[CP1.1] Makoto Nanaya's Gameplay Discussion - When's 2.0?

[swordsman09]

I know this isn't exactly gameplay related but, I just saw her gag reel. Then I found the greatest quote ever.

[Kev-Ab]

I know this isn't exactly gameplay related but, I just saw her gag reel. Then I found the greatest quote ever.

If it's your actual signature it's like a perfect joke about nerfs. think like if it was a saiyajin tail...

Also, about those 1.1 changes, I can stand anything that isn't returning to Extend like tier. I started playing her seriously in Extend and now in BBCP I could feel why it was so suffering to win. I really appreciate the improvements.

But seriously ArcSys (or the person who manages the balancing), she's in the point of there's no need to nerf anything of her, that's beating the dead horse, you had enough fun with that in Extend.

I hope they don't touch lessen her damage anymore in the future, that's what I like the most about her fighting style.

[swordsman09]

Just wait until they take out j.2C completely. Then my quote will become legendary.

 

I think we can only hope that 1.1 is the stopping point for Makoto nerfs but the chances seem slim.

[Kcin]

One of the biggest slaps in the face we got is that mars chopper no longers combos crouching opponents like before. We also have no fatal counters that hit and keep the opponent in crouch state to add to this.

So why in the hell did arcsys decide to give us back the mars chopper>2D revolver action from CS2 during overdrive when there is no realistic way to ever apply it for any purpose period?

I mean, if my OD is ever on for any intent and purpose and i'm not smashing their face with drive for the entirety of the time, what isanity would cross my mind to use an unsafe blockstring/move over a slightly negative 5D trying to fish for fatals?

[Teutonicknight]

Just wait until they take out j.2C completely. Then my quote will become legendary.

 

I think we can only hope that 1.1 is the stopping point for Makoto nerfs but the chances seem slim.

Don't give them any ideas, because they JUST MIGHT do it.

...I'm kind of surprised no one is fighting back or defending Makoto with the grimness going on, because she's easily one of the most tormented fighters I've ever seen when it comes to changing their gameplay with little to no thought, or even borderline hatred.

[Dark Ranger88]

j.2C is literally useless outside of using it as a risky ass anti-air bait...sigh...why make a character that has useless moves???

 

I would say 2C as well, but at least that's used in combos.

[Teutonicknight]

3C I think is arguably the most useless move in the game now. Even when it had the invuln, it was mainly situational for projectiles and only really useful for baiting bursts. If 2C's speed was quicker, it'd be a much better low than what it is. But nope- even Tager's lows are faster, and have better reach. So that's two slow lows for her. What are they going to screw up next in CPEX? It's anyone's guess, because things aren't looking up.

[HiagoX]

3C actually has more uses than j.2C.

[Kenrou.Horo]

Well I finally got around to ordering CP, but man reading this thread is so depressing...  Has CP1.1 actually come to consoles or is it still just arcades?  If not, any chance Makoto might still get some buffs beforehand?  I've been out of the loop for so long lol.

[Kev-Ab]

3C actually has more uses than j.2C.

I can confirm that if someone jumps infront of you and you're in the corner, using a 3C can get you out quick (If he predicts the 3C it will not, but usually he can't punish you effectively, it's more usual that you have the time to block or that he can't confirm a combo, but the key is to not abuse that option), that's the only use I think it's the most useful and less risky, because most aerials aren't big enough, but characters like Valkenhayn, Hakumen and puppetteers makes that option really risky by default.

 

 

 

Well I finally got around to ordering CP, but man reading this thread is so depressing...  Has CP1.1 actually come to consoles or is it still just arcades?  If not, any chance Makoto might still get some buffs beforehand?  I've been out of the loop for so long lol.

 

If your last time you played Makoto was Extend you will be happy with CP even if it is 1.1. I don't really think she's bad in 1.0 it's only that the matchups against top tier are heavily one-sided if the levels of the players are about the same. and I heard (in this thread, correct me if mistaken, didn't checked their changes) the top tiers chars are getting great nerfs in 1.1. So we probably will have a softer time playing against them.

[Teutonicknight]

3C actually has more uses than j.2C.

