worth noting that most of the overheads in these examples that actually hit, were the ones that weren't slowed down. Just a note that the numbers given are ballpark figures to see overall speed changes. Since the videos are in 30 fps the frame counts could be +1 or -1 of what I've listed but not more than that, but the more likely result is what I've listed. It's reassuring that they let characters like Millia and Pot keep their close up unreactable mixups by not slowing down their moves, which would have also messed with oki timings/setups as well (for Millia especially). And because of the extra input delay due to LCDs/green bar netcode/other factors, on the slim chance that people were consistently blocking these mixups on reaction before, they definitely will not be doing so now. Also, obligatory pat on the back for predicting this many months ago! Hooray, changes! It's a good bet that Arcsys noticed that the game would become an unreactable overhead fest when played with the extra input lag on PS3/360/TaitoX2 + LCD compared to PS2/Naomi + CRT, so they're making some much needed changes. I fully expect to see standard reactable overheads (dusts, command normals, overhead specials) to be slowed down by like 5 frames or more in order to accommodate for the current lag generation of consoles + displays. Judging from the initial video, Ky's new FB Greed Sever is 28 frames which is a whole 10 frames slower than the standard AC Greed Sever. Expecting to see more of this. Edited October 13, 2012 by Teyah
doragonkoroshi Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 ^I was afraid of this, but I thought it would be much worse, so no big deal I guess? Games still looks great. Blade: so even if GG is faster, that doesn't make it any easier to cope with mixups. What are we supposed to imply from this? A child on the playground might say something like "just because your mommy's a teacher doesn't mean you can boss me around" or something. Here we imagine that the child whose mother is a teacher has mistakenly assumed his mother's authority carries over to him, but the other child has been quick to point out that this is not the case. Now if we apply this same line of reasoning to your similarly structured phrase, it reads as if one might normally assume that a faster game makes mixups easier to deal with, but in reality they are not. Of course I agree that mixups are harder to deal with the faster the game is, but the problem is the way that phrase reads, it's saying that faster games make it easier to react to mixups, but GG is an exception to the rule.
Darlos9D Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 Well I guess as long as the whole game hasn't been slowed down. I always preferred GG's overall pace. Of course with BB getting faster... oh I dunno.
Silmerion Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 Doesn't look like the game's been slowed down, thankfully. Overheads being slower kind of sucks, but it's not like they were massive decrements.
Henaki Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 The only slowed down overhead I dislike is Ky's. He deserves to have a fast but shitty damage overhead with long range. Fits him well. I guess Arcsys just took whatever overheads were almost unreactable and didn't care, but took the typically reacted to overheads and slowed them down, but whatever. To me, the choice is questionable, but I can see why it was done and it's not going to be a huge hindrance.
Kyosuke Kagami Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 Greed Sever looks #R slow now. Not a surprise for me.
ElvenShadow Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 The game doesn't feel slow at all. I think everyone will be pleased after playing it
Mightfo Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) since when is 23f not reactable in modern games with their input lag, i don't understand why such moves would be made slower doesn't matter that much to overall mixup in the game but overheads being slower than most of the ones in bb is baffling especially when the rest of the mixup is still, you know, gg mixup Edited October 14, 2012 by Mightfo
Kurushii Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 Typical human reaction time is approximately 150 to 300 milliseconds, so 9 to 18 frames. Anything faster than like 13 frames or so is kind-of pushing it on the average human speed. Course reaction time does get slower as you age. We all know how old grandpa Circ and the others are getting. :3
Henaki Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 23f on a character with a standing low and a similar startup animation to other moves probably makes an overheard harder to react to than one thats 20 frames and has a really obvious and different animation with no standing low on that character fyi. dont think frames in an overhead are the only important thing. reaction time is based off seeing rapid shape and color movement, then nuance. not to say 23f overheads are unreactable.
Teyah Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 since when is 23f not reactable in modern games with their input lag, i don't understand why such moves would be made slower doesn't matter that much to overall mixup in the game but overheads being slower than most of the ones in bb is baffling especially when the rest of the mixup is still, you know, gg mixup
jinbe Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 http://www.norematch.com/2012/10/14/ggxx-acr-in-nov-2012-arcadia-and-ver-1-01-loketests/ dat taihar list !!!
ElvenShadow Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 That's funny. I just talked to Ogawa today about tiers. After I won a game vs his Eddie, he came over and started saying how he thinks Faust is like A tier and that Eddie is garbage. He also said he thinks Zappa and Chipp are S tier. Of course these are just his opinions. I Haven't seen the new Arcadia btw.
zdravkelja Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 Faust really looks good, I would put him in A too. Eddie is definitelly not garbage, solid A I think. But I'm in no means qualified to say anything :P I didn't expect Slayer in S. Justice higher than I thought, but I haven't really watched her, too boring.
RoBoBOBR Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 S+ Kliff, Zappa S Millia, Faust A+ Chipp, Axl, Dizzy, Eddie, Jam, I-no, Order-Sol A Ky, Anji, Venom, Slayer, Robo-Ky, Bridget B+ Johnny, Potemkin, Baiken, A.B.A, Testament, Sol, May B Justice Jap wiki tiers look more relevant to game i see in videos. Sl in S? Yeah, right.
Kyosuke Kagami Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 IMO Justice should have her projectiles NOT removed when hit. She'd be a bit better with that.
ElvenShadow Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 I would think Johnny should be higher. Not top but better than B...
reaVer Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 What did exactly change for Johnny? As far as I can see his execution got easier and that about covers it. Also, why does Zappa got a top tier spot? And what is arc sys planning to do about Kliff?
Kyosuke Kagami Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 "What did exactly change for Johnny? As far as I can see his execution got easier and that about covers it." Did you really want something more?
Blade Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 This is true for twitch reaction times - like reacting to visually jarring flashes of light. This doesn't apply to fighting games. Choice reaction time, which is what does apply, relates to being able to identify subtle visual changes from a large variety of potential options and react accordingly, and typically range from 300-400 ms (18-24F) in humans. Where do you guys even get this information? And how would you compare it to most normals or anything else in Guilty Gear? For example, Slashback. What kind of efforts are we looking at here? Or does it all come down to physical memory and remembering how someone plays?
zdravkelja Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 More mist setups, faster MCs, new coin. I also thought he would be higher.
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