[P4A] Naoto Shirogane - Gameplay Discussion "Ace Detective"

[The_Crazyasian]

After watching this set I just got really sad. It was godlike to see Denpa play a FT10 but it sucks to watch Naoto try and deal with Yu's oki. The fact that Naoto is made out of paper doesn't help either D:

[KreativeMente]

Yu's mixup game is ridiculous

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[Rikir]

Wow did you see that one Naoto reset at 11:28 in the first video? Awessomeeeee.

[Kyle]

Good Games to xAJxKiller. THX for the 10-set. Connection was slow, but I was happy to get matches against other Naoto's. Damn my 44, 2[C] kept missing.

GG's

[Zeromus_X]

Amazing vids with Denpa. I jotted down some of the combos and setups he used in the videos for future reference, lots of tricks to take note of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8eG6ZBCxN8#t=3m6s

214D > 5C > IAD jA > jC > 5C > 236A~B(1) > OMB > 2[C] > 5B > 236A+B > 236B~[D]x11 (8.5k dmg, 25% meter and 1 burst)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8eG6ZBCxN8#t=5m39s

Throw > Mudoon > 214C > 214D > 236A~B(1)~D > 2A > 5B > 5C > 236B~D x?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8eG6ZBCxN8#t=11m16s

214C hits > 5C > 236B~D > 5C > 214A~Cx5 > Mudoon > 214D > 2B > 5C > 236A~D (214D hits) > 2[C] > 5C > IAD > jB > jC > 214D (airthrow reset) (5.4k, 50% meter, need 33 meter to start)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8eG6ZBCxN8#t=13m1s

jC > 5B > 5C > 2C > Mudoon > 214D > 236A~B(1)~D > 2A > 5B > 5C > 236B~[D]x9 (6.4k)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8eG6ZBCxN8#t=14m53s

5D~D air CH (1st two hits) > dash 5B > 5C > 236B~Cx5 > Mudoon > ???

Even Denpa was like "yo, this hitconfirm is too hot for me"

www.youtube.com/watch?v=daad7eh7-Jk#t=6m

Trap hit > 5C > IAD > jB > jC > OMB > 2[C] > dash 5C > IAD > jB > jC > dash 5C > 236B~D > dash 5C > 236A+B... (2.4k, 25% meter and 1 burst)

Did 2.4k but Yu was in Awakening, ending with ...236A+B~Cx5 does about 4.7k. Could be worth the burst to get the kill if you get a trap hit later in the round.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=daad7eh7-Jk#t=7m29s

214D hits > dash 2[C]> dash 5C > IAD > jB > jC > Mudoon > 214C > 5AA > 236A+B~D > 5C > 236B~D xn? (4.8k before Yu bursted)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPRj9t5jwRM#t=2m20s

Love this fuzzy guard setup, jC (blocked) > land > jumping jAAAA, and it looks like you can actually get a small loop off of it. I think Denpa OMB'd either to bait Yu's burst, or just squeeze out the last bit of damage to threaten a kill since the combo was scaled so harshly from 4 jAs.

jA > jA > jA > jA > jB > 5B > 2C > Mudoon > 214C > 214D > 236A~B(1)~D > 5C > 236B~[D]x3 > OMB > 2[C] > 5C >... (3.3k before Yu bursted)

EDIT: So it looks like you CAN do a SMP loop off a fuzzy guard, albeit a prorated one. 236B~[D]x6 > 236A~D nets 4,355 damage. Also the fuzzy guard seems character specific, obviously it works on Yu but I couldn't get it to work on Yosuke for example.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPRj9t5jwRM#t=3m

(trap nearby) Airthrow > 214D hits > dash 2[C] > dash 5C > IAD > jB > jC > dash 5B > 236B~D > 5C > 236A~D (3.9k)

Nice meterless airthrow confirm with a 214D nearby.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPRj9t5jwRM#t=12m28s

236B~D FC > 2A > 2B > 5C > 2[C] > 5B > jD > j214C+D > falling jB (j214C hits) > land 5C > 236A~D (214D hits) > ... (4.9k, 25% meter)

Very stylin', possible to go into loop with only 25 meter off an FC?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPtGHs01swo#t=7m35s

(corner) 214D > 5C > 236B~D > 5C > 214A~Cx5 > Mudoon > 214C > 5D > (214C hits) > 236A~D (5D~D hits) > 5C > 236A+B (6k, 75% meter)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPtGHs01swo#t=8m8s

(with D trap nearby) 5A (anti-air CH) > 236A~D (214D hits) > dashunder 2[C] > dash 5C > IAD jB > jC > 5C > 236B~D > dash 5C > 236A~D (3.1k)

Edited September 12, 2012 by Zeromus_X

[Ichipoo]

What makes Denpa an extraordinary Naoto player is that he can convert into an optimal combo off of almost any hit, which is especially important for Naoto since I don't think she can last long if we keep giving the opponent multiple chances to run it back due to the player only converting into easy Fate reducing combos.