I can see why. j.2C out of the blue basically screams "HIT ME", at least 3C hits low. Btw, what does it low profile now without the projectile invuln?

 

Well I finally got around to ordering CP, but man reading this thread is so depressing...  Has CP1.1 actually come to consoles or is it still just arcades?  If not, any chance Makoto might still get some buffs beforehand?  I've been out of the loop for so long lol.

 

Hopefully this is the last time Makoto gets nerfed, but take everyone's word for it when they say Makoto is way better than Extend. I barely played her on a friend's copy and felt the main difference immediately. Seeing her get a couple nerfs in the update still pissed everyone off though, me included. >.>

 

But with her being bad 3 games in a row, it's hard to not be a little bit agitated.

[sharpshooter188]

I think a simple fix would be to bring back her damage. One thing I really liked about makoto (aside from the fluffy tail, cute voice, and awesome under boobage) was she felt like an agile powerhouse. Tough to get in on opponents but if you did, you made em pay for it. The stun time on her impact drives felt powerful because it stunned the opponent for an extended period.

Can't tell you how awesome it was coming down on someone dragon ball z style with a lightning arrow and slam em into the ground and then start comboing them from the bounce.

Her Asteroid C->D (can't remember the move name) seemed like a cool addition but since it looks like a dash punch I was expecting the opponent (cpu, I have not gone online yet cause I'm still figuring out who I want to get serious with) to fly backwards. When they didn't, I thought they had blocked it. Turns out that I hit the guy, it's just that it didn't have any knock back. If the name of the game is corner combos with makoto, Why is it so damn tough to do any decent damage?

Like I said before, she needs a serious buff to either A. Damage B. Hitstun or C. Tricks to get in close.

The 2C launch was nice before because even though it had an INCREDIBLY slow start up, you could use it in a lot of combos cause you could relaunch someone. Since the new system inherent to the game prevents repeated moves, I think 2C could use a speed or damage increase.

My faithful 5CC 6BC > Cyclone uppercut thing was sort of a BnB that I almost relied on. My thumbs are still trying to break the habit cause I used that combo so often. The 5B to 6A starter has potential but is simply too weak in my opinion.

Asteroid Vision B goes over smaller projectiles now which I think is awesome, but again, It's still difficult to make someone pay for it because by the time she gets over to them, they are already recovered or the combo following has to solely rely upon a counter or Fatal to get any kind of damage going. But, again, even if you start up a combo, it takes a GOOD amount of know how to do any decent damage.

Also, her 3C SEEMS to be vulnerable all the way through now. I remember in CS1 it was almost unstoppable cause her hit boxes were so low. In CS2 the first part of the move was invulnerable so I could use that to trick opponents. Now in BBCP, it seems like I'm getting punished whenever almost any kind of move from the opponent comes out.

[sharpshooter188]

Long story short there is simply no pay off for Makoto anymore. The risk/reward has come down to just risk. I digress a bit but bring this up as a comparison. In Call of Duty, a huge thing was quick scoping. That eventually received a massive nerf. So once again, the risk/reward of you having one shot before this guy with a machine gun in a short range and you potentially dropping him with one well placed shot, has become a pretty much given for the opponent since your scope zoom in time takes a LOT longer now. So why don't I just use an AR? They hit long ranges almost as easily and the focus was nerfed significantly as well for ONLY sniper rifles.

So boiling it down is just as I said before. There is no real point to playing as makoto anymore aside from squirrel jugs. However, if you want a good character with boobies, Litchi is now the character to use.

[Angry Guy of DE]

The name of the move is "Cosmic Ray"

The problem with the new moves she received was that they were supposed to be a frame trap tool but they:
A) Can be mashed out of
and B) either barely make her neutral or are actually minus on block...and that's before considering IB.
Cosmic Ray would be a better tool if it functioned similarly to Kagura's Stance 6C that blows through projectiles.  If she could armor through projectiles and close the distance or cause crumple on counter hit as a bonus her neutral issue would be helped in many matches. 
As is, its a weak tool that is only positive on block in OD which should only be used in confirms.
 

