Ctrlaltwtf Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 I just ignore tier lists since it doesn't matter where my character on it since it doesn't help me figure out which are Lambda's bad match-ups. Well yeah that is the big thing: Player Skill Difference > Match-Up/MU Experience > Tiers Tiers are really only relevant when the PS and MU are both equal. Which is rather rare.
NeoGio0o Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Nah tiers are super important as it tells Gods like Satoshi, Isa, and Mame what character to put in main status. Anyone with an XBL copy of Extend knows Mame has a pocket everything and raises two middle fingers to tiers.
Ctrlaltwtf Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Nah tiers are super important as it tells Gods like Satoshi, Isa, and Mame what character to put in main status. Anyone with an XBL copy of Extend knows Mame has a pocket everything and raises two middle fingers to tiers. Wouldn't that just mean their "Player Skill" is over 9000?
NeoGio0o Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 They are beyond numerical values for their skill, so they are just labeled Gods and even that is disrespectful because it puts them in the same category as a free guy on a wooded cross.
Ctrlaltwtf Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 They are beyond numerical values for their skill, so they are just labeled Gods and even that is disrespectful because it puts them in the same category as a free guy on a wooded cross. I just had a mental image of the Crucifixion with Jesus's thought bubble saying "Fuckin' S-tier bullshit" I hope this doesn't actually offend anyone here. --- In any event, I'm waiting for console release before I even consider a tierlist even existing.
Errol Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 I had to go back 4 threads / 2 weeks to find an actual tier list that wasn't some kind of 'most loved/when used by newbies/stats based' list But it's still just ultimately the last tweak by 1 person on jbbs. After that everyone started talking about statistics and such. S+ Hakumen S Litchi, Taokaka, Jin A+ Ragna、Hazama、Valkenhyne、Carl A Arakune, Azrael, Tager, Mu, Bullet B Relius, Noel, Platinum, Nu, Bang, Rachel, Makoto C Tsubaki, Amane, Izayoi
Errol Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Top dan by each character. 17段 Taokaka, Rachel 16段 Hakumen, Jin, Platinum, Litchi 15段 Ragna, Hazama, Valkenhyne, Tager, Noel, Bullet, Carl, Nu, Mu 14段 Makoto, Azrael, Bang 13段 Relius, Amane, Izayoi 12段 Tsubaki
Ctrlaltwtf Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 A-Tier Tager? ...Isn't that like, against the law or something? Interesting to see Rachel at highest Dan with Taokaka.
Errol Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 I think these numbers were the totaling of the dans of the top 10 players of each character. 140↑ Hakumen143 Jin140 Taokaka140 130↑ Litchi138 Valkenhyne138 Ragna136 Hazama133 Carl132 Noel130 μ130 120↑ Arakune129 Platinum127 Azrael127 Tager126 Nu126 Rachel123 Bullet122 Makoto121 110↑ Relius118 Amane111 Tsubaki110 100↑ Izayoi108
Fluck Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 I understand that, but Barrier is a very important, much more limited resource in CP. Like I said above, it doesn't seem hard for Amane to get to Level 3- just a few blocked specials (which your opponent will likely see fit to Barrier anyway) and you're there. In the hands of someone who knows how to play the character, you will rarely see Amane's drill gauge overheat (though I will admit, it seems like an annoying mechanic to micromanage). And it's not like you can just use up all your Barrier and be perfectly okay until you get it back- because you get put into Danger for losing it all in CP, you have to be careful about when you do and don't use it. Against a good Amane, there WILL be times where you'll have to eat chip damage before you run out of Barrier, because if you don't, you'll lose even more health than you normally would. As for his mixups, yeah, they definitely seem like some of the worst in the game. But if he had good mixups on top of the whole godly chip mechanic thing, he'd be kind of ridiculous. tl;dr- I acknowledge Amane's flaws, but I think his unique offense is a strong plus, and I still don't think he belongs in C-tier. Judging from the performances I've seen in videos, I'd put him in mid to high B-tier, at the lowest. The problem is simply that his offense doesn't make up for all of his flaws. If you rated Amane as a character, he'd be bottom tier in defence, mix-ups, and neutral. Seriously, it looks like everyone else in the game rapes him in neutral. That simply doesn't result in a character who is higher than C tier. Also his crush trigger sucks, so you can't even use it to make opponents think twice about barrier management.
STenSatsu Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) A-Tier Tager? ...Isn't that like, against the law or something? Interesting to see Rachel at highest Dan with Taokaka. He was A-tier early into EX's lifespan iirc. That grappler syndrome. @Fluck: His CT seems ok, it's more that nobody wants to use meter on it because you need that for defense imo. His CH/throw mixup game will also probably be really good thanks to insta j.2b and 6b. He's also got the mindgame of just slapping out a 6d sometimes and then it doesn't matter if you block lol. Edited January 30, 2013 by STenSatsu
Yazumatto Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Top dan by each character. 17段 Taokaka, Rachel 16段 Hakumen, Jin, Platinum, Litchi 15段 Ragna, Hazama, Valkenhyne, Tager, Noel, Bullet, Carl, Nu, Mu 14段 Makoto, Azrael, Bang 13段 Relius, Amane, Izayoi 12段 Tsubaki Is this list stating the highest dan achieved by a person for each character or something else? If it is, I'm pretty sure it's outdated since Goro has been 15th dan for a long time now.
