zeth07 Posted March 15, 2013 Author Posted March 15, 2013 Please bring the discussion back to gameplay and let the other stuff go, or take it somewhere else at least (Twitter?), or PM me or even a supermod if you feel there's an actual problem. Any further posts on that "discussion" directly, I will politely PM you asking you to stop and get back on topic and I will delete the posts from here on. Thanks. Gameplay discussion from here on please. Mid-post EDIT: Thank you Koopa_Klawz, carry on from there everyone.
LegendaryRath Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6vChsEiX18#t=0m57s Is it me or did Jin's 5C go right through Phalanx Cannon start up? Seems to be the case. I've seen some other weird things happen with Phalanx cannon. The character overview thread mentions "...Seems to have start-up invincibility or that is just part of the anti-projectile part of it." Maybe once we get some frame data we'll find that it has a few invincibility frames, sort of like Mitsuru's 2B having 3 for no reason.
zeth07 Posted March 15, 2013 Author Posted March 15, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6vChsEiX18#t=0m57s Is it me or did Jin's 5C go right through Phalanx Cannon start up? I imagine it retains some invincibility since it is technically apart of Growler. Not to mention Phalanx Cannon more or less destroys everything anyway. Another frame data investigation needed.
LegendaryRath Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) I wonder what the start up is for Phalanx cannon. Seems really fast to me, even been used after cross-through forward dashes. EDIT: It makes me quite happy to see that we can get such devastating damage meterless off an air CH http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QnzDqVpbvfM#t=62s Edited March 15, 2013 by LegendaryRath
helix Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) I re-read the character overview and apparently, it has been said that Growler is the move with start-up invincibility(because of the anti-projectile part of it), but i'm not too sure about it because whenever i see an azrael player use it as a dp, they most of the time trade hits, this probably means that the invincibility is short-lived, and i think that's unfair since ragna's inferno divider has more invincibility than Growler when both of them have roughly the same amount of recovery. I have also started reading this thread from scratch so that i don't make any mistakes again, and i've been wondering, there was this japanese guy called Yonah on dustloop, where is he now? On the topic of phalanx's invincibility, i'm not too sure about this since i don't see many azraels who use it (they don't absorb projectiles with Growler for some reason ) but i think that during the entire projectile throwing part of the move, he has invincibility, and did anyone see phalanx trading hits with tager's sparkbolt? i want to know what happens. Also guys, i have seen the coolest rapid combo in history done by shiroumadoushi vs kaqn(ragna) i think if you go watch that match, you'll understand, but in summary it was: (air only CH)j.B,land,5B,j.B,j.C,jump cancel,DIVEKICK,Rapid when close to the ground,j.C,5B,j.B,j.C,Jump cancel,DIVEKICK,rapid when close to the ground,j.C,5B,aerial. Finally, after seeing the clip koopa-klaws gave us, it doesn't really seem as though phalanx actually destroyed jin's 5C, because jin didn't even touch azrael's hitbox, he was a bit too far away and phalanx gives you the illusion that the move should have hit him because of the visual cues it gives you, it's hard to imagine that azrael has THAT much priority anyways. Edited March 15, 2013 by helix
helix Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) Zeth, i also have something to tell you, you can combo off of 6C starter easily if you hit an airborne opponent with it or you if you hit somebody with it on CH by simbly doing a pick-up combo on them, and i'm pretty sure there are more combos with 6C starter than just 0 combos(like the combo thread indicates) Also i'm not sure if it's listed in the combo thread( the combo thread is a huge wall of text and i have a short attention span) but most azrael players who try to follow up TCL combos in the corner usually do 5B,2C,5B, aerial. some azrael players also tend to do: stuff,6D,TCL,3D as a midscreen combo or try doing 6A,IAD,j.C,land,TCL,5B,2C,5B,aerial. i've also noticed that azrael is a great corner carrying character, for example he has this combo: forward throw,6A,IAD,j.C,TCL,(it's almost guranteed that you're in the corner by now unless you were in the corner)5B,2C, Aerial. I also have a ton of combos currently in my head and i wonder if i should post in the combo thread( do i have your permission zeth?) I've also noticed that if you're in the corner, you can easily do 5B,2C,5B,aerial without any preparations. And maybe you can do this as well?: stuff,6D,6A,IAD,j.C,land,TCL,if you're close to the corner you can also do 5B,2C,5B,aerial. Edited March 15, 2013 by helix
