[CP1.1] Makoto Nanaya's Gameplay Discussion - When's 2.0?

[MoneyD90]

Seems like a decent change on paper. My hope is it will make other players hesitate a little more, kind of like when you play against hakumen.

[StarGazer]

Since CS2 till this day every change was moving toward bad/boring. Still high hopes for loketest.

[Alasthor]

A simple change of command feel neutral to me. Depending on situations this is at best a quality of life improvement. But it does not feel bad/good at all.

Same as above, wait & see, high hope as everybody have the same thing in mind: the sexy squirrel can only be buff from here... isn't it?

 

EDIT: quick question: what are you waiting for Makoto on 2.0?

 

Personal wish list:

-Before adding move, giving some use to Lander Blow and Cosmic Ray. I don't see those used in combo, OD aside. At best the late feel like a way to make AV safe on guard (like Lightning Arrow feel like an aerial move safe on guard.)

-Some combo route back, including LA.

-May be a little boost to her damage or pressure. At least make her feel more rewarding for the trouble. She struggle a bit in zoning, got low neutral game, and once she put someone to corner, due to low range, she can't really keep a good pressure. And of course she feel average on the damage. So a bit of reward in form of damage or (more interesting and fun) pressure would be welcome for her.

 

-I had this idea of making cosmic ray invincible to / absorbing one projectile... But this is lot of hope. Still definitely an idea I have since... Well, CP1.1 announce.

[Wild Candy]

Hey, it might be a little late. But anyone wanna include me in the Makoto Skype Group. 

 

My skype's memond9. 

 

I was apart of the original Makoto General before the forum got updated. 

 

Thanks for reading. 

[swordsman09]

EDIT: quick question: what are you waiting for Makoto on 2.0?

• Super armor on Cosmic Ray and Landing Blow which will never happen.
• I don't know why but I want to be able to dash off of Asteroid Vision.
• Definitely more damage.
• Being able to jump from Asteroid Vision again.

[MarkusArx]

EDIT: quick question: what are you waiting for Makoto on 2.0?

 

-Cosmic Ray to either have Projectile Invul/1Hit Projectile Armor

-Lander Blow to either have better Frame Advantage or a slightly faster charge time.

-Lightning Arrow to be Overhead and at least do hard knockdown on normal hit.

-5B -1 again or Jump Cancel on block or both.

 

2 out of these four things would be a fucking godsend imo.

[Dark Ranger88]

So, it looks like the parry input has changed to 214D now. Interesting change since it means it'll be easier to do in awkward situations as well as allow it able to be special canceled into. I didn't start playing until the end of CS2, so for any veterans from the CS1 days, did canceling into parry have any useful applications (other than parry loop shenanigans) such as canceling unsafe moves into parry to bait reversals or anything?

 

I don't think they will let us special cancel into parry, even on blocked moves. Obviously there's the parry loop that they probably want to avoid putting in the game again, but theoretically it could give Makoto some infinite/inescapable blockstrings since parry is currently dash cancellable (something like 2A > 2B > 5B > 214D > 66 > 2A etc.). Although I didn't play in CS1, so I don't know if parry was used in pressure at all.

 

Although I'm all for them giving us a free dash cancel on all of our moves   I'll be sure to abuse the hell out of it if they do put it in.

 

An infinite amount of frametraps mixed in with a few squirrel tail command grabs would be really nice Arcsys

[Pharrox]

Based on the input, I can't imagine that it wouldn't be special cancelable. I get the feeling that that may have been what they had in mind when they designed it in the first place.

 

I'm pretty sure parry loop worked because you could special cancel into it, but the way the system reads directions and buttons it would give priority to any kind of button press for a few frames, meaning it could then be canceled into whatever. I've messed around with this a bit. Currently if you set up orb on say, Ragna, you could do something like 462A or 465A, and with the right timing if they wakeup DP you'll get parry, otherwise you'll get pressure. Unfortunately it's one frame too slow to deal with wakeup IB DP making it pretty useless (and stupid impractical to pull off regardless). Adding a button to the parry input removes this ambiguity.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all other dash cancels a fixed length dash forward? I get the feeling its dash cancel properties are to prevent bad input recognition and, once again, the fact that a button is now needed to confirm it means that shouldn't be an issue. I can't help but feel the dash cancel will be removed.

