Kurushii Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 Yes they are still considered low. A lot of Amane tech has come out in the last month but we'll have to wait for console to see how everyone develops.
Dawn of Musou Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 Dunno about tiers but a lot of people agree that Amane and Izayoi are the hardest to learn of the new characters.
HoudiniJr100 Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 with how things seem if Amane's complexity is hats turning players down I'm gonna at least try and use him on the side, besides he looks interesting too
ElegantShadow Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 Yes they are still considered low. A lot of Amane tech has come out in the last month but we'll have to wait for console to see how everyone develops. So basically, Tiers are invalid until the actual release? Dunno about tiers but a lot of people agree that Amane and Izayoi are the hardest to learn of the new characters. Hmm... I can certainly see why they'd be considered complicated since they both depend on hitting the opponent to get their good stuff going.
Kurushii Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 Tiers doesn't matter for people outside of Japan when everyone doesn't have any experience in the game. I say we will find out in console because that's when people lab it up and truly show characters potential. It's hard to practice new stuff in the arcade when everyone else is already strong and fighting for their 100 yen.
AMB Bakery Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 So basically, Tiers are invalid until the actual release? Do you really think Hazama, Taokaka, Litchi, and Hakumen won't be top tier on console release? Do you think any amount of tech can save a low tier character like Izayoi or Amane? If either of these are answered 'no' then that's a 'no' to your initial question. P4A might have developed differently whenever the console release came to be, I highly doubt that will be the case for BBCP
Luminos564 Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 Yes they are still considered low. A lot of Amane tech has come out in the last month but we'll have to wait for console to see how everyone develops. Whew that's a relief. I was starting to get worried that fewer and fewer players seemed to be using Amane. We got a little more than a month left of waiting so I guess we will see then.
Dark Ranger88 Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 Do you think any amount of tech can save a low tier character like Izayoi or Amane? I'm not sure if you mean technology, techniques, or whatever by this, but new discoveries can greatly jump characters up in terms of effectiveness, especially if something broken is discovered. If I'm not mistaken, didn't this happen with Carl in CT?
Errol Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 tiers have not changed much since the tiers we had almost a year ago. and they're not going to change that much. Was the same in EX. and probably CS2.
Kurushii Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 I'm not sure if you mean technology, techniques, or whatever by this, but new discoveries can greatly jump characters up in terms of effectiveness, especially if something broken is discovered. If I'm not mistaken, didn't this happen with Carl in CT? Yes, clap loop was discovered on console. I don't think any of the top characters will move. At best some of the lowers will move up some to show more balance. Maybe one will shoot up high if something dumb is found.
ElegantShadow Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 Tiers doesn't matter for people outside of Japan when everyone doesn't have any experience in the game. I say we will find out in console because that's when people lab it up and truly show characters potential. It's hard to practice new stuff in the arcade when everyone else is already strong and fighting for their 100 yen. I see. In your opinion, would you say that Amane still has a lot of untapped potential? Do you really think Hazama, Taokaka, Litchi, and Hakumen won't be top tier on console release? Do you think any amount of tech can save a low tier character like Izayoi or Amane? If either of these are answered 'no' then that's a 'no' to your initial question. P4A might have developed differently whenever the console release came to be, I highly doubt that will be the case for BBCP Honestly, I'd answer the first as a no (Isn't Jin also up there with those four?), and the second as a yes (Since, IMO, characters like Ragna and Tsubaki would be nigh unusable without their Tech.) Also, doesn't Top Tier just refer to a character that has a lot of tools to deal with other characters and/or has a very consistently high damage output?
Luminos564 Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 I'm not sure if you mean technology, techniques, or whatever by this, but new discoveries can greatly jump characters up in terms of effectiveness, especially if something broken is discovered. Don't hold out hope for anything too abusive though as that will likely get patched out sooner rather than later. Remember CS1's Makoto Parry loop?
AMB Bakery Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 I'm not sure if you mean technology, techniques, or whatever by this, but new discoveries can greatly jump characters up in terms of effectiveness, especially if something broken is discovered. If I'm not mistaken, didn't this happen with Carl in CT? There's a reason for my logic. The main difference between CT and CP is (despite what you may think of Hakumen in CP) CT was a broken game.
Kurushii Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 I see. In your opinion, would you say that Amane still has a lot of untapped potential? I wouldn't say a lot anymore. Kamoihito did exactly what he did with Relius in CSE, he dived far into what's possible with Amane. I doubt much is left that can really boost Amane. Amane still has defensive problems and requires heavy space control.