Michiru Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Top dan by each character. 17段 Taokaka, Rachel 16段 Hakumen, Jin, Platinum, Litchi 15段 Ragna, Hazama, Valkenhyne, Tager, Noel, Bullet, Carl, Nu, Mu 14段 Makoto, Azrael, Bang 13段 Relius, Amane, Izayoi 12段 Tsubaki What website did you use to acquire this information, if I may ask?
Tokkan Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 What website did you use to acquire this information, if I may ask? I'd imagine from the player's guild. http://sp.bbcp.ac/
Tong Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Heh, and they're making tier lists based on that
Errol Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Is this list stating the highest dan achieved by a person for each character or something else? If it is, I'm pretty sure it's outdated since Goro has been 15th dan for a long time now. I'm pretty sure it's your information that's out of date. lol. It is current not max ever. Edited January 30, 2013 by Errol
STenSatsu Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Is this list stating the highest dan achieved by a person for each character or something else? If it is, I'm pretty sure it's outdated since Goro has been 15th dan for a long time now. Probably current highest Dan for character. Goro might have dropped to 14 when Errol checked. @ctrlalt: no clue. Doesn't seem to be a hard cap yet. Heh, and they're making tier lists based on that Fairly sure any of the tier lists aren't based on Dans. Most of it appears to be opinions/discussion among the jbbs people. There's a char rank and what looks like a matchup chart thread on the BB jbbs. Unfortunately google translate isn't good for much besides seeing how many tiers a list has lol. Edited January 30, 2013 by STenSatsu
Errol Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 All I can say is the general flow over there seems to be that arbitrary tier lists are kind of pointless and that the results based stuff is better. At least, no one has even bothered to post a new list in ~2 weeks which is extremely odd. I think I saw some rough char population numbers. Here's what I remember. Ragna and Jin are #1 and #2. Azrael and Bullet are also in the top 5. Bottom is rounded out by Izayoi, Carl, Tsubaki, Amane, Relius, Valkenhyne. All of these have about the same number.
kirbster Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Well yeah that is the big thing: Player Skill Difference > Match-Up/MU Experience > Tiers Tiers are really only relevant when the PS and MU are both equal. Which is rather rare. I don't think it's that rare at all but then again I'm lucky to have a great, active offline community. But what you're saying is right, what counts in the end is the individual matchups... I still remember when Tager's only good matchup in CS2 was Noel, who was widely accepted to be S tier whereas Tager was clearly bottom tier. EDIT : oops Edited January 30, 2013 by kirbster
Yazumatto Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 I'm pretty sure it's your information that's out of date. lol. It is current not max ever. That it is. I was not aware your dan ranking could drop. Must have been recent too since the last video I saw had him still at 15.
Skye Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 But what you're saying is right, what counts in the end is the individual matchups... I still remember when Tager's only good matchup in CS1 was Noel, who was widely accepted to be S tier whereas Tager was clearly bottom tier. Think you mean CS2.
mAc Chaos Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 From what I remember it wasn't a "bad" matchup so much that Noel players had to VS Tager differently than other characters so they got murdered for auto piloting.
Ctrlaltwtf Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Honestly the idea of "tiers" is probably outdated. It should be an individual list of match-ups for each character. i.e. Tager has his own tierlist of matchups against every other character depending on whether it's favorable or not.
zeth07 Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) I'm pretty sure it's your information that's out of date. lol. It is current not max ever. That it is. I was not aware your dan ranking could drop. Must have been recent too since the last video I saw had him still at 15. For what it's worth, on the rankings page Goro is listed as 14th Dan, but on his profile page it actually says 15th Dan (as of 5 days ago). I would also assume it doesn't display the dan rankings on their profile as "maxed" achieved and is instead their current highest rankings, I think it'd be kinda weird to have your max shown since it could go up or down at any given time. So either the Top 150 rankings aren't as updated as players individual profiles or vice versa. Or it does in fact display maxed Dan ranking achieved no matter if it drops, which would be strange in my opinion. At this point it is just splitting hairs. Honestly the idea of "tiers" is probably outdated. It should be an individual list of match-ups for each character. i.e. Tager has his own tierlist of matchups against every other character depending on whether it's favorable or not. Even still, tier lists can be formed from that information as well. Tier lists just give a general idea, they mean something in general for the grand scheme of things outside of specifics, but at the same time can be irrelevant since player skill level is what's most important. Edited January 30, 2013 by zeth07
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