zeth07 Posted March 15, 2013 Author Posted March 15, 2013 Zeth, i also have something to tell you, you can combo off of 6C starter easily if you hit an airborne opponent with it or you if you hit somebody with it on CH by simbly doing a pick-up combo on them, and i'm pretty sure there are more combos with 6C starter than just 0 combos(like the combo thread indicates) Also i'm not sure if it's listed in the combo thread( the combo thread is a huge wall of text and i have a short attention span) but most azrael players who try to follow up TCL combos in the corner usually do 5B,2C,5B, aerial. some azrael players also tend to do: stuff,6D,TCL,3D as a midscreen combo or try doing 6A,IAD,j.C,land,TCL,5B,2C,5B,aerial. i've also noticed that azrael is a great corner carrying character, for example he has this combo: forward throw,6A,IAD,j.C,TCL,(it's almost guranteed that you're in the corner by now unless you were in the corner)5B,2C, Aerial. I also have a ton of combos currently in my head and i wonder if i should post in the combo thread( do i have your permission zeth?) I've also noticed that if you're in the corner, you can easily do 5B,2C,5B,aerial without any preparations. And maybe you can do this as well?: stuff,6D,6A,IAD,j.C,land,TCL,if you're close to the corner you can also do 5B,2C,5B,aerial. If you'd like to contribute, please feel free to do so! Just post a combo that you've seen and know that works or have tested yourself. Linking to a video with the combo, particularly timestamped, is encouraged. Before you post any combos in the thread I ask that you know 2 things: 1) Make sure the combos aren't already listed. If there's nothing for a starter, then please feel free to post the combos. 2) Make sure the combos are actual combos. Provide the link to a match/video with the combo, preferably timestamped as mentioned. Or provide a link to the source if it is from the jbbs or somewhere else that's relevant. I will not take any "theory" combos for the combo thread, they must be confirmed to work and exist. The reasoning there are no 6C combos is because there have not been any posted on the jbbs/Japanese Wiki, or in any combo videos, or that I have personally seen in match videos up to the point that I had posted everything in the thread listed so far to begin with. I did mention it twice in the Combo Theory section of the thread about what is probably possible off it. If there has been a match where an Azrael landed a full 6C combo since then, please feel free to post it and I will add it. Same goes for anything else that doesn't have combos. Just ignore air starters for now.
helix Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 Zeth,i have just started posting combos in the combo thread, if there are any useless combos or combos that were already posted, feel free to remove them or tell me about them, i will be contributing with any combos that i may find.
LegendaryRath Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 Thanks for contributing helix! I noticed that your links aren't timestamped. If you would like to link a specific part of a video, just right click on the youtube player and select "copy video URL at current time". It makes a big difference and is very easy to do!
helix Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) thanks, i'm going to do just that,i was going to go over it again to improve on it anyway by putting exact damage value and whatnot,so thank you for teaching me about it . By the way, why did my title change from new blood to legit member, i only posted 10 times anyway. EDIT: i timestamped all of the videos and listed the damage for most of them, i'll continue posting up combos whenever i see intresting ones in that same post. Edited March 16, 2013 by helix
LegendaryRath Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 By the way, why did my title change from new blood to legit member, i only posted 10 times anyway. Something to do with your number of posts, time as a member, ect. I'm not entirely sure how it works but it'll go up over time. Keep in mind that you should be able to use a custom avatar and title if you wish.
helix Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) This combo is just amazing, i didn't know you could cancel TC into hornet bunker : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdz7GVtqNAM&feature=player_detailpage#t=1546s i think that i'm going to post this in the combo thread,because honestly, this opens up a whole new route of possibilities for combos. also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdz7GVtqNAM&feature=player_detailpage#t=1603s this is a combo that is done off a 6C starter,however, this is exclusive to fatal, but still a combo nonetheless. Edited March 16, 2013 by helix
Lucalibur Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 This combo is just amazing, i didn't know you could cancel TC into hornet bunker : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdz7GVtqNAM&feature=player_detailpage#t=1546s i think that i'm going to post this in the combo thread,because honestly, this opens up a whole new route of possibilities for combos. Yeah, the second rekka hit can be special cancelled. Not only into bunker, but charger and crush trigger as well. It's pretty damn useful and will combo into all of them due to the amazing untechable time it got.
LegendaryRath Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 This combo is just amazing, i didn't know you could cancel TC into hornet bunker : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdz7GVtqNAM&feature=player_detailpage#t=1546s i think that i'm going to post this in the combo thread,because honestly, this opens up a whole new route of possibilities for combos. I'm curious if that works midscreen. It could allow more practical uses for lower weakpoints.