Errol Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 Honestly, I'd answer the first as a no (Isn't Jin also up there with those four?), and the second as a yes (Since, IMO, characters like Ragna and Tsubaki would be nigh unusable without their Tech.) Also, doesn't Top Tier just refer to a character that has a lot of tools to deal with other characters and/or has a very consistently high damage output? Generally the top six are set, which is pretty damn good for the S tier to be spread among six characters by the way. If there's any division it usually goes like this S Tao Valk Litchi S- Hazama Jin Hakumen and I totally don't know what you are talking about with Ragna and Tsubaki being nigh unusable without their tech, because Ragna is the braindead king and Tsubaki kinda sucks in large part because she has almost no tech. W/e.
Kurushii Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 It's possible for the top 6 to move down some if the three new characters are bad matchups for them. Odds of that is pretty slim.
Luminos564 Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 It's possible for the top 6 to move down some if the three new characters are bad matchups for them. Odds of that is pretty slim. So, barring a re-balancing patch at some point (which I figure is somewhat likely in light of Yuuki Terumi, Kagura and Kokonoe being very recent additions), odds are the top 6 will remain in their spot?
Kurushii Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 So, barring a re-balancing patch at some point (which I figure is somewhat likely in light of Yuuki Terumi, Kagura and Kokonoe being very recent additions), odds are the top 6 will remain in their spot? Yes
ElegantShadow Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 I wouldn't say a lot anymore. Kamoihito did exactly what he did with Relius in CSE, he dived far into what's possible with Amane. I doubt much is left that can really boost Amane. Amane still has defensive problems and requires heavy space control. I see. So, with that in mind, does that mean Amane players will likely be waiting for a balance patch before he moves up in rank? Generally the top six are set, which is pretty damn good for the S tier to be spread among six characters by the way. If there's any division it usually goes like this S Tao Valk Litchi S- Hazama Jin Hakumen That list... makes so much sense going by the videos I've seen of them fighting, and the VERY frequent combo videos for those six. and I totally don't know what you are talking about with Ragna and Tsubaki being nigh unusable without their tech, because Ragna is the braindead king and Tsubaki kinda sucks in large part because she has almost no tech. W/e. What I meant by that is that, IMO, Ragna (Brain-dead easy or not) wouldn't be winning Tournaments or seen in competitive play often if it wasn't for the fact that a lot of time has been put into finding what moves/gimmicks/tricks works in what situation and when to use them. And..., on second thought, I agree with you on Tsubaki.
Errol Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 I am thinking that we will have some months with the new characters, maybe 3-6 range, and then maybe a patch to the console and to the arcade. Just because I think they'll kind of want to get the new characters in the arcade, and CP is a full $60 game so maybe they will just patch it. but all speculation..
Appledash- Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 So, the reason the top 6 or so is where they are and low tiers like Amane and Izayoi are where they are has to do with their fundamental character design? Like how Haz has high-reward, low-risk zoning and gorilla damage and Izayoi has subpar damage and has to give up tempo to get stocks, in addition to having weak normals? And aside from his crazy damage and good normals, what does Haku have? Tiers aside, at least no one seems game breaking, though I'd happiest if asw got everyone to the point that they're viable (which I think is the case)
Errol Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 fundamental character design does have a lot to do with it, that's why S tier always looks familiar. But damage and other stuff that do actually tweak are large factors...
Luminos564 Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) And aside from his crazy damage and good normals, what does Haku have? Insanely high meter gain for doing what he always does: -Cut projectile? Gain meter. He especially loves the flavor of Amane's drills. -Use Drive on projectile? Gain meter. Hell, CATCH anything with your Drive (even if the opponent blocks it) and get free meter. -Use Overdrive? Easily gain 3~4 Magatama. Said Overdrive can do this at the start of the round before the "less health = more OD time" even kicks in. He gains so much meter, that I constantly see players tossing Agito (his new aerial special) non-stop since they know they'll get it back very easily, whereas before they were a lot more conservative with meter use. Edited September 13, 2013 by Luminos564
HoudiniJr100 Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 Insanely high meter gain for doing what he always does: -Cut projectile? Gain meter. He especially loves the flavor of Amane's drills. -Use Drive on projectile? Gain meter. Hell, CATCH anything with your Drive (even if the opponent blocks it) and get free meter. -Use Overdrive? Easily gain 3~4 Magatama. Said Overdrive can do this at the start of the round before the "less health = more OD time" even kicks in. Also infinite Magatama if low health>OD>MUGEN
ElegantShadow Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 Insanely high meter gain for doing what he always does: -Cut projectile? Gain meter. He especially loves the flavor of Amane's drills. -Use Drive on projectile? Gain meter. Hell, CATCH anything with your Drive (even if the opponent blocks it) and get free meter. -Use Overdrive? Easily gain 3~4 Magatama. Said Overdrive can do this at the start of the round before the "less health = more OD time" even kicks in. When you say all of that together at once, it sounds as if Hakumen belongs in a Tier of his own, or an entirely different game. XD
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