 

Not that I'd be complaining if it wasn't, mind you.

[Dark Ranger88]

You bring up a good point about the dash cancel being there to prevent ambiguity. That very well could be it. I wonder what option selects the new parry input will lend itself to, if any.

 

I hope we get more changes than just this though. Squirrel tail command grab and Acorn Rain DD (Think Chie's awakening super) are still technically options at this point

[Shado_Onikkisu]

i feel like her comet cannon needs some type of upgrade.... its only use is for combos or oki...

 

 

-Cosmic Ray to either have Projectile Invul/1Hit Projectile Armor

-Lander Blow to either have better Frame Advantage or a slightly faster charge time.

-Lightning Arrow to be Overhead and at least do hard knockdown on normal hit.

-5B -1 again or Jump Cancel on block or both.

 

2 out of these four things would be a fucking godsend imo.

 

 

-TOTALLY AGREE about lander blow. the gap for the move during pressure is too big. 

-Cosmic Ray - since this move doesnt have a follow up, then maybe give her some frame advantage?

-Lightning Arrow - i hate how if i get a direct hit, they just emergency tech immediately. you could probably combo off of this if it has hard knockdown.

-5B -1 would be nice. the jump cancel part, you can just gatling into 6A and then do jump cancel on block

[Chaoschao222]

http://www.famitsu.com/news/201408/07058595.html

 

 

Lvl2 drives can be cancelled into special moves. Change was made because non-Lvl3 drives were rarely used.

Neat.

[StarGazer]

Just what i thought, they killed Space parry one of Makoto most interesting moves, it wouldn't hurt to keep the old parry and add the new one but i guess its too much for asw. New drive change is definitely cool though i personally love to have more 'impact' rather than stable damage.

[Yazumatto]

Is parry a completely different move now? It says it's a strike with guard point now. Is that regarding the counter or the attack itself?

That Lv. 2 special cancel on drives is a start. There's still a mile-long list of problems to be fixed but depending on what this exactly entitles, it could be one hell of a start.

[mAc Chaos]

It could be like Bang's Parry. Maybe she just does the attack part and it's just a move with guard point.

[HiagoX]

zzzzzzz

[Ragnarok_F4]

The Lv 2 drive is a weird change, I dunno if it will be good enough. You could cancel 5D[2] into A asteroid or something weird, and Lv 2 stuff have different SMP with the Lv3, so could be something?. Also does this mean you can parry (now that is easier) into Lv2 follow up, and cancel this to something else (special) and without the use of a rapid?

 

I can't visualize right now if it is gonna be that useful or not. This will require good lab time, but hey, no real nerfs so far.

[Ried]

That parry change......I don't know. I don't like the input change, and I don't know what to think of the guard point stuff. If it's just guard-point on the follow-up, then whatever. If they turned it into a special guard-point attack, then it could actually be a strong tool for her, but I think I'd still be sad about them effectively removing something cool from her move-list. Just knee-jerk reactions without enough info atm though. Need to wait and see, but it's hard to quit thinking about it now.

 

Lv2 Drives being special cancellable could be something or nothing, but I guess it's hypothetically interesting? Maybe? Yay? Not sure.

 

The applications on hit would be what, j.D into air DP in the corner as an ender? Sounds bad honestly. She'd need another air special to even make any real use of a j.D special cancel.

Could maybe see some hype stuff coming from 5D(2) into Comet Cannon in juggle situations, but it sounds sort of irrelevant in early ground-strings and not at all like an optimal route.

2D seems like it would have the most practical potential. 2D(2) into Comet Cannon or Shooting Star. Maybe AV B/C? But you can already just combo into 5B 6A 2D(3) and then follow-up with those things anyway. Would that open up anything new?