[Teutonicknight]

I just want Makoto to be fun to use again. She used to have one of the most interesting playstyles back then, because she had so many options in her combos. But now she became so limited, combined with being unreasonably weaker. They keep removing the fun stuff. Even if Makoto did CS2 damage, I don't think it would make her any more fun than what she is right now.A huge damage buff would just make her artificially good, I wouldn't mind a tiny damage buff but I'd want the main improvements in the other areas like her normals and specials.

 

...and Litchi doesn't compare to Makoto. I'd rather quit the game before switching to her.

[milesw]

https://mobile.twitter.com/ZakOnestar/status/453961453712588800/photo/1/large

[Teutonicknight]

I already posted that one, lol

[OmnixTSC]

However, if you want a good character with boobies, Litchi is now the character to use.

 

I'm pretty sure if our focus was boobies we'd all just be playing Arakune.

[Goldchampion200]

im trying to find the sense in those words but I fail to see it.

[Dark Ranger88]

Yo 3C under Tager's 5D/6A/5C/(and I think Sledge too???) all day (You used to be able to 3C under SparkBolt, which now gets me killed when I do it without thinking...)

 

3C under Jin's D DP followup after you block it. Also 3C on Jin's wakeup when he has 50 heat beats C DP, D DP, and Yukikaze (loses to everything else though lol)

 

3C under Tsubaki's match start 22B. (Then block her 3C attempt at next round start).

 

 

But would it kill them to make j.2C plus on block again? (Really....that move is useless outside of gimmicks)

[OmnixTSC]

im trying to find the sense in those words but I fail to see it.

 

Keep trying. You'll eventually see that there was only nonsense. 

[Teutonicknight]

Keep trying. You'll eventually see that there was only nonsense. 

I can make sense out of it, because Litchi wants to give Arakune those boobies.

...Still Like Makoto's boobies better though.

 

Yo 3C under Tager's 5D/6A/5C/(and I think Sledge too???) all day (You used to be able to 3C under SparkBolt, which now gets me killed when I do it without thinking...)

 

3C under Jin's D DP followup after you block it. Also 3C on Jin's wakeup when he has 50 heat beats C DP, D DP, and Yukikaze (loses to everything else though lol)

 

3C under Tsubaki's match start 22B. (Then block her 3C attempt at next round start).

 

 

But would it kill them to make j.2C plus on block again? (Really....that move is useless outside of gimmicks)

 

Could the old 3C do that? I can't remember, lol... But I can see why they got rid of the invuln, the move was pretty stupid in it's own way, especially the CS1 version someone mentioned. But I still think the move needs a tweak. If 3C had an extra attack at the beginning like Guile's in Streetfighter, I think that alone would fix the move. 

 

As for j.2C, it does need the blockstun back. And maybe reduce the hitbox to just Makoto, since the tail is not hittable during anything else like running and standing. At least I think j.2C's tail is hittable... what does the hitbox look like?

[Angry Guy of DE]

I'm not sure on the hitbox of j.2C but when I did Makoto mirrors with a random, my barrier block went nuts going left and right when I was under her...I didn't block the butt.

[Kev-Ab]

Still Like Makoto's boobies better though.

^This, If we're talking about boobs, Litchi's probably floppy.

But Makoto's boobs looks firm and "youthful"

Anyways I play her because personality and because her combos felt comfortable to me, if only it was about superficial tastes I would have mained Platinum... I even tried back in the day but I never understood her combos.

 

 

I'm not sure on the hitbox of j.2C but when I did Makoto mirrors with a random, my barrier block went nuts going left and right when I was under her...I didn't block the butt.

j.2C is useful in Makoto mirrors, because it beats our anti air options on wake-up, even when is done too soon, the margin to AA the j.2C is really tight.

It feels to me like they only Tested Makoto's attacks against herself, but they tested her combos on Azrael.

[Teutonicknight]

 

I'm not sure on the hitbox of j.2C but when I did Makoto mirrors with a random, my barrier block went nuts going left and right when I was under her...I didn't block the butt.

 

Either the move was precisely centered, or you got crossed up at a split second, lol.

though I think those are technically the same thing. :/

 

And never avoid Makoto's butt. That would be foolish.