Airk Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) Well, I don't actually make any claims that one way is better for the community or anything. Just, personally, I do want some change. Loss of 22D unblockable doesn't bother me. I'm excited by the proposition of having a command grab, getting a real projectile, as well as a real air projectile, and a real DD (one with use besides tacking on damage in a combo). I also enjoy, to some degree, learning new combos, so all is fine by me. Non-Hey-look-it's-another-600-damage DD will be completely awesome, other stuff has potential for awesome. Not personally so keen on learning new combos, and I know it does tend to drive some people from the game. Optimism. Who'd a thunk it? Edit: Video was pretty hard to see, but looks like the ground projectile is basically the same orb as the air projectile, only horizontal instead of angled. Edited August 8, 2012 by Airk
pktazn Posted August 8, 2012 Author Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) Hard to say if she looks faster since she's up against Tao haha~ Thanks for posting it here. j.214C trajectory looks like it goes a little bit further? Charge move projectile is the sparkle balls of happiness justice that we get from j.236D except it goes straight. The projectile is a decent size imo. 22D looks the same if it wasn't a CH. Tao didn't let themselves get hit by the 236D (darn) but after that I noticed that her charge bar has the segments since they had used 22D earlier. Edit: Actually I think they were trying to see if you could follow up with 236D immediately after the projectile but it didn't work because: 1) Doesn't look like they recovered fast enough. 2) Tao got hit with the projectile lol Though it looks as if you can still move soon (not too soon obviously but soon enough) after the projectile has been released. If you use a defensive burst the overdrive gauge goes away. BTW I downloaded the original version of the video which shows things a bit more clearly. Edited August 8, 2012 by pktazn
Errol Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) 5c is no longer jump cancellable on hit. and j.236a can't be cancelled into j.214d, it seems. maybe only on whiff? or maybe at all. or maybe just referring to the special effect. dunno Edited August 8, 2012 by Errol
Adam0812 Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 5c is no longer jump cancellable on hit. and j.236a can't be cancelled into j.214d, it seems. maybe only on whiff? or maybe at all. or maybe just referring to the special effect. dunno I hope the whiff link is still possible, unblockable > 3cc > rc corner combos is how I do most of my damage in extend, though im sure we'll get plenty of new tools to use instead
Kiba Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 5c is no longer jump cancellable on hit. Well that means no more j.BB > JC combos from 5C then. May have to do 5BB > j.BB > JC IF that still works. No biggie, considering I'm looking forward to new combos anyway. Balls of happiness haha!
Daedron Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 tsubaki seems to be more faster ? The whole game seems to be faster, either it's a flat speed increase or something about there being no hitstop on moves at all or...SOMETHING. I especially noticed it in the Jin vs Ragna video for some reason.
BatousaiJ Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 Every iteration of the game came with new combos changing up our go-to combo for most situations every time. I'd be rather shocked if it wasn't the same this time around. It's part of fun of the game though, coming up with brand new combos and setups is a big part of why I play fighting game.
Errol Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 You just basically summarized my last post with this one statement. Yeah, it's just one factor. The better player is the player who wins. Sometimes combos make the difference. They're not close to all of it. OD activation seems to have invincibility; Hakumen 5c whiffed.
Kiba Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 Don't get me wrong, I don't wanna be on the bad end of the stick here, but I'd rather not see 2 pages worth of how something makes someone a complete player or whatnot since that basically has nothing to do with Tsubaki CP info. It may not go to that length, and while it's just an estimate or an emphasis of my point, I'd like for it to avoid getting to a worse situation as I'd like to keep it clean. Not that I'm saying any of you are wrong, but you guys know me. Some characters seem to be getting CT/CS1 traits back, so I'm looking to combos that Tsubaki used during that era. She retains the 5BB > 2BB > 5CC stuff, 214B launches on hit now like CS1. 6CC floating less may mean that the 6CC > 236C > 5C stuff no longer works because they'll be too low. I wonder if 2CC > 5C(W)C has become more useful in combos now that 2CC floats higher.
pktazn Posted August 9, 2012 Author Posted August 9, 2012 I sneezed and for some reason a page disappeared. But like Kiba said, try to keep this about CP and everything else in the Gameplay discussion thread :D
HajinShinobi Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 I'm moreso wondering how well or not her normals will be this time. Both air and ground normals. Tsubaki's been one of those characters that has not had a great set of normals, according to frame data.
Errol Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 There's a good amount of info about her normals in here so far. I mean, relatively, considering there isn't hard info on stuff like invincibility frames on C DP etc. Altho one more report of 'seems to have invuln'. I expect more hard info soon.. if people follow through on what they say they are going to do.