It wouldn't be relevant for anything in OD either obviously if it's just Lv2.

If it's on block too, that might be more useful? Harder to imagine how that'd work. Would 2D/5D(2) into 214A~C be a true block-string? Don't even know how much block-stun they have so I have no clue.

Could it make 2D(2) a slightly less dumb preemptive anti-air option at that range outside of 6A? Lol.

Still wouldn't be relevant to j.D at all. I really can't see what it would do for j.D period. /givemakotoairasteroidvision

[Myoro]

That parry change......I don't know. I don't like the input change, and I don't know what to think of the guard point stuff. If it's just guard-point on the follow-up, then whatever. If they turned it into a special guard-point attack, then it could actually be a strong tool for her, but I think I'd still be sad about them effectively removing something cool from her move-list. Just knee-jerk reactions without enough info atm though. Need to wait and see, but it's hard to quit thinking about it now.

 

Lv2 Drives being special cancellable could be something or nothing, but I guess it's hypothetically interesting? Maybe? Yay? Not sure.

 

The applications on hit would be what, j.D into air DP in the corner as an ender? Sounds bad honestly. She'd need another air special to even make any real use of a j.D special cancel.

Could maybe see some hype stuff coming from 5D(2) into Comet Cannon in juggle situations, but it sounds sort of irrelevant in early ground-strings and not at all like an optimal route.

2D seems like it would have the most practical potential. 2D(2) into Comet Cannon or Shooting Star. Maybe AV B/C? But you can already just combo into 5B 6A 2D(3) and then follow-up with those things anyway. Would that open up anything new?

It wouldn't be relevant for anything in OD either obviously if it's just Lv2.

If it's on block too, that might be more useful? Harder to imagine how that'd work. Would 2D/5D(2) into 214A~C be a true block-string? Don't even know how much block-stun they have so I have no clue.

Could it make 2D(2) a slightly less dumb preemptive anti-air option at that range outside of 6A? Lol.

Still wouldn't be relevant to j.D at all. I really can't see what it would do for j.D period. /givemakotoairasteroidvision

 

 

Think more of the pressure applications. Could be used for some heavy pressure recycling, especially if it's not exclusive to Drive normals. 

[Arc Raizen]

The only thing I can think of for the Level 2 cancels is Parry lvl 2 > something. However, I have been dreaming of the day when you could follow up Parry without a Rapid.

 

5D might not have enough hitstun to get anything good and even so I'd guess the current 2D(2) is better. Cosmic Ray is hard to say in the corner, but I only see it into Corona Upper for an ender in the corner or something. The only air special is Corona Upper so j.D, Lightning Arrow and Meteor Dive basically get nothing. Lander Blow is so risky to go for anyway it's probably not worth just to cancel into something else. I can't think of anything decent off of Comet Cannon.

 

Unless it allows for some new pressure an mixups due to being cancelable on block and not just hit, then I'm very wary of this change being of any decent merit.

[Chaoschao222]

Hiago posted the greatest supertacular definitely-not-nerfs-or-otherwise-useless Makoto changes

[Shado_Onikkisu]

Lv.2 being special cancelable makes me feel like i can do better pressuring. instead of doing Lv.2 lander blow > F**KING RAPID > 2B. 

[Arc Raizen]

From another thread:

 

Makoto: 

- 5D has less untechable time 

- 2D combos can't be done like before 

- j.2C is cancelable now 

- 214A~D no follow up still

- j.D now wallbounds? Not sure if can be followed up.

- 2D lv2 > 5B doesn't work. 

- Lv2 special moves CAN'T be special canceled 

- 6C > 214A~C > 236D only works on corner

 

 

Basically: I quit.

[Shado_Onikkisu]

 

From another thread:

 

 

Basically: I quit.

 

thats gotta be a troll 

[Master Of Chaos]

The struggle is over

[Arc Raizen]

Because it requires you to have a fighting chance in order to actually struggle?