BladeOfJustice7 Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 I've seen quite a few opportunities where they could've safely absorbed a projectile and instead decided to meet the projectile head on, with their face.
Darcius Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 I've seen quite a few opportunities where they could've safely absorbed a projectile and instead decided to meet the projectile head on, with their face. You're mistaking human error for a lack of strategic wealth.
stickystaines Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 I've seen CH GB go into 2C(the slab) as well when range didn't permit 5BB to work. So you still get something from many ranges.
CerealKillerP Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 Most good Azrael players use Growler as a reversal in the corner or when they are 100% sure that they can absorb a projectile. They usually throw it away really fast which I don't really get but whatever. Sure, if you want to play a bit more risky, you could go for Growler a lot more but Phalanx isn't really worth risking a bunch of damage. It's only good for pressure unless someone has been hiding a Phalanx starter combo from us. And I don't really think Azrael needs help with his pressure.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 If someone is deliberately trying to zone you with projectiles, why not absorb them and send them back at them to get in on them? That's all I'm saying. if you can see the projectile and dodge it when your opponent is a full screen away why not just absorb it?
soujiro seta Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) ^^^^ I get what blade is saying. There are many vids i've seen with azrael where he could have absorbed projectiles and not be punished, but they chose to block it or jump over it. They were literally at full screen (not always), so why not absorb it anyway? The threat of having a projectile stored up also puts pressure on your opponent. It's practically as fast as (if not faster) than spark bolt, and is a full screen punish. You don't even have to combo off it. It gives your opponent something to think about, and if it connects you can dash in to mixup. I'm willing to bet you can connect BHS after it hits, maybe on CH only though. Edited December 4, 2012 by soujiro seta
BladeOfJustice7 Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 Finally someone getting what I'm trying to say, it's like using Hakumen and you always block or dodge projectiles as a means of getting in close, and opting not to use counters and slashes to destroy projectiles. Coupled with the fact that phalanx cannon is a scary neutral tool just like Tager and Spark Bolt.
mAc Chaos Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 Well, if you're getting zoned, wouldn't you rather use the opportunity to jump over or IAD in closer to them, instead of just standing there and basically doing the equivalent of blocking. Except you get a projectile, but it's not like that'll be that big a deal.
TITANIUM BEAST!!! Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 More than likely players are still trying to figure out Azrael, which is why they haven't tried to break down matchups more and use specials to their utmost. I can imagine Growler being really useful against some characters and not so much on others. Give it time. I really enjoy watching this character fight. Senchou had one of my favorite strats in using weakpoint combos to set up Scud Punishment enders. That move seems way too strong. Applies both weaknesses and they stay active as long as he's glowing? Awesome. Only problem I can see so far is that he's probably going to struggle somewhat against legit zoning characters like Nu. That and I dunno how reliable his offense will be at a high level, since some of his mixup options are kinda slow.
Moy_X7 Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 Growler has the same downside that Plat's Air Persia has: really bad recovery. Only a handful of projectiles should be absorbed with Growler. You don't want to try and absorb projectiles that can be chased like Litchi's staff, Plat's missiles and bombs, Rachel's Pumpkin, Carls' Volante, Hazama's chains, etc.
TITANIUM BEAST!!! Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 Well, if he's invincible while absorbing, then it's not that big of a deal, since they're coming into your desired range, which is probably what you wanted them to do in the first place. They're coming in on their terms, though. It's not something you should do carelessly.
Moy_X7 Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 I'm pretty sure that his Growler works like Yukiko's Dia: full-body guard point (ala Mu's DP) on start-up and then just projectile guard point/absorption for as long as you hold Growler. You're most likely vulnerable after the brief full-body guard point duration and that's why using it against projectiles that can be chased is a really bad idea.
TITANIUM BEAST!!! Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 There's video evidence that if you absorb a projectile, you are invincible/have guard point against all attacks for the duration of the absorption animation. This would make it safe versus these types of chaseable projectiles, provided the projectile makes it to Azrael first. Read back a page or two for the posts where this is discussed.
Moy_X7 Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 Really? Does he not go through a recovery period after using Growler? Surely those characters I mentioned could wait for him to recover and punish him.
TITANIUM BEAST!!! Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 Not after absorbing a projectile, apparently. Either that or it's a very short recovery. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxaU1baquHo&t=5m50s Probably the third time this particular vid has been posted, but I guess not everyone has had a chance to look at it.