HajinShinobi Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 I'm expecting to see more hard proof than what's already summed so far. It's not enough right now.
Errol Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) Not gonna get much harder for most of that. Reality of location tests. Another note. In general, it seems like overheads have been nerfed. So the availability of a command grab seems particularly nice. Wonder if 6A was nerfed though. Edited August 9, 2012 by Errol
BatousaiJ Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 Only normal that seems to have been mentioned to have been changed is 2C being faster? That would be nice which would allow for easier punish of quick jump ins/jump resets and what not. Not sure if it would help the whole not auto-correcting problem I've run into a lot of times.
Tsubaki 5B Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 hmm if our 5B got the speed it had CS2 and plus the command grab i can see some nice setups with her also is there any info on her command grab?
Shruikon Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 Well that means no more j.BB > JC combos from 5C then. May have to do 5BB > j.BB > JC IF that still works. No biggie, considering I'm looking forward to new combos anyway. Balls of happiness haha! If the j.214x into 2B combos work then I could see our go to combos being something like 5BB > 5CC > 623C > (j.236A?) > j.214x > 2B > 2C > 236 series or something like that.
Errol Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 2C info is the one I don't trust at all. 5b, 5c have been said to be pretty much the same (minus 5c jump cancel). If there were big changes with 5bb , 2b, 2bb, 5cc, 5a, 2a, I think there'd have been info about it. MIght still be possible that other moves lost jump cancels, or gatlings are gone... I'm particularly curious about 6a.
Airk Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 I'm moreso wondering how well or not her normals will be this time. Both air and ground normals. Tsubaki's been one of those characters that has not had a great set of normals, according to frame data. Actually, in CS2 her normals were pretty strong - 5B was well above average, 2A was EXCELLENT, 6B was pretty good, etc. It's just they nerfed them all to hell for Extend. 2C info is the one I don't trust at all. 5b, 5c have been said to be pretty much the same (minus 5c jump cancel). If there were big changes with 5bb , 2b, 2bb, 5cc, 5a, 2a, I think there'd have been info about it. MIght still be possible that other moves lost jump cancels, or gatlings are gone... I'm particularly curious about 6a. I'm a bit skeptical of the 2C info myself, but I'm not nearly so certain as you that "big changes" to her basic normals would be noted in a loktest - unless it's super obvious stuff like whiff recovery or startup, a lot of the properties of normals aren't really apparent from just screwing around with the game for an hour or two. Remember how much testing we had to do to try to find the frame (dis)advantage on normals before the Extend Mook came out?
Tsubaki 5B Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 Actually, in CS2 her normals were pretty strong - 5B was well above average, 2A was EXCELLENT, 6B was pretty good, etc. It's just they nerfed them all to hell for Extend. I'm a bit skeptical of the 2C info myself, but I'm not nearly so certain as you that "big changes" to her basic normals would be noted in a loktest - unless it's super obvious stuff like whiff recovery or startup, a lot of the properties of normals aren't really apparent from just screwing around with the game for an hour or two. Remember how much testing we had to do to try to find the frame (dis)advantage on normals before the Extend Mook came out? 6B was plus in CS2 right? also @errol wats got you curious about 6a?
Errol Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 Yes, Airk. I don't expect that differences in frame advantage will be noticed. The one that would be noticed is + frames to - frames. but it probably won't really be noticed if 2b goes from -1 to -5. WHich, yea frame advantage changes are really big.. but even something like 6b going from +1 to -1, or +/- 0, someone could say they think it might no longer be positive and I wouldn't be sure. cause you can just be slow on your followup dash 5a. I'm curious about 6a because many characters have had their overheads nerfed in some way. Riskier, do less damage, etc. Tsubaki 6A was pretty bad in the first place in terms of reward, and in terms of speed, so it might be unchanged.
Errol Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 623C> 236A is doable, but from the trajectory it doesn't look possible to make 236a whiff (j.236A) j.236A trajectory is more like j.236C from CSEX. charge cancel, 5d or 2d, recovers 1/4 of a bar. 22d max charge during mugen is still not unblockable. 5 charge 236236D is about 2800 damage (.. thought it only consumed 1 charge now) offering to Kiba: the rising jump combo is still doable, off of 5b instead of 5c. (5b remains jump cancellable). 2 loops completed, red until trying to do 5b/2c (so, end with 5c/2c should still be good).
Kiba Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 I don't really know what to make out of those changes but that's still interesting, and I figured the jump combo was still doable. Thanks E.Dawg.
Daedron Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 I guess instead of doing 6CC - 623C - j.236A(whiff) - j.214D, we'll just have to do 6C - 623C - j.214D instead. If that even works still :V
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