[rochus]

Amazing vids with Denpa. I jotted down some of the combos and setups he used in the videos for future reference, lots of tricks to take note of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8eG6ZBCxN8#t=3m6s

214D > 5C > IAD jA > jC > 5C > 236A > OMB > 2[C] > 236A+B > 236B~[D]x11 (8.5k dmg, 25% meter and 1 burst)

This one needs one more hit to smp. Denpa uses one b shot after the first 236a (before the omb), that ish cray. There is also a 5b after the 2[C] (before the 236A+B)

Edited September 11, 2012 by rochus
clarity

[Kyle]

This was done it the corner , but I imagine the carry is sick. IAD, 66C, 236A, 66~2[C], 66B, 236A+B. All have forwards trajectory.

[Kyle]

Also, in vid#2, @2mins:

after recovering from Yu's Super, he did an airdash and karacanceled something into an sb-trap or was it just an airdash sb-trap. Had a funny trajectory... better run away?

[xntrikcat]

I really liked Denpa's use of j.B. I need to use it more for air to air combat, instead of autopiloting j.C all the time. On CH there seems to be plenty of time to pick up a combo w/ 5a.

Also, he drops traps mid blockstring and IAD away to start his steady stream of traps and bullets. Too often when I get someone to block, I'm so hellbent on getting a hit that I try stupid things, instead of playing it safe and controlled.

[Ichipoo]

j.A and j.B should be used more in general as they're overheads while j.C is not. Besides, mixing in a couple of 'j.A xN > j.B > land > stuff' in your blockstrings due to their speed keeps the opponent honest.

[Kivorav]

I've been caught in alot of tight/meaty blockstrings that leaves very little room for me to counter or sweep. For meter usage, is it better to resort to Dead Angle or EX roll? In my thoughts, EX roll works better, but I'm not sure if it has good startup to escape pressure.

[PANDEMlC]

I've been caught in alot of tight/meaty blockstrings that leaves very little room for me to counter or sweep. For meter usage, is it better to resort to Dead Angle or EX roll? In my thoughts, EX roll works better, but I'm not sure if it has good startup to escape pressure.

Not 100% sure what dead angle is but to escape pressure I use the ex roll/gunshot a lot. Problem is sometimes I lose on wakeup or they can easily bait it by jumping at the right angle. Might be my execution though, annoys me when I wakeup and it doesn't come out. Depending on the matchup just use the 6A+B if you have 50 meter to get people off you. I find this incredibly necessary in the Chie matchup. But I have a hard time blocking her, same with Yu occasionally. If there are holes in their attackyou can just ex gunshot, roll or find some other way out. EX Roll/gunshot isn't really that good if they know it's coming, they can space it easily or just preemptively throw out their persona so you roll into it.

[Kivorav]

Dead Angle is pretty much what you described as using 6A+B with 50 meter to push the opponent away. It's a Guilty Gear terminology and works the same way in Blazblue. I've just played a couple of matches with a Yu player who pressures with AAA Raging Lion A, sometimes with Raging Lion B to throw me off with timing, sometimes using Swift Strike once I've been situated with the overheads. Now I managed to pull off sweeps in between the strings but I suppose I got too predictable with that. Last game I managed to EX roll right before the Swift Strike and that gave me the win.

What sucks is that people I face online resorts to auto combo pressure rather than Persona pressure which is stronger in my belief. I'd hate to go into a tournament like that. I gotta grind that into my head by tomorrow.

[Zeromus_X]

Dead Angle and EX Gunstance are probably her most reliable ways of escaping pressure, but with that in mind, you have to know where to use them. A lot of attacks can low-profile Naoto's Dead Angle, such as Mitsuru's sweep or Chie's 2A, which will make you super sad. EX gunstance has some vulnerability during the startup, so if the opponent does a meaty attack or throw (FFFF Kanji) it'll get blown up, so don't jump the gun (ba-dum-tsh). And of course, if you REALLY need to gtfo of there, in Awakening you can use Raid > OMC to guarantee a way out.

I like jB for air-to-air a lot, often I find it the only move I can use to stuff the more retarded air normals in the game like that bitch Labrys's jB. With that said, you still have to use it a bit ahead of time but I still think it's our best move for get people to respect us in the air. jA is good too, but hits more downward so it's better as a pressure tool than a move to just beat out the other player's air normal like most other characters.

How do you guys feel about 5B as a mid-range anti-air? I think this is the ideal range for Naoto's 5B given it's hurtbox and I've even hit some people from behind with it which looks really silly. I find myself using 5B a lot more than 2B for anti-air tbh. Also I think 2A deserves a mention as a situational anti-air because of Naoto's low profile. I think in terms of anti-airs, Naoto is a lot like Jin in BB, where you can't rely on one move as an all-purpose anti-air and really have to know when and where to press which buttons.

