[CP] Amane Nishiki Gameplay Discussion

[TD]

makes sense. his defense... is it worse than rachel's/CSEX lambdals? he has one reversal which does situationally ok damage or otherwise beyond crap damage with no followups. his offense is only truly threatening with lv3 drill. besides the insane chip drills dont seem too strong especially at lower levels.

theres also the point of actually getting lv3. 6d seems like the ONLY way to get it in a pinch at this point. other d's are focused on 'after getting lv3 drill' so the meter they give is minimal.

l can see his neutral suffering too. besides c normals in which you need to be very specific to hit along with laggy recovery, there isn't much he could do except move around all floaty-like and abuse fabhop mobility. if only the stance built drill meter faster/had special properties or something...

he's the epitome of momentum. if lv3 wasn't so good he'd definitely be the bottom of the tier list. he's gonna need some good tech. fortunately he has plenty of potential.

[StarGazer]

Amane is complex + this is his first appearance ever. Conclusion, he still have a lot of growth potential left... no?

[YukiBlue]

It's never fair to put a new character anywhere on a tier list for a few months to be honest. Amane looks like he will require a lot of time before he fully peaks. I mean look at Fei-Long in Super Street Fighter. He was Mid-Low Tier. Now in AE/2012 he is undisputed top tier.

BUT.

I've seen nothing too amazing from Amane in any videos. It looks like he crumbles under pressure really hard and suffers against characters with strong mobility tools.

[TD]

l think everyone is aware that it takes time for characters to develop. the point of the early tier lists is to see how far and how quickly the characters have developed, up to that point. while tier lists are mostly subjective, l feel like they are a great asset to the community as they 'track' character development in that sense. as the tier list itself gets figured out, we spectators watch videos, read info, and theorycraft to see if there's something missing - there always is - that could potentially move our character up.

think of the bb characters that are STILL not realized entirely, from mu and litch to hazama and possibly tager (secret command/kara dash anyone? :p )

[YukiBlue]

Characters right at the bottom have reason to be there, though. Think about EX Makoto, CS1 Rachel and EX Carl.

[TD]

that's fine. if there are clear character flaws that are bad enough to place you at the bottom then so be it. experimenting doesn't always yield positive results, either; as evident when you see multiple tier lists placing the same character in the same place.

[DerQ]

In the wise words of some dude in MTL, the best tier list goes like this : My character is D, everyone else is A and above.

But I'm fairly confident Amane will climb a few tiers, he's not bottom. Everything that I've seen from the videos make him look like he works, mostly on paper. He has flaws, granted. They're very exploitable, granted. He's not built in to be cheap from the get go, granted. But he has the potential to be good. You just have and you will always to work for it. Middle tier is where I think he'll fall. Exact middle ground.

[Boodendorf]

(Trying to make my avatar Amane themed too, asking a friend to edit it for me but he ain't there yet )

Amane bottom eh? I kinda suspected it for the first month tier list, especially since heavy rushdown chars usually get to be the big stars of the game when it comes out. Imo, defense takes longer to build than offense, which is why he's at the bottom right now. We'll have to wait and see.

TBH even if he does stay bottom/low that won't stop me (or any of us I believe) from playing him, always had bad luck and mained low tiers on blazblue most of the time for some reason lol... Not sure what tier Relius is on EX though so I can't say for this one.

And I really wanna see some new Amane gameplay, been a while since I had some. Anyone got a few links for me?

http://youtu.be/8d6JIBjHm0Q?t=21m57s Dat combo

2b,3c,236c,5a,6a,623c,5b(1?),6b, forward air dash j2c 236c

Never thought of adding 6b in a combo, this will be useful, especially since you can airdash into j.2C to add lots of damages.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Boodendorf

[Eternal Blaze]

Heh, never really had that much of luck with my "mains", I usually happen to main someone bottom and a have a secondary that happens to be high/top tier >__> always not on purpose too lol

Either way, as others stated I dont think Amane is bottom. He has alot of potential and there's still alot of room for improving and finding new tech. Having pretty much no defensive options seems to be one of the main things that really hurt him, you dont really see any of the other characters get as bulldogged as Amane when they get close enough to pressure. I've sadly seen matches where its more than 20 seconds of the Amane just blocking shit and cant really do much about it.

I'm sticking to Amane no matter what though, cant even remember how long its been since I've been this stoked for a new character in any game. I'll also have Nu and Az on the side so even if there's some reeeally bad matchups I'm sure one of them can cover for him ^__^

Also link to this said list? I'm curious to where Az/Nu/Relius stand and who's at the top/bottom

[Teutonicknight]

Amane's the most complex out of the new characters, so naturally people are inevitably going to suck while using him at first. Same case with Carl, players using him are either going to be really good, or really bad, and Amane just needs work to be effective, likewise. He still has a lot of undiscovered techs and strategies, so there is bound to be lots of exploring to do after the game is out. Besides, the chip damage alone is too good for him to be simply labeled as bottom, that makes him extremely dangerous at lower health levels, especially when he goes into OD and starts chipping you to death in the corner, realizing there's not much you can do about it. That alone is intimidating, and intimidation IS a factor for sure.

Overall, I'm actually looking forward to his addition to the series, I like more complex fighters, because they take time to learn and master, which is fun to me. Just not as complex as Carl... Never really wanted my fingers turning into pretzels just to pull off one combo, too extreme. Amane is perfect.