CerealKillerP Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 If your opponent uses a projectile, you can either absorb it or dash through it. Of course there's other stuff that can be done but those are the ones I'll concentrate on for now. Absorbing a projectile gives you Phalanx Cannon which can be used to break your opponent's pressure and apply your own. BUT your opponent can very well predict when you will use your projectile, just like you did with his. So, if he predicts when you will use it and blocks or dodges it you are back to square one. If he IADs, you are in a bit of trouble. However, if you dash through your opponent's projectile, you have the upper hand. You are closer to them(as long as you dash forward, of course) and can do with them what you want(as long as it's fast enough). You could dash through a projectile then use 5C > Buster and even if they block, you are in their face. Unless you are really confident in your use of Phalanx, dashing would be a better choice. But let's not forget that you can fuck with your opponent's mind if you absorb a close-ranged projectile-based attack, like some of Rachel's.
Moy_X7 Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 Not after absorbing a projectile, apparently. Either that or it's a very short recovery. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxaU1baquHo&t=5m50s Probably the third time this particular vid has been posted, but I guess not everyone has had a chance to look at it. Holy shit, the recovery period is almost non-existent, it's almost as good as catching projectiles with Hakumen's counters. I stand corrected then, Growler field away lol.
TITANIUM BEAST!!! Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 Phalanx recovery is really fast, like everything else about the move, so I don't think someone IADing over it is a problem unless you are really close when using it. This speed also makes it harder to predict when you're using it, whereas Growler can be used on reaction to most of your opponent's projectiles, so I don't think you can compare those two situations equally. I don't think Phalanx itself is the main use of Growler, though, just a nice bonus you get that can change the matchup a little bit. I also don't think dashing through a projectile will always give you the upper hand, especially versus projectiles that recover quickly. Even projectiles that don't have great recovery can be used fullscreen and usually the opponent will still recover faster than you if you dash through a projectile. You won't always be in range for 5C > Buster afterwards, and 5C isn't exactly super fast either. In that case, you're probably better off using Growler. Theory fighter, meh.
CerealKillerP Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 Yeah, I'd be great if we could try it out and see but we'll just have to wait until some Japanese player talks about it.
zeth07 Posted December 4, 2012 Author Posted December 4, 2012 Yeah, I'd be great if we could try it out and see but we'll just have to wait until some Japanese player talks about it. You mean like this? Phalanx is pretty strong~ I fought a Rachel today and was trapped the corner. Using Phalanx when she fired her cannon to continue pressure canceled the projectile and hit her, allowed me to get out. Absorbing her projectiles during the round might be a good option against her corner blockstrings. I was also able to completely absorb Tempest Dhalia with Growler lol. -jbbs Which has been in the 1st post for a while now and mentioned previously. As it was previously discussed, if you can absorb a projectile I really see no reason not to except for the examples already explained. Another example given was an Azrael player used Growler to absorb Hazama's chains but the Hazama proceeded to just fly in and CH him afterwards. Why some players don't do it when it seems like a perfect opportunity to is something you'd have to ask those players directly which we'll never be able to do. Maybe it is a case of better safe than sorry.
Moy_X7 Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 You might wanna link that video posted a page back in the first post. Seeing is believing after all lol.
zeth07 Posted December 4, 2012 Author Posted December 4, 2012 You might wanna link that video posted a page back in the first post. Seeing is believing after all lol. Nobody reads the 1st post anyway so what's the point of that, lol. At some point I will probably remove the 1st post and put it in it's own thread and labeled as "Azrael - Character Overview (READ HERE FIRST!)" and if they still don't read it then they are fucking up.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 Good discussion, glad my point got across And people say DL is only full of retards lol Why some players don't do it when it seems like a perfect opportunity to is something you'd have to ask those players directly which we'll never be able to do. Maybe it is a case of better safe than sorry. Not being aware of how strong it is as a tool, it's bene what? 2 weeks people don't even have optimal combos with him yet, or anyone for that matter. I mean his "tobe" superarmor launcher hasn't really been used, let alone incorporated into combos. Though I expect them to realize how strong it is. I'm looking forward to phalanx cannon mind games. Nobody reads the 1st post anyway so what's the point of that, lol. At some point I will probably remove the 1st post and put it in it's own thread and labeled as "Azrael - Character Overview (READ HERE FIRST!)" and if they still don't read it then they are fucking up. I've actually looked at the first post multiple times, usually before posting my question. But I'm weird and informative like that But yes Azrael character overview will be necessary. @titanium, interested in getting into BB? I thought bullet caught your attention and not Azrael.
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