This one needs one more hit to smp. Denpa uses one b shot after the first 236a (before the omb), that ish cray. There is also a 5b after the 2[C] (before the 236A+B)

Thanks, I'll correct this now, sorry for the late reply.

after recovering from Yu's Super, he did an airdash and karacanceled something into an sb-trap or was it just an airdash sb-trap. Had a funny trajectory... better run away?

If you airdash and use EX Trap, you'll give your airdash a fastfall. It costs 25 meter, but it's fun to do near the end of the round when they only have a little bit of life left because you can do silly crossups for the kill, and good to mix up the neutral game.

[Ichipoo]

I've gotten 5B to hit airborne opponents before but I honestly wasn't expecting them to be in the air though. I think you need to be psychic with 5B as a footsie tool in general, because there's some start up to it and also there is some whiff recovery to it and I have gotten CH out of it a couple of times.

If you ask me, you can't always rely on 5B as a way to start offense since you're somewhat limited in what you can when they block, as you can't Jump Cancel. Sure you can do '5B > 5B > stuff' on block and get away with it if they're being respectful and go straight into AoA but that's pretty much it. The way I see it, Naoto somewhat suffers the same situation Noel did in BB, where the optimal way for both of them to start pressure is from 5A/2A, yet they both suffer from having subpar normals. Luckily for Naoto, she can harass the opponent with traps and 5D~D which helps bring close the distance to use 5A/2A if she chooses to.

[OutlawVinegar]

And of course, if you REALLY need to gtfo of there, in Awakening you can use Raid > OMC to guarantee a way out.

Just gotta point out, Raid > OMC is only a guarantee in certain matchups, or when your opponent has already pressed a button. Most character's DPs beat it clean, since the invul on Raid Kick is very brief. I've at least seen Yu, Yosuke, Mitsuru, Teddie, Kanji, and Chie all beat it on reaction to the superflash.

If you airdash and use EX Trap, you'll give your airdash a fastfall. It costs 25 meter, but it's fun to do near the end of the round when they only have a little bit of life left because you can do silly crossups for the kill, and good to mix up the neutral game.

Naoto can do a glide as well, then? Trap limitations are 3 of each type, right? Or is it 5 overall? Either way, it's potentially a way to do airdashes-into-lows, if your opponent is respecting you enough.

[Kivorav]

Alright. Another thing, what do you guys use to bait bursts and punish appropriately?

[Ichipoo]

Naoto can do a glide as well, then? Trap limitations are 3 of each type, right? Or is it 5 overall? Either way, it's potentially a way to do airdashes-into-lows, if your opponent is respecting you enough.

2 of each type.

Alright. Another thing, what do you guys use to bait bursts and punish appropriately?

Stopping a combo at either 5C or at 236B~D

[Launchpad_Atl]

I have been playing online for awhile now and I cant find any good naoto players. If anyone would like to help learn the mu please add me on psn LaunchPad_Atl. I live in Atl ga so if you have played someone close to there or boarding states please lets play. I play with Mitsuru

[mynus]

I have been playing online for awhile now and I cant find any good naoto players. If anyone would like to help learn the mu please add me on psn LaunchPad_Atl. I live in Atl ga so if you have played someone close to there or boarding states please lets play. I play with Mitsuru

There is a thread in the Naoto forums with everyone's PSN/XBL tags as well as there location, so check that out. I need some more Mitsuru mu xp after last nights Big 2 so feel free to add me (PSN: mynus_jp). Im in NYC.

[Kyle]

I would like to see this listed in the data thread/wiki plz.

Air Throw counts (1) tick towards SMP.

Bullet stance and All (5) bullets counts (2) ticks towards SMP.

ground throw & C-follow counts (2) ticks towards SMP.

AoA~C counts (3) ticks towards SMP.

AoA~D counts (3) ticks towards SMP.

[XDest]

Bullet stance and All (5) bullets counts (2) ticks towards SMP.

So I'm guessing the last shot is considered a different move from the other four?

[Kyle]

So I'm guessing the last shot is considered a different move from the other four?

Correct.

& a follow-up to my earlier comment about kara-cancel SB trap. There is no kara needed. Just so happens that Airdash into SB-trap has a unique "glide-toss" trajectory. Can be used in two situations.

- Escape, Superjump, air turn, forward air dash AWAY from opponent~SB-traps. This will put you full screen w/ (2) traps already up.

- When airdashing in & opponent really respects you, go for a quick landing low. Example: B, C, IAD, J.SB-Trap, 2A, (D-trap hits),

Here's the SMP corner finisher for the same setup.

OMB

IAD, J.SB-Trap, 2A, (D-trap hits), 2B, C, (C-trap hits), SJ.A, J.B, J.C, J.D, OMB, Land, (236B~D)x8. 236A~D.

I haven't come up w/ the meter variant SMP yet... on my honey-do list.

[Ichipoo]

So any noteworthy option selects we should be wary of? I think Naoto has that 5B > 5C one against Elizabeth, anymore?