zeth07 Posted March 16, 2013 Author Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) thanks, i'm going to do just that,i was going to go over it again to improve on it anyway by putting exact damage value and whatnot,so thank you for teaching me about it . By the way, why did my title change from new blood to legit member, i only posted 10 times anyway. EDIT: i timestamped all of the videos and listed the damage for most of them, i'll continue posting up combos whenever i see intresting ones in that same post. This combo is just amazing, i didn't know you could cancel TC into hornet bunker : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdz7GVtqNAM&feature=player_detailpage#t=1546s i think that i'm going to post this in the combo thread,because honestly, this opens up a whole new route of possibilities for combos. also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdz7GVtqNAM&feature=player_detailpage#t=1603s this is a combo that is done off a 6C starter,however, this is exclusive to fatal, but still a combo nonetheless. For future reference, can you please use the same "style" of typing out the combos that is used in the combo list. It makes it easier on me to add them, since if it isn't like that I have to go back through each combo and change out symbols and spacing just for continuity anyway. You don't have to go back and change what you have now, just in the future I'd appreciate it. Example: (Location)(Heat Usage)[Weak Point] X > X > X > X = XXXX DM I know you got most of what is needed already, it's just the formatting helps a little more. Thanks. (Valiant loop notation is almost always different depending on where I get, so don't stress too much about that as I will probably decide to change it later on to simplify it.) So just do something like: X > 236D > [5C *5] > X or X > 236D > [5C > 6C > 5B > etc.] > X Edited March 16, 2013 by zeth07
helix Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) Alright then Zeth, i'll do my best to format future combos in the same way you listed, thanks for the reference. Also this is extremely weird, in this video azrael hits an airborne jin with CH j.2D but for some reason he doesn't ground bounce : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh6wPTNxHIA&feature=player_detailpage#t=712s According to the combo theory section, this shouldn't happen because quote on quote: -With a specific weakpoint applied (or CH), each Drive move gains a special property that opens them up as combo starters or extenders. This is really weird, and if the drive moves don't gain their special effect on CH, then i will be very sad. or this could be just a glitch. EDIT: well this clears it up, as you can see here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh6wPTNxHIA&feature=player_detailpage#t=950s 6D hit on CH and it caused a ground bounce. Edited March 16, 2013 by helix
AMB Bakery Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 For all of the ground drive moves, they tend to have their weakpoint-applied properties on CH on ground or air hit. CH j.D or j.2D however do not gain their special effects and of course, neither do Hornet or Valiant. For Hornet and Valiant, I think it's just longer untechable time.
helix Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 For all of the ground drive moves, they tend to have their weakpoint-applied properties on CH on ground or air hit. CH j.D or j.2D however do not gain their special effects and of course, neither do Hornet or Valiant. For Hornet and Valiant, I think it's just longer untechable time. Oh!now i see,this should be listed somewhere, because i didn't know about this(and others probably may not know as well)
AMB Bakery Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 Well, to be fair, I pointed it out at first but I didn't really look at the other drive moves' effects on counter hit. I just saw CH 6D, 3D, and 5D all retain their special effects on counter-hit and assumed that was enough evidence to assume that it was a universal condition, but I've since seen evidence proving otherwise. The only ones that really matter are 6D and 3D, in the chance that your opponent is trying to mash out of a blockstring and they get ground-bounced instead.
zeth07 Posted March 16, 2013 Author Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) Clarified, just in case. EDIT: Added combos, if you update your post further with new stuff please add it to the bottom of what is already there so that I actually notice it is new/updated. Thanks. Edited March 16, 2013 by zeth07
Doc 705 Posted March 17, 2013 Posted March 17, 2013 How safe would Azrael's dash be in a crossup situation on your opponents wake up? Is it dependent on them pressing buttons or not, or can you still just throw it out there and not have to worry about 2A mash, etc?
Eternal Blaze Posted March 17, 2013 Posted March 17, 2013 Pretty sure that buttons beat it and that IIRC he doesnt have any "real" oki setups.
zeth07 Posted March 17, 2013 Author Posted March 17, 2013 How safe would Azrael's dash be in a crossup situation on your opponents wake up? Is it dependent on them pressing buttons or not, or can you still just throw it out there and not have to worry about 2A mash, etc? Pretty sure that buttons beat it and that IIRC he doesnt have any "real" oki setups. More or less that. I'm sure there are times when you do have enough time to actually do the forward dash crossthrough (while they tech) but before they can actually press a button, but generally speaking it will lose to just about anything on wakeup if you're doing it later into the knockdown. If the opponent likes to disrespect you, or is a player that is just plain mashing, I would avoid any kind of forward dash crossthrough oki. If you get someone who is scared, and will actually try to block, it will be more effective. So it's all about conditioning in the end. The same could be said if you go for it during pressure or even just as a reset at the beginning of a weaker combo. If the opponent will legitimately try to block and not mash, you can easily catch them off guard with a forward dash crossthrough. EX: Let's say they block or even get hit by 2A>5A/2B. You could try and crossthrough them into Tiger Magnum/Gustaf, which will be much bigger damage. Another example which we've seen work, is if you have Phalanx Cannon stored. It's INCREDIBLY fast, and possibly has some startup invul. anyway, so it is also effective although situational.
helix Posted March 17, 2013 Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) I'm thinking of contributing some more, so i'm going to post in the video thread, are there any rules/ways to format and organize that i should follow? And when i do upload, i'm only going to upload jourdal2012 videos, in fact, i will be posting up all jourdal2012 vids that include Azrael, so i recommend that nobody uploads jourdal2012 videos as to cause less confusion and unnecessary clutter, and to save you the trouble and effort it takes to upload his videos. 5-10 minutes after this is posted, i will have already posted some videos already, so watch out for them. EDIT: posted tons of videos in the video thread, will clean them up and delete certain videos later but you\re free to check them out. Also, Azrael's front dash seems to have more than 5 frames of invincibility, because look here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh6wPTNxHIA&feature=player_detailpage#t=842s Amane's 5B is definetly more than 5 frames, yet azrael's front dash passed right through it. I'm also looking for a video i saw where Azrael's 6A wall-bounced on CH and the Azrael was able to combo from it as a starter mid-screen. Edited March 17, 2013 by helix
Recommended Posts