[Errol]

one way or another, spinking has still played in 1 month what most of you play in a year (or more). That's some time to develop your game play.

But yeah, maybe in a year he'll go up a tier to being at the last of B tier, like Tsubaki and Makoto in CSEX.

[Teutonicknight]

Either way, his fight style interests me. Constantly damaging the opponent sounds fun, and is a much-needed playstyle. His diversity is much-appreciated by me. And it sounds like he is not just another dumb, scrub-friendly character who wins off of random Distortions

(Tager)

and lucky fatals.

(Ragna)

[YukiBlue]

^^ Shots Fired ^^

[Teutonicknight]

^^ Shots Fired ^^

In a friendly way of course, ha. I don't disrespect the characters any less, because in Blazblue, everyone is equally annoying to fight against, because everyone's style has some sort of gimmick that will seem cheap if you're unfamiliar with the game, or the style. But those two deserve special mention in Extend.

I fell victim to GETB many times...

Although, Ragna isn't AS BAD as everyone told me he was in Extend. Just a bit stronger than he usually is, which caught me by surprise when I first played.

Edited December 22, 2012 by Teutonicknight

[STenSatsu]

Wouldn't worry about tiers too much. People are also saying Makoto is consistently low on the lists and yet others are saying she looks really scary. Plus you can do well with low tiers anyway, especially in US.

[Toasty]

one way or another, spinking has still played in 1 month what most of you play in a year (or more). That's some time to develop your game play.

SpinKing may have played far more than anyone else, but iirc this is his first BB game so he didn't have the background experience as someone such as Shadow.

Wherever he does end up on the tier list, it's safe to say that he'll be more than viable. An Amane player got second at a recent tourney (I'd link it but it was on Jourdal's old channel) and only lost to a Jin. The main reasons I think Amane is rated as he is are that he's a new character and there are only a small handful of Amane players atm.

That said, I honestly think it's too early to make a tier list without it being extremely volatile, and no matter what, us Amane players will have an advantage in that he's not used very much and less people will have as much matchup knowledge/experience. Matchup experience is imo far more important than tier list positioning anyway.

[Teutonicknight]

Right on, and even so, tiers shouldn't stop people from enjoying the character at all. (Didn't stop me from playing Makoto in Extend.)

[Toasty]

New combo path.

It does just a little bit more damage than the one involving two reps of 5C > 6C, but it makes me wonder if either of them can be used off a non-CH starter.

[StarGazer]

Wouldn't worry about tiers too much. People are also saying Makoto is consistently low on the lists and yet others are saying she looks really scary. Plus you can do well with low tiers anyway, especially in US.

If by others you mean Jiyuna then yes, Ragna players say the same thing in every game anyway.

[DerQ]

Watching old replays being uploaded to jourdal2012 and I got very excited for something I did not see at all. Your hariken stance seems like a bad move to do at neutral game. It's a big commitment to go into hariken drill and you press the wrong one, you essentially surrender the neutral game and you'll be force to block the incoming enemy. But, showing your opponent that you use hariken at neutral, you can bait him to get in and just empty cancel the stance into w/e beat his obvious approach. If that happens, you can get the guy scared of doing it again and get in his head. After that, I think you could play mindgames with that stance. You have the option to hold it for drill meter, ground drill for pressure and empty cancel for baiting.

You can see shadow use right here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM1PBq9IjH8&t=8m37s When you land a hand grab like that at neutral, it would make the other player so scared to do anything for a few seconds.

Also, took out the dead links in my notes, it feels completely empty of any video footage now

[NumeroGaijin]

The one thing I have no understanding of is why Makoto is considered scary at all. Her mixup is easily blocked even from really really good Makoto's. Honestly though I believe that Amane will be low A or mid A.

[Aloci]

I personally think it's too early for any kind of tiers as well. Though discussing them is always fun.

I don't really care how low Amane is. If he has any match-ups that are just completely unwinnable, or extremely in the opponents favor, then I'll just Jin it to Win it.

If not, then it's all fab, all the time.

[Boodendorf]

I personally think it's too early for any kind of tiers as well. Though discussing them is always fun.

I don't really care how low Amane is. If he has any match-ups that are just completely unwinnable, or extremely in the opponents favor, then I'll just Jin it to Win it.

If not, then it's all fab, all the time.

No matter what happen, I'll just fabulous myself out of every matchup.

[DerQ]

New combos by Ora, sweet stuff

http://youtu.be/-Ut8ugSN_mw?t=45s Throw combo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ut8ugSN_mw&feature=youtu.be&t=1m26s Extended mid screen combo 3.2k

http://youtu.be/-Ut8ugSN_mw?t=2m32s Corner throw with drill level 3. I presume he dropped it, but he still got 3K and could maybe get 4

I'm sorry, but Hakumen was using barrier here. Once again I ask, air unblockable/grab? That would just FABULOUS

http://youtu.be/-Ut8ugSN_mw?t=2m7s

[Boodendorf]

Something important to note: On block, against an airborne opponent, the j.B,j.AAA string might whiff depending of the height of the opponent (if he's too low it might whiff). I saw it happen multiple time in a video against a ragna, and everytime Amane got punished by an air inferno divider, meaning we'll have to be careful when using this string. Can't find the video where